Not to be outdone by the Romans, I'm hoping other 'angel pirates' in this forum will join me in an endeavour to play test this muck-shite hart breaker while it's still as fresh as a spider-hag's first kiss.
Proposal: comment in this thread by making 2 characters if you're interested. When quorum (3 or 4 people including me) is reached we'll immediately plan a google hangout session.
Okay my first character:
Rolling:
BQWC = 5bwr = 5533 (plus 1) = 6644
Traits:
Romantic (+2 C): the delusion of narrative, for oneself and others
Brutal (+1 B +1 C): at home with physical and emotional pain
BQWC = 7647
Homeland
If C is highest, or if the highest score is shared by one or more attributes, then you're from Rolke, because it rounds things out
Rolke is a forested mountain land, with a rocky rough coast that nevertheless includes some maritime communities.
[...]
The coast communities struggle with raids from Spurr, but in developing ships of their own, some have also established consistent trade there.
Professions and social rank
4W = 1 profession
I want a fisherman or sailor so I'm thinking either outdoorsman or merchant
Profession: Outdoorsman
Social Rank: Freeman
Sex
I'm drawing inspiration from a character in Rockbound (a novel set along the rocky romantic coastline I live along now) and that character is male.
Magix
4 meager spell points:
White: Calm elements (3pts)
Black: Summon Demon I (1pt)
Details
rolling
bw=13
Demeanor = b+C = 8 = Blunt – not vicious or insulting, merely lacking in graces
Feature = w+C = 10 = Blaze – another common genetic quirk
Sounds perfect for a brutal romantic by the Sea.
Name
(I have 'David' or 'Uriah' in mind, but I'll see what the list offers)
Freeman have a full name but are often called the diminutive form, if available, with no real distinction between the uses. Some freemen use their region or a descriptive nickname as a surname.
GEBHARD geb "gift" hard "brave, hardy"
* GEBBERT
I contemplate using "Ironbound" (the name of an island community in rl) as his surname if necessary.
Armor and weapons
Freemen are familiar with the staff and with weapons pertaining to their jobs. An outdoorsman is necessarily skilled with the sling, bow, and hand axe, carrying whatever is needed that day.
If necessary, then add a single professional or gentry weapon, usable either on foot or mounted. If in doubt or if you don't care, choose the spear. Such characters are also trained in the use of mail, cone helmet, buckler, and parma.
I'd like Gebbert to know how to handle and throw a francisca.
Key Event
As a youth Gebbert was besotted with love for Frieda, an island woman of extraordinary beauty and wizard of Amboriyon. He worshipped her and thought he was in love. Freida used her magic to defend the island from Spurrish raiders, she used it to save the island from the winter gale. She finally purged the island of all impurity, including Gebbert's family and all his friends and then took herself to the clouds. In this scene he turns his back on the now deserted island village of his youth and decides that light should always be tempered with a little darkness.
Gorgeous character. I always like the way the Details come together.
And one more character to prove I'm serious.
BQWC = 5bwr = 5235 = 6346
Cunning (+2 W): surprise and deception, every time
Ambitious (+1 Q +1 W): toward achieving the social rank just above one's own
B6, Q4, W7, C6
If W is highest, you're from Spurr, where treachery is trust
2 profesions: Merchant and Wizard
Status: Professional
Sex: Woman.
Demeanor: C6 +4
10 Formal – not bowing and scraping, merely according closely to clear class-based social boundaries
Feature: C6 +5
11 Emblem – denotes family, region of birth, or a profession; this is in addition to the Circle emblem ordinarily worn by the player-characters
Name: Dagmar Gerlinde
Arms & Armour: the spear, mail, cone helmet, buckler, and parma.
Key Event:
Raised among Spurrish raiders, Dagmar's powerful personality and secret lore allowed her to assume command of a raiding ship and crew. Her reputation grew such that she was able to trade more than raid, as her silent threat was incentive to offer her favourable terms. All went well until her mercantile pursuits offended the denizens of an isle defended by a powerful white wizard. In this scene her ship and crew are decimated by an avenging silver dragon. She alone escaped with her life.
Tons of fun. I could keep going all day. Your scolding of Moreno scared me straight into not tampering with the order of steps. At first it seemed funny to have to roll for demeanor and feature AFTER assigning traits... but doing so lead to some fun twists and surprise along the way.
There was no premeditated link between the two characters but for my personal obsession with the Sea. None-the-less I couldn't resist leaving open the possibility that Frieda touched them both along the way.
Alright, my first character attempt:
Rolls:5662, so B6, Q7 W7 C3
Traits: Ambitious (1Q 1W) Romantic (2C)
Final: B6 Q8 W8 C5
From Rolke.
Professions: Entertainer (Low), Martial (Low). Social rank-peasant.
I initially wanted to make this character male, just cos that's how he was appearing in my mind, but the picture got more vivid and interesting to me when I started thinking of a woman with these traits. So woman it is.
Magic is a little tough. Glamor seems like a no-brainer, so glamor. I like the idea that this highly talented and extremely ambitious woman can summon demons, so that's in, and I'll add in some seemingly highly useful stuff in Perfect Senses, Warding, and Shimmer-she likes staying alive.
