[Sorcerer] Lasting damage bigger that next round damage

[Moreno R.]

This did come up checking a special damage (lethal) attack: reading the table on page 107, special (lethal) damage works like this:
2X for next action
X + demon's Power lasting

So, if the number of victories is lower than the demon's power, the result is that the lasting damage is bigger than the short term damage.

In this case, in the following action we use the lasting damage (because it's bigger) or we use the lesser damage anyway (meaning that the penalty to the rolls increase in the second round and the opponent could stand still and act for 1 action, and then drop to the floor unconscious)?

In general: the lasting damage is suffered right away, but in the next action is usually superseded by the bigger next action damage, or is suffered only AFTER the next action?

[Ron Edwards]

I have no idea what these questions mean. Terms like "lesser" make no sense at all.

First, yes, sometimes lethal Special Damage yields that particular result, that the lasting penalties are higher than the temporary ones. That is no big deal.

I suspect you may be mis-applying the damage rules from the start. Let me explain. A character fails to defend against a person punching him, who succeeds with four victories. The rule for a punch is a single lasting penalty and four temporary penalties.

So the next round, the person is suffering five penalties (1+4). Assuming nothing interesting happens to him, on the following round, the four temporary penalties vanish and he is suffering from one (1).

Do not think of temporary penalties as the total, with some of them being lasting. The two types of penalties are additive in the brief period during which the temporary ones apply.

So in your example, let's say the demon's Power is 7 and the number of victories is 3. The target has six (2x3) temporary penalties and ten lasting ones (7+3), for sixteen total. The next round (assuming as above), he would have ten "only."

Use the numbers on the right side of the sheet. Use two paper clips of different colors. Put one color on the current lasting penalties. Put the other color on the total penalties, which is to say, whatever the temporary penalties are adding at any given moment. This method is foolproof and has the added benefit of teaching everyone the rules.

[Moreno R.]

Oh, thanks! You were right, I was misapplying the damage rules.

The problem with the paper clips method is that playing by hangout there is no physical character sheet to hang paper clips on... 

[Ron Edwards]

Everyone playing by hangout should have a personal character sheet, for real, with them, is what I say.

[Moreno R.]

I used physical sheets in addition to the online informations the first play-by-hangout I played (with Apocalypse World), but I stopped seeing the problems caused by the duplication of the records: the two sheets always have different informations at the end, because during the game there is not a lot of time to keep notes so people write only on one of the two, and the other is not updated...  but when the information is copied and pasted it's the online one that gets updated, not the other one. The online one is the one that other people can read, too, so it's the one that should be keep current. During the game keeping track of damage, times, durations on screen (to allow other people to see) and on paper at the same time is a nightmare, it never works. Even the diagram in the back is drawn online, drawing another on paper means having two different diagrams for the same character...

Talking about how to keep track of the penalties: what about the NPCs? How do you keep track of the NPC's damages in practice?(in face to face role-playing, doing that in hangout will be a different problem...)

[Ron Edwards]

I usually use sticky notes or half-size index cards for NPCs, spread out on the table in front of me. When I roll their dice, I gather the resulting roll on or next to the piece of paper, so each one has a little pile of dice on it. When something happens to them, I scribble it on the note. Damage usually gets noted in two running columns, with the summed value accounted for by circling horizontally.

[Moreno R.]

Apart from the most important NPC, how much you detail the stats of less-important but still diagram-worthy NPCs? With three PCs I am looking at around 20-30 named NPCs.. How many do you stats usually, and when you have a conflict with some no-stat PNCs and fall back (I imagine) on "generic" or "normal" stats for a normal person (or a normal policeman, thug, university professor, children, dog, etc.) how many dice you use?

[Ron Edwards]

You are really falling back into old habits. You sound like someone prepping a Vampire game.

All named characters are placed into a list, or table if you want to look at it that way, with their numbers and descriptