Boy this is stressful.
I asked around to find other people to share the postal expenses, and a guy asked me this: if we choose the "three books" option, how are the names listed in the book? Only the pledger? Everybody in the same list in order? Or, for example, as in "Sage of the Icelanders" that had a similar "4 book" option and the other three buyers are listed together with the pledger? (this mean that if the pledger is called "White" and the other guy is called "Asimov", the Asimov guy is listed alphabetically in the "W" section)
P.S.: where is the G+ post? I want to re-share something!
Reading the playtest document for the first time:
From where would the 2d6+attribute (+ or - a die) mechanic be familiar? I'm not familiar with most of your early influences, Ron (Champions, et al). Not important, just curious.
How is "Rbaja" meant to be pronounced? Is the 'j' as in "jar," as in "Baja," or like a 'y' (can't think of an example)?
I think a game of Circle Of Hands should definitely be preceded by a lines-and-veils discussion. The "force, cruelty and misery," although historically appropriate, won't be everyone's cup of tea and ultimately doesn't need to be on screen.
I love a text that sends me to my dictionary (or a web search). "Misericordes."
-J
Lookin' good so far!
25% of the goal in less than 5 hours...
MORENO
It seems to me that all the people receiving books should get their names listed, as ordinary backers. I'll have to make sure to contact the relevant backers for that information.
JOHN W
I was referring to the modern Apocalypse World engine for the familiarity of a 2d6, fixed target system, but in terms of influences at the time, that would be a cross between The Fantasy Trip / Champions (3d6) and the Fighting Fantasy series (1d6)
Rbaja = "ur-BAH-ja," with the j as in "jar."
QuoteI think a game of Circle Of Hands should definitely be preceded by a lines-and-veils discussion. The "force, cruelty and misery," although historically appropriate, won't be everyone's cup of tea and ultimately doesn't need to be on screen.
Some text on tuning this to a given table is certainly called for. After all, the game does include mechanics relevant to torture, and execution by pole (impalement) and crucifixion are described very much historically, not Hollywood at all.
Best, Ron
There are worse ways to spend a few idle hours on a Saturday than reading a new game text. :)
Can we have the character sheet referred to on pg.53? "The character sheet features a design on its edge so you can allocate the points and then juxtapose the values with the other character's by arranging the sheets' edges together." For playtesting. I don't see it in the doc. Thanks.
Best,
-John
Ron,
Great game. I am so glad you dusted this one off and shared it with us. I can't wait to see it dressed out in full regalia.
As far as accessibility, I hope you intend to call out the pertinent mechanics for reference on the fly. The presentation reads well from front to back. But as I wanted to refer back to previous portions, finding stuff took some time.
The strong role colors take in the game reminds me of something. Brown. I was reworking The Journal, trying to skin it with the gut-wrenching human experience, and drafted the following.
"One of the first truisms to go under the knife: reality isn't black and white, but shades of gray. This is bullshit. Pure, reified bullshit. Shades of gray are too simple for the complexity of life. Imagine mixing emotional green, mental blue, moral yellow, physical red, and external gray to form the potential for action. The slurry makes a tonal brown. In some ways brown is always brown. Yet, like snowflakes, every individual brown in any particular situation is subtly different. Unique. Worth examining."
Maybe it is simply because I was thinking about it today, but Circle struck me as having a brown feel to it. A real, gritty, banal brown caught between idyllic, abstract, frightening white and black. The PC's come from the brown, and as tally from both sides accumulates and mixes, the brown fades to a tonal (gray) quality. The pentacle of the gray theme being the wrath. Sad in a compelling way.
I have no idea what I'm suggesting here...just raw impressions.
Ed
Hi Ron! Didn't you forget something in this thread? Like the link to the kickstart? ;-)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/847190685/circle-of-hands
I second RangerEd's suggestion to highlight the rules somehow. In present form, the book is a great read, very instructive; but it will not make a good reference at the table. One-page rules summaries at the ends of chapters would be great. Point form and tables. Note sure if that would be part of the upcoming editing process. I'm going to have to create something like this for myself anyway, before I run this; let me know if you want a copy.
I do appreciate that the book does not start with the rules for character generation without any prior context established. That drives me nuts, I don't know why most other RPG texts do that. When I pick up a new game, first I want to know what the game is about, and what play looks and feels like. This playtest document delivers that very well.
-J
Hi Ron
Is there a particular reason why you didn't mention "Anglo Saxon" in the look and feel of the game? When I do a web search on, say, 'spangenhelm' I see lots of images of the Bayeaux tapestry and Sutton Hoo etc - lots of folks with spears, chain mail, round shields, crude iron axes, conical helmets with decorating face plates...loads of the stuff described in the setting text and seen in the illustrations, basically.
I read "Iron Age" and the other setting details and kind of gained a sort of intellectual sense of the setup but, although I appreciate it's historically far later than the Iron Age, I look at Anglo Saxon barrow relics, and Harold and huscarls having at it with spears and axes in 1066 and a light comes on.