For demeanor & feature I get 1 & 6 respectively, so she is friendly (not what I had been imagining, but I can roll with it) and has an emblem. Possibly something to do with the entertainer profession.
I like the name Gisa from the lists.
For weapons, I'll take the staff, hand axe, round shield, and lots of concealed knives. Since she's from Rolke, a bow as well.
The inciting event: After leaving her family of tinkers & jugglers, she used the glamor spell and lots of head knocking to rise to the top of a bandit gang. She presented herself as something of a downtrodden champion to gain sympathy and support from the local peasantry and freemen, but could manage only a bloody stalemate with the local warlord. She summoned a dancer, lost control, and crawled away from the bloody shambles by sheer luck.
That's great, Justice! Two characters, so let's see the next.
Thanks for the vetting, Ron. I was pretty sure I got it right, but the confirmation is good.
2nd character.
Dice: 5246, so B6 Q3 W5 C7
I'm going to go with Brave (2Q) and Cunning (2W), so final: B6 Q5 W7 C7.
Also from Rolke. For professions, I'll take Priest and Scholar. Social rank is Freeman.
This character will be male. Spells: Heal, repair, soothe, black speech, confuse-I admit I may be skipping ahead a bit, as I'm having pictures of the event in my head, and chose some spells based on that. Maybe I should have gone random.
Rolls are 2 & 2 for features, so I've got a formal demeanor and a blaze. Pretty in line with how I'm picturing him this far.
I'll call him Oskar. (I just read the Meinrad Good example, and discovered maybe a surname? Hadn't realized I duplicated effort so much). So surname-he's from Foulke, so that's the surname-Foulken.
He's a cautious guy, so he has a spear, parma, mail, and a cone helmet.
Event: He was taken under the wing of the former priset in his town, and taught doctrine and literacy. Upon the older man's death, he inherited the position and also the man's secret cache of a few books and papers, which he studied well, keeping his eye out to obtain more. He learned some magic from the texts, and used it to protect and care for the locals. He took it on himself to investigate some nasty happenings, and encountered a lich. Initially, he tried to negotiate, reason, suborn but found he would be forced to bow to raw power. He tried to cobble together something magical to defend his place and people. He failed.
I'm game!
First character
Rolls: 5,4,2 so we start with B6, Q6, W5, C3
For traits we'll take Brutal (+1 B and +1 C) and Brave (+2Q) giving us B7 Q8 W5 C4
Q is highest so homeland is Famberge.
5wits gives us two professions so Outdoorsman and Martial (low) making him a freeman.
Definitely male.
I'm thinking this guy is a lesser relative of a chieftain in Famberge. He helps out with the farming when it's necesary but he lives for the glory and honor of raiding his neighboring settlements. Stealing cattle, pigs, goats, whatever and exacting vengeance on those who have stolen from him and his.
Magic I'm thinking would all be learned since joining the circle.
White- 1pt healing, 2pt armor
Black- 2pt reflect spell
Details: Demeanor-Formal,Feature-mismatched eyes
Name: Gerhardt
Key event: As frequent successful raiders Gerhardt and his tribe created many enemies. One particularly desperate chieftain turned to a sorcerer of Rbaja for his vengeance who inflicted the village with a vile pestilence. In their weakened state they were no match for the vengeful tribe, Gerhardt and others who were capture were set out to be crucified and then turned into undead by the sorcerer. The chieftains daughter had escaped the sacking and was hidden in the forest, she cried out to the heavens for help and in response a Unicorn appeared and had pity on her. It showed none to the attacking tribe and the sorcerer. In the chaos that ensued Gerhardt escaped.
Second character.
Rolls: 1, 5, 4 Starting with B6 Q2 W6 C4
Traits Brave (+2q) and Romantic (+2c) giving us B6 Q4 W6 C6
A tie so he's from Rolke.
6W gives us two professions. I think he's a lesser son of a king or chieftain so not exactly full gentry. I was thinking Martial high as a benefit of birth and the either Artisan as they've had him working on building a castle with the stone masons.
Magic: 6pts
White 1pt Beacon, 2pt Bless
Black 1pt confuse, 2pt curse
Demeanor - Formal
Feature- one piece of bright clothing
Name: Adalwulf Gisbert
Key Event: Adalwulf might be the youngest of the circle knights. He was little more than a child when he first met the young king. In the wars that were fought to establish his kingdom he eventually came up against Adalwulf's father. Battle lines were drawn but before the forces engaged the young king spoke out to the assembled troops and offered all who wished to join him the opportunity to do so. So powerful were his words that Adalwulf immediately felt love (possibly heretical, homosexual, tragic doomed romantic) for the young king and turned against his family joining the kings cause forever after.
Wow! Excellent. This gives us quorum. Lets move to the final phase of the circle...
Divide the characters into the half with higher total scores and the half with lower total scores.
Each of the latter gets +1 to any score the player chooses (this doesn't affect homeland,
professions, details, or anything else). The single character with the lowest total scores gets a
Tally item of the player's choice (see Magic).
Gisa (from Rolke): B6 Q8 W8 C5 = 27
Oskar Foulken: B6 Q5 W7 C7 = 25
-----
Gerhardt (from Famberge): B7 Q8 W5 C4 = 24 +1 (Vernon choose)
Gebbert Ironbound: B7 Q6 W4 C7 = 24 +1 ( I choose +1 Brawn)
Dagmar Gerlinde: B6 Q4 W7 C6 = 23 +1 (I choose +1 quickness)
Adalwulf Gisbert: B6 Q4 W6 C6 = 22 +1 (Vernon choose, also choose a tally!)
So Vernon has three final choices to make and then the circle is ready.
Next step...
The GM does prepare the location and beginning situation, independently of the players.
I'm willing to do this, but if either of you Justice or Vernon are eager to GM just say so here. (Also do the prep.)
I'm going to prep anyway and if neither of you has spoken by the time we meet we'll go with that.
Now, on to scheduling. This could get painful to watch so I'm going to suggest we take it to email. Please email me joshua
at bearsend dot ca.
Once we make a few decisions I'll post them back here so people know what we're up to.
Good?
Good. I'd be willing to GM, but I think you're in a better place relative to the game's aesthetic than I am, plus reviewing other threads makes it clear that I missed some (many!) details in my first read of the game's rules, so...
Email pending.
Interesting. Tough decisions but I think I'll take +1 brawn for Gerhardt. For Adalwulf I'll take +1 C and the tally will be white, convert an unnamed npc into an unquestioning follower with a C vs 12 roll, once per adventure.
Email to follow.
Just finishing our first play session. I want to thank Vernon and Justice for their patience with me. It's nice at least that 'we're playtesting' is part of the social contract so I don't have too feel too embarrassed about fumbling with the rules so much.
As GM I provided the players with the following information:
Quote
The assignment:
Bekselle is a town, in the upper reaches of Rolke's deepest fjord. It is prosperous but insular. The fjord's mouth is a shallow a treachorous delta, nearly unnavigable. Better protected than most of the coastal cities, it has been virtually immune to spurrish incursions and raids. Its prosperity seems entirely inward focussed because it does so little trade with other cities. A travelling priest or herbalist reports that the town teems with healthy children and youths and has even since well before the young kings time. The young king would like to know the secret of their robustness to see if it can be shared to other towns.
Upon reaching the town they met, in fairly short order an elderly matriach named Hulda, a discontent and angry young man name Aghi, and Hulda's oldest son Guntram.
I'll leave it to the others to provide what detail they divined. I'll also get back to this thread after some sleep.
My first impressions. Combat is fast and decisive. However I have a long way to go before I am even close to feeling like I'm running it properly. I was pretty seriously confused about the offence/defence allocations but I felt that Vernon and Justice had figured it out enough for us to get through the relevant combat.
During the climax of tonight's session the two circle knights were pounding on Aghi when a small mob of his followers showed up to assist. We knew from past experience that the mob members were 'nobodies' but I was prepared to treat them as an instantly lethal mob if they chose to attack. Gisa had subdued Aghi and had a knife to his throat. Gerhard was able to give Aghi a kick, preventing him from interfering as Gisa cast glamour and rolled 2d6+ 10 (magically enhanced charm) to order the mob to stand down - an automatic success.
We weren't sure whether casting a spell in that situation was proper. I ruled it was, more because I wanted to see some magic in action than anything else. Without it, they would have had to use natural charm alone against the mob. I'm not sure what I would have had to do if it had failed.
The spellcasting seems perfectly proper to me - not seeing how it wouldn't be, so let me know about that for text-explanation purposes.
Without the spell, e.g. if the player-character hadn't cast it and they tried to fight the mob normally, they would have died. Why weren't you "sure" about that? It is not the Circle of Hands GM's job to preserved the player-characters' lives.
First I'll admit I was certainly having a bit of a lily-livered GM moment re potential TPK on our first session. I was also unsure about whether it was fair to count a mere ten mopes as a full mob vs two well armoured and obviously badass circle knights. (It was previously established that there were only 10 of them, and that they were unremarkable except for their leader who was down by the time they arrived).
The events of role play lead the two knights to split up. Gisa joined the women and was being initiated into some sacred rites that took place in and around a sacred grove. Gehardt had joined a group of 13 disaffected young men who resented the womens' secrecy, (suspecting black magic), and who were determined to disrupt the rites that night. The men had spent the evening wrestling and training with Gerhardt and his presence, as well as much beer, bolstered their courage to attack the women in that sacred place.
The action starts when Gisa in the grove, (having cast Warding earlier that evening), detects the impending ambush. She gives the alarm and the women, not showing too much concern, simply make their way to the edge of the grove and dive into a dark pool for a midnight swim. Aghi's men spread out to the edges of the grove and he starts to cast a spell. Gerhartd doesn't recognize the spell and tries to interfere or delay the casting by questioning him.
Aghi directs 2 of his 12 to keep Gerhartd under control. Two move to grab him but he bashes one down with his shield on a Q v. 12 roll. I rule that this distraction however is enough to prevent Gerhardt from interfering with Aghi's spell casting. [See I'm starting out with this assumption that spell casting can be easily interrupted]. The spell turns out to be Glow which illuminates the grove revealing all parties. Gisa shouts to Gerhardt to attack Aghi and he responds by taking out the other mope, letting himself get sucked into a clash with Aghi, suffering a few BQ.
At this point we establish that Gisa can run across the grove and join Gerhartd and Aghi in about the time it will take for another exchange. I also warn that the rest of Aghi's men (10 more) will likely arrive immediately after.