Also, with play testing in mind, is this is a good thread in which to ask rules questions?
Best
Gethyn
50%! In less than one day...
JOHN W
QuoteCan we have the character sheet referred to on pg.53? "The character sheet features a design on its edge so you can allocate the points and then juxtapose the values with the other character's by arranging the sheets' edges together." For playtesting. I don't see it in the doc. Thanks.
No sheet yet. Character sheets are best invented through hard playtesting. Check out the video for the Amboriyon/Rbaja chart, which I think you'll see is about as simple as an RPG chart can be.
My designs for the sheet are probably not very good. Either ignore the text about the edges, or make something up that fits the description. It'll probably be better than anything I'm doing.
Nathan and I are planning to make a video to demonstrate some mechanics in action, and you'll see prototype sheets, or things whose functions will become sheet features, in there. But again, your own "oh, I need this" raw functional play-aids on a half-sheet of paper are more important than anything going on in my head right now.
ED
Let's not talk about the final book product at all. What you're looking at has absolutely no relation to the eventual presentation at all; it's a playtest document, period. If you need tables or lists, or a comprehensive "one die gone" list (my first pick), then make'em.
I like your "brown" idea very much. It's especially relevant to Circle knights who rack up both black and white tallies - not falling into the black vs. white trap, but not really human any more either.
GETHYN
QuoteIs there a particular reason why you didn't mention "Anglo Saxon" in the look and feel of the game?
No reason
not, but every time I found myself about to write it, my hand rebelled. Thinking about it now, I realize why: to me and presumably to many readers, that term is incorrectly associated with England and with the east coast of the United States. If I say "Anglo Saxon," the imagery that jumps forward is completely inappropriate, wrapped up with the whole gaudy tangle of Disney King Arthur and more, completely steamrolling its actual Germanic features prior to the medieval period.
In the eventual text I'll either ignore it entirely, put a little note in the opening pages much like the above paragraph, or include some kind of etymology section in the back with this point and others like
knecht in it.
Without wanting to get into a historical debate, I think of 1066 as late Iron Age, at least as far as the region is concerned.
QuoteAlso, with play testing in mind, is this is a good thread in which to ask rules questions?
Absolutely!
Someone's already bent out of shape and canceled their pledge because of "leather armor." And because 17th century buff coats aren't a valid counter-argument.
Fuck 'em.
Anyhow, I want to recommend changing the header "Sex" to "Gender Roles." After AW, any header starting with sex, I expect a game to explore the human reproductive need. The section in the playtest is dealing with cultural aspects of having been born with a certain set of physical equipment and hormones. Not a big deal, just a cue that led me astray for a moment.
Quote from: Ron Edwards on March 16, 2014, 11:00:29 AM
Someone's already bent out of shape and canceled their pledge because of "leather armor." And because 17th century buff coats aren't a valid counter-argument.
I can understand his trauma. Ron, you were one of these children who liked to tell the others that there is no Santa Claus, eh? Some informations should be told with tact and sensitivity...
But I thought that it was studded leather and splint armor who never existed.... my God, there is at lest ONE thing that AD&D got right???
Question... what if I have to buy more than three copies? Can I add more copies (for how much?) or I have to get two different pledges (packages)?
Hey Ed,
The guy is not as bent as I thought, so it looks like it'll be OK.
The section you're talking about includes both gender roles and copulatory interactions/urges, each as a currently unlabeled subset. I didn't think it was long enough to merit breaking out explicitly, but you'll see that it's divided neatly into the two.
I really appreciate your enthusiasm, but I say again, right now isn't the time for text discussion. I've published ten books for seven games I've designed, and I know through bitter experience that focusing on exactly how to say something is destructive, like napalm, on the process of playtesting design. Please, please focus on the game and its procedures. When the time comes, if you want to be a reader for the text as such, let me know and you're in.
Best, Ron
Ron,
Understood. Thanks for the offer. I think I'll take you up on it.
Ed
Hi Moreno,
QuoteQuestion... what if I have to buy more than three copies? Can I add more copies (for how much?) or I have to get two different pledges (packages)?
I don't think I can deal with adding copies to pledges. At present, a pledge gets you one or three. For crowdfunding purposes, it has to stay with those units.
Best, Ron
Is anyone in this thread intrepid enough to consider online play-testing? It's something I'd like to do if I had the support/encouragement of at least one other like-minded individual. Not something I've ever tried before, but I'm rashly enthusiastic.
Hey, Joshua, I'd love to try some online playtesting. I'm new to online play generally, but I figure it will help to try with a game I'm genuinely enthusiastic about.
Quote from: Justice Platt on March 16, 2014, 11:34:22 PM
Hey, Joshua, I'd love to try some online playtesting. I'm new to online play generally, but I figure it will help to try with a game I'm genuinely enthusiastic about.
Cool! I'll start another thread to gather interest and avoid being buried.
http://indie-rpgs.com/adept/index.php?topic=301.0
Quick!