Since Aghi attacked most recently, it's Gerhartd's move. He opts to go full defensive hoping to avoid injury but keep Aghi distracted until Gisa arrives. Aghi opts to go full offensive. I struggled with the allocation procedure but Vernon and Justice seemed to have a handle on it as follows: you have a pool of offence & defence equal to 2x your quickness, you determine prior to roll how to allocate between O and D. If you spend 0 offence then you will do no damage regardless of roll. Then you add your die roll to each of O and D. So in this case Aghi's Q5 = 10 offence + a roll of 11 for 21 offence. Gerhardt's Q7= 14 Defence + roll of 7 equalled 21 defence. A tie, so no damage dealt either way.
(My original thought was that the die rolls can be allocated as well as quickness which would have given Aghi 10+22=32 offence and Gerhardt 14+14=28 defence.)
Back to the action. As this takes care of both Gerhardt and Aghi's actions I now declare that Gisa enters the fray. She opts to tackle Aghi from the side. I rule she has the advantage die for flanking if not surprising Aghi. They tumble to the ground and Aghi takes enough BQ to reduce his Q to 0.
Gerhartd's turn is next, he kicks at Aghi to keep him from interfering with Gisa who's trying to cast a spell (Glamour) now to prepare for the arrival of Aghi's 10 henchmen.
My doubts about this are:
(1) Should Gisa have been required to completely disengage with Aghi before casting a spell?
(2) Should casting Glamour and then attempting to use it to exert influence a mob in the middle of a fight be separate actions - allowing the mob to act in the mean time?
As it was I allowed the Glamour to come off in time for Gisa, holding a knife to Ahgi's throat, to order the mob to disperse and go home. They eagerly complied. Leaving their leader alone in the sacred grove with the two knights. Aghi immediately began pleading for his life, explaining he never intended to harm the women but sought only to protect them from the influence of black magi---, but concluded his remarks around the time Gisa slit his throat.
My strongest feeling is that I could have maintained more hygienic play (to use an Eeroism) by declaring precisely how many rounds it would take for the mob to arrive. The vagueness about when they would be able to come to bear on the fight left me uncomfortable telling the players that they were out of time to cast spells etc.
After getting all that out, I think I've resolved one problem already by reading the rules. When its your turn in sequence you can cast a spell without fear of interruption UNLESS someone spends B to get in front of you.
Clashes collapse if they are mutual. There is no I swing, you swing back type rounds. So Gisa attacked Aghi sucking him into a clash. He fights back, using up his turn. It's then Gisa's turn again, she cast a spell. It wasn't necessary for Gerhardt to do anything to prevent Aghi from interfering unless Aghi had spent B to jump ahead, then Gerhardt could have done the same or Gisa could have as well.
You did the first clash fine! Gerhardt barely avoided getting nailed, with that full defense.
Quote(1) Should Gisa have been required to completely disengage with Aghi before casting a spell?
No. You can cast spells right there in a fight.
Quote(2) Should casting Glamour and then attempting to use it to exert influence a mob in the middle of a fight be separate actions - allowing the mob to act in the mean time?
You're confounding two things unnecessarily. The spell and then talking to the mob are two different actions. However, I saw no reason in your description to think the mob was
right there and attacking already. Therefore moving directly to her talking to them isn't a problem.
I suggest not establishing "how many rounds," but keeping such information in much more functional units: (i) right on top of you and already attacking, (ii) over there and about to get here, and (iii) way over there, plenty of time to tie your shoes or deploy to wherever you want or whatever.
With that array in mind, it seems clear to me that the mob was in (ii) - you'd said they'd "arrive immediately after." I can see you'd wonder whether "arrive" meant "attack," but considering the knights were no longer in the thick of battle with Aghi, your decision works fine for me.
Here's my advice: as you play through a situation like this, go ahead and
say (i), (ii), or (iii) so the players are right there with you and you will never be in the situation of deciding something consequential in a way which gives you too much story-influencing power. In your c case, saying something like "Arrive immediately after" needs to get categorized in one of these.
The "how many rounds" solution is extremely primitive in comparison and requires running speeds, hex or grid maps, and many other things.
QuoteClashes collapse if they are mutual.
Not quite. I was thinking they would for a little while, but changed my mind (I'll review the text to make sure that's not still in there).
Therefore Aghi's action got skipped. This isn't a big deal - Gisa could have spent B to hop in front and everything would have proceeded exactly the same. Also, frankly, Aghi was fucked - Gerhardt would have had the advantage, and Aghi was at 0 Q, so armed only with naked dice. So it's most likely that any struggling he'd so at that point would have resulted in his death anyway.
Thanks Joshua and Justice, it was a fun evening tech problems and figuring out the rules and all!
My impressions.
We were floundering around a bit at first in a typical way with interactions. I felt the gears grinding in your head a bit Joshua when we first encountered the various NPC's, trying to decide when to go to the mechanics and what the npc wanted out of the situation and how much they were willing to reveal as opposed to . It seemed to go much smoother once we went back to check the rules on the mechanics, realized we should have used a C vs 12 roll right off the bat to set the situation off right. The interactions seemed to flow more smoothly once we did that, not sure how it felt for you and if the smoothness was a result of that roll telling you something or if it was enough that you didnt need to worry about thinking of whether to call for a roll or not on each and every exchange.
A couple things I noticed about the dice. Rolling with advantage is a damn huge swing so yeah you are going to want to turn that around pretty quick. The unarmed contest was much easier with advantage than the armed combat without. The all out defence was interesting, took us a bit to figure that out correctly I think Justice found it in the rules question thread here. Trying anything where you just get one dice, difficult even with good stats and yeah impossible if all you got is a 5. I think we were able to use professions to guide us away from rolling too much. There are a lot of judgement calls going on here when it comes to what to roll and when, noticing those probability differences and knowing what you want from the dice rolls is going to be huge running this game.
The mob situation is tricky. The way things went down it worked out well but if it hadnt, if say the glamor spell and the subsequent C vs 12 roll failed how would that play out? Would they have just rolled over us and the attempt to cast the spell would have been our action or could we have pumped a point of B to try and take initiative and run?
Hi Vernon,
Quoteit hadnt, if say the glamor spell and the subsequent C vs 12 roll failed how would that play out? Would they have just rolled over us and the attempt to cast the spell would have been our action or could we have pumped a point of B to try and take initiative and run?
"Yes," because some of your options are contingent rather than alternates. I'll try to break it down.
If both knights tried to fight the murderous mob, no frills, no special actions, then the mob kills them. Then you get to see what it's like to play wraiths.
Ways to avoid that fate include:
1. Pumping B to get ahead of the action and running. That's a fine option, probably requiring a Q vs. 12 roll. However, I hope you'd used W earlier to learn a bit about the lay of the land, because if not, you're running in the dark in an unfamiliar spot, and that gives your Q roll a single die my friend.
2. It's valid to single out someone in the crowd as a target for an ordinary C vs. 12 roll. Even better if it's someone you can identify a little from what might have been a throwaway detail in earlier play: "That guy who saw me pet the kitten this morning," like that. The GM has to ascend this NPC into named status. If you can make that roll, then this person can do a lot to deconstruct the mob as a game-unit, so it's not acting as a group and therefore isn't a mob any more even if some of them still want to kill you.
3. There's always Wrath, if someone knows it. Many other spells can make a big difference, e.g., True Way solves the problem mentioned in #1. Very thoroughly, in fact, because it takes maximum effect against a group, you simply escape the whole chase without a roll.
(forgot! editing this in: if the Glamor was cast but the C vs. 12 failed against the mob, the Glamor is still working ... and there's another group right there, correct? The women, who are a valid target for a second attempt at a C vs. 12 roll vs. a group.)
Oh yeah, in addition, and in light of some of John's concern about "how much time" for things, one of the unpleasant things about being killed by a mob is that it's not fast. Which would at least provide plenty of time for the things I mentioned. "They kill you before you can try anything" isn't an issue. The GM only says "They kill you" if you're stupid enough simply to try to fight them as if they were an individual.
Right that makes sense, of course it takes my mind down a rabbit hole of possibilities of where things could have gone and have you explaining every possible ruling for every possible eventuality which is crazy. There is a bit of a question in my mind of when is a mob no longer a mob, simple answer as you said when they cant use their numbers to gang up on you. So find a terrain feature (W vs 12 roll?)that forces them to come just a few at a time and then I guess it's a judgement call based on the situation. i.e can enough of them get into the battle to make it a clear situation where they overwhelm the defenders or maybe just a situation where they have the advantage etc.
In this situation the terrain feature I'm thinking of is the pool/waterfall where the women mysteriously disappeared, we didnt fully wrap up the situation and discover what the matriarch was up to. Aghi suggested demons and he fired off a white? spell to kick off the conflict.
QuoteThe context for all these interactions with local people is the Charm vs. 12 roll, which is serious business. It's always made during the first interactions with named people, and it works especially well as parallel rolls to have one's acts well-regarded.
In this thread I'll say that the C v. 12 basic mechanic is one of the things that most excited me during my first read through of the rules. I'm surprised I completely forgot about it at first.
The characters enter a town on a mission to find out why things are going so well; there is no obvious crisis or cry for help. I've predetermined in set up that NPCs who like the status quo are going to be preemptively cautious, even distrusting of Circle Knights, while the discontent will be seeking outside allies.
Never-the-less it wasn't till your characters had met with the third named NPC that I remembered the importance of Cv12. It was, as I had anticipated, kind of magical to defer to the mechanic and then pick up role-play afterwards. No more than magic, its a role-playing revolution for me personally.
Only I'm still unclear on whether all initial Cv12s should start at 1 die. When Gisa got to town she started to engage in her professional trade as an entertainer, attracting the interest of the children. Was "being entertaining" enough to justify 2d6. I didn't even turn my mind to it at the time.
During Gisa's first interaction with Hulda, I felt Gisa was rather condescending and posturing toward the older woman at first. However in the second encounter Gisa approached her with some willingness to learn and I didn't question using 2d6.
Whoops, I screwed up. You guys handled the clash perfectly. Because Aghi fought back when attacked, his intended action was aborted.
QuoteOnly I'm still unclear on whether all initial Cv12s should start at 1 die. When Gisa got to town she started to engage in her professional trade as an entertainer, attracting the interest of the children. Was "being entertaining" enough to justify 2d6. I didn't even turn my mind to it at the time.
During Gisa's first interaction with Hulda, I felt Gisa was rather condescending and posturing toward the older woman at first. However in the second encounter Gisa approached her with some willingness to learn and I didn't question using 2d6.
I'm seeing that behaving in accordance with one's social rank and profession is good enough to put people at ease, enough to turn the roll into 2d6.
It's a really good idea not to prep specific NPCs as "hostile" or "friendly" - just let the C vs. 12 do its job.
Yeah I'd read the rules about C vs 12 initially but it hadnt really clicked for me until I saw it in play. It sounds like something simple, I've played gurps and it has reaction rolls but it's not really the same thing. When we initially were just roleplaying our way around town it seemed normal we were engaging in conversations and the gm had to try and pick out something that might set off a roll that would get the npc's to reveal something. Once we swapped and rolled C vs 12 it seemed much easier, they were more willing to let us in on things (though maybe not everything) and we werent hunting for info as much as interacting. As things worked out Gisa managed to get on the good side of Hulda and the matriarchy while Gerhart got on with Aghi and the mysogynists but if those C vs 12 rolls had gone different ways the situation would have been totally different. We may have allied with one side or the other or been up against both, I think that's pretty cool and not typical in my experience. I like the way it's worded in the rules, the stark contrast between sympathetic if you pass and almost anatagonistic if you fail and I can see why that makes it almost impossible to plan on having character x as the bad guy and character y as the ones you will help.
Thanks Joshua and players for posting this AP, very interesting and helpful to see how play proceeds.
Joshua, something about C vs. 12 rolls; I believe that the GM shouldn't roll this at the very start of a PC-NPC interaction. I'm not sure if you were using them that way. For as long as the characters are "just talking," the GM should play the NPC according to the NPC's own interests and responding to the PC's actions with respect to social conventions. It is only once the PC tries to modify the NPC's behaviour, for example he asks for information or for a favour, that the C vs. 12 roll is made. I think the point is that the roll must follow from committed action and must have consequences. Anyone: let me know if I've got that wrong.
Vernon: yes I agree, as a GM I'm really liking the idea of the C vs. 12 roll, it means I can't plan at all how the scenario will play out. It ensures that my games won't all feel alike, and it ensures that the games will contain some surprises for me, too.
Cheers,
-J
I'm late to the party, but I did want to add one thing that stuck out in my mind (since Vernon & Joshua already covered a lot of the things I was curious/confused about). In the early going, both players made wits rolls to find who the shot-callers in the area were, and that felt...odd. It seemed like a "play can't proceed without this" roll, with the consequences being that the GM has to pull something out of this air to make play go if the rolls are missed.
I'm thinking here of the text about this under "Groups and Scale," which, now I'm re-reading it, feels like I must've misread it, but I can't figure out how. So, how to make this work as not a Library Use roll?
Beyond that, I feel quite cured of my initial impression that the game would have a lot in common with DitV, which is good. The combat system seems terrifying, and I think we've only scratched the surface-I think trying to be really careful about pre/post-roll descriptions will be a big deal, along with emphasizing more color.
Terrifying and so satisfying - wait until you play a character who impales someone with a thrown spear, and on the one hand you're relieved that you won't have to get into one of those scary clashes with that guy, and on the other you're sickened with how straightforwardly you've killed a person with a pointed stick, in a single act.
You guys have noticed that you do not kill anyone with the full combat system engaged unless you (the people playing)
know their name, right? Yeah.
Anyway,
QuoteIn the early going, both players made wits rolls to find who the shot-callers in the area were, and that felt...odd. It seemed like a "play can't proceed without this" roll, with the consequences being that the GM has to pull something out of this air to make play go if the rolls are missed.
I'll talk about this more tomorrow, as my brain is frying out, but the short answer is that the NPCs are going to do important things whether the player-characters know who they are or not.
All right, let's see if I can make sense with this issue today.
1. These are not Call of Cthulhu adventures or Dogs in the Vineyard adventures. The NPCs are not hiding secrets that must be winkled out with rolls. They are going to capitalize on the player-characters' presence in some way - if hostile, they'll enlist their social network to expel or kill the knights; if friendly, they'll do the same to engage and direct them. None of this is particularly covert so much as obvious to a local and maybe not as obvious to an outsider (depending on regional familiarity and social rank).
2. There is no neutrality in this culture - not a bit. A stranger is afforded near-neutral hospitality on the condition that he or she behave in a non-disturbing way and then move the fuck on down the road. Otherwise, you're in that spot and everyone in that spot is going to have something they want - stay or leave, help or be squelched, fight for me or get killed, anything like these and more besides. The NPCs act on these expectations and desires, they do not skulk around saying "shhh!" and getting stuff done in the hopes the characters will go away.
3. Therefore interacting with any of the named NPCs (who will approach for such interaction, period), yields a Charm roll. It has to, if you're playing the NPCs as I'm describing. Given those expectations and desires, it doesn't matter whether the player-character is "trying to charm" him or her at all.
4. Wits rolls are going to be a potential problem for players and GMs who are used to a trail of bread-crumb clues in their games.
i) Their most concrete use is to get familiar with locations and to pick up quickly on obvious social ties like kin and romance.
ii) They are not lie-detectors, they are not clue-finders, they are not a tool to work your way through the "story." A failed roll is not a block or stall-out. It's consequential because a character might not get out of the one-die hole for particular things, or because the worst features of a dangerous location might descend upon him or her, or because, less disastrously, the social environment of the adventure becomes more focused in a different direction than that particular roll would have done.
iii) They are particularly good for helping shape the ascension of NPCs. Using a W roll to find "someone who's good at midwifery," or "an old person," or whatever, even just the guy who makes wagon-wheels and knows how to fix or make shields - all of those are key to seeing lots more named NPCs appear who are not standoffish toward your character, and the W rolls pave the way.
The bread-crumb clues thing is primitive and problematic because no one knows how the adversity of such things is supposed to work. As long as the rolls succeed, then we're all good, but if not, then ... uh? A fight, killing the characters maybe? Do something else? But if the something else "gets us there," then what was the point of rolling for the first thing? Uh?
Plenty of people have arrived at coping mechanisms to deal with this, usually full-on Illusionism based on skilled narration to make the rolls seem important, or skilled improvisional characterization to make whatever happens colorful despite being trivial, or knowing how to "end" a fight when someone is colorfully wounded without it being too obvious that the creature "fled" when it didn't have to. The trouble with such skills is that they aren't necessary here, but the habit of using them is very strong among everyone at those tables, so even the concept of "arrive somewhere, see what's up" clicks into play because everyone just knows the point is to get to the canned set-piece eventually and to bask in the GM's entertainment skills along the way, punctuating it with colorful characterization of your own.
Hmm, that's interesting about only killing people with names. I hadnt conciously noticed that. I did note that it was more difficult for me playing Gerhart to deal out death to Aghi after having dealt with him and his gang but absolutely no care about bashing his unnamed gang members with my shield.
On the C vs 12 roll being done up front, I think our experience supports the notion that sooner is better. We were doing it wrong at first, waiting until we asked something of one of the NPC's and using to see if they gave in felt a lot like hunting for bread crumbs like Ron put it. When Joshua decided it was probably time to roll and we all went back to check the rule and realized it should have been done up front it seemed to propel the game forward. The npc's became more active in my mind anyways, Aghi and his band tried to get Gerhart to give them weapons and help them in taking on the demon worshipping women, not sure that would have moved forward as quickly if we handled it differently.
I'm going to repeat myself for emphasis. The early, practically immediate Cv12 roll, as described in the text was one of the most exciting details about the game to me. I thought "this is a little tiny engine or story reactor". During our play-test, the fact that I forgot about it on entry to the town was sheer bad luck. My NPCs were primed and ready to go, they just needed that roll to clearly tell me which direction they were going to go in. First impressions are bloody important. In a world like the Crescent Lands they are crucial.
When I realized my mistake my first impulse to erase the last 20 minutes of direction-less dialogue and start fresh. I then realized there was no reason not to let the PC's simply choose to go back and make their "real" first impressions a little later in the story.
I completely forgot that we even did the 'wits' rolls when the PC's came to town. I certainly didn't mean them to be necessary in order for the PC's to meet my named NPC's. I'm afraid they were more or less 'roll to notice' rolls with me thinking a successful roll means I need to make up something for them to notice.
What I'd like to do in the future with exploratory wits rolls is have the player describe a thing or person or fact they wish to discover in town. Then roll. Failure simply means failure. And there has to be a significant change in circumstance justify a new roll. Success means they either find what they are looking for or determine conclusively that she/he/it doesn't exist. This essentially makes wits rolls an authorial tool for players with GM creative veto. Not sure if that's what you intended, Ron, but I'm eager to give it a try.
Joshua, I apologize for coming off like that. My misreading of the wits roll rules was the only issue I was trying to get at. No other reflection was intended, and it was hasty posting on my part.
I'm thinking the Wits roll is going to need decent parameters, so people can't "Wits" any damn thing they want into existence. I could possibly adapt the no-new-information concept from Trollbabe into this game, which is to say, you have to work with what's been said and not invent ninjas. Two concepts should be at work for those parameters.
1. If there's a village in the mountains and everyone has iron heads on their spears, then you don't need to use Wits to find the smith, or to find that he's a couple of villages away.
2. If there's a rivalry between the smith and the toughest fighter-guy in terms of village leadership, then Wits will help you spot it - but you need to be acting on something you're observing, not making it up as if you were "scanning for life-forms" looking for social dynamics. The GM can say, "The smith and a tall guy shoot one another looks, briefly," and the Wits roll can help you spot what it's about ("they hate each other") and some immediate social context for it ("everyone else is studiously not getting in the way"). So the skill for the GM is to provide a lot of descriptive material for those rolls to riff off.
I am pleased to find in my sessions that "every score is the most important," as the old Amber rulebook said. It's one of my design goals in general, and in this case I was concerned that the fight-oriented attributes would be the biggies. But with Charm there for crucial orientation for the GM's way to play his or her characters, and with Wits there for crucial orientation for the players' understanding of what their characters know, then these attributes are just as important.
We finished the first adventure, playing on google hangouts tonight.
The details of my prep are available in this (http://indie-rpgs.com/adept/index.php?topic=320.0) thread. Though I took Ron's feedback to heart, I was unwilling to retcon the scenario enough to remove all traces of the supernatural.
The knights regrouped in the guest house and decided to stake out Hulda's long house. While there, Guntram arrived and chastised the knights for having slain Aghi, saying that now Ina is without a husband and her children lack a father. You should do the honourable thing and offer to marry her and stay here. The knights stiffly demurred to this suggestion and returned to the guest house. The women game back looking 'radiantly dishevelled' and dispersed about the town in the early pre-dawn twilight.
The knights spent the morning poking around the grove and waterfall. Interestingly, Gisa, the knight who didn't know how to swim, chose to probe the aquatic cave beneath the waterfall. As we reflected on the rarity of people in this setting knowing how to swim, the players remarked on the notable fact that all the women seemed to be excellent swimmers. Gisa, clinging to the edge of a rocky cave wall edged further inward until the ceiling met the waters surface. Daring all, she took a breath and risked herself to the deep. Welcoming human-like hands grasped her body and gently pulled her forward. Quite understandably she reacted with considerable hostility and kicked out. With some help, she made her way back to the waterfall where Gerhardt was able to assist her with a long pole to escape the pool.
They returned to Bekselle to confront Hulda with accusations of sacrificing the young women of the town to some subterranean deviltry. Hulda, as well as Aghis widow, and a throng comprising the bulk of the town's populatoin were waiting for them. Gisa 'glamoured up' and loudly announced her accusation. Although her roll was positive, I couldn't see it convincing the women of town from disbelieving their life experiences - which was that the status quo, including whatever exactly they got up to in the cave, was by and large positive. A positive charm roll only sufficed to discourage the throng from attacking, instead they quietly turned their backs on the knights and returned to town. (Ina got the opportunity to tell Gerhardt that she was not interested in keeping him around as a replacement husband).
The only open ears to Gisa's speech consisted of a few of the young men who had been part of the fight in the grove the night before. The stuck around to ask more questions about how awesome patriarchy was. The knights on the other hand tried to pump them for information about the secrets of Bekselles prosperity. Both sides were by-and-large disappointed with the outcome of the conversation. The men wandered back to town prepared to resign themselves to a peaceful secure life of bounty and large families.
The players engaged in an entertaining discussion about whether to leave peacefully now, or raze the town to the ground as a gesture of some sort. In the end they opted to live and let live.
(By odd chance they ran into some trouble on the way home, first scuffling with 3 spearmen & a manticore near the sea shore, and later being ambushed by 2 panthers in the jungle. )
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My reflections on the adventure prep & play process.
Had my prep been more orthodox, I wonder if there should have been any combat at all. Without the supernatural beings and secret liaisons in the caves, and without tensions being high the stakes were pretty low. As it was, in this second session, the angry men faction was so reduced as to hardly provide any justification for the violence that went before. This turned the majority of the town against the knights and probably made it difficult to learn much more about the secret knowledge.
As it was, the knights left with very fragmented insight into what was happening in Bekselle.
If I were to prep again an adventure in which the only component was "hidden knowledge" I'm not sure how I'd approach it differently. I'll have to think after a little more sleep.
* note for further discussion - the task resolution. Eg. when Gisa was doing some rock climbing on a slippery cliff. I felt the craving for a finer tuned instrument than a 2d6 +Q (which was 8) - meaning she could only fail on a 3 or less.
Thanks Joshua, It was fun and I think it overall went well.
I did feel a bit like we were in an investigative "Call of Cthulhu" mystery adventure and we were kind of trapped in a traditional mindset of finding clues to learn out who the big bad guy was. I'm glad it didnt turn out that way, nobody was really the bad guy here. The most interesting aspect of play was the discussion at the end where the characters had an inkling of what was going on, suspected dangerous magic was in play and could either attempt to wipe it out by using destructive magic and let the town burn (seriously some of those spells are nasty) or accept the situation for what it was and go on peacefully. I did feel we were free to choose whatever we wanted to do with the situation and it wasn't predetermined which was the correct way to resolve it. Not sure how much of that was on the rules and how much was on how Joshua ran it.
We discussed it a bit afterward and I've read over the thread discussing the setup and the prep work that brought it up. It did create a different situation than I was expecting in this game. Much more subdued, little outward threat and more of a subtle judgment of what was going on. Not sure if that different tone was intended with the scenario creation tools or just a unexpected twist of how the dice fell. With just the one element and it not being overtly confrontational it was definitely a change up. In a comic book or a tv series it would feel like a little side episode that cools off tension between big revelations.
We played out a couple of the combat test scenarios afterwards. We didn't take full advantage of the combat system, we didnt pump B at all but we did see once again advantage is huge and even a Manticore shouldn't charge up hill into a spear. It could have been messy but an all out attacking knight vs an all out attacking Manticore left one dead Manticore and a slightly scratched knight (took 4 BQ).
The one rule question we had was about healing from injury. One of our knights had taken a single point of damage earlier which resulted in taking the 1 damage to Q (odd numbers start on Q). The healing rules only mentioned healing based on how much B damage had been done so we ruled it was like regaining B for cast spells. Rested up a bit and next scene he was ok.
That's right. Taking a single point of real-injury BQ is the system's version of "just a scratch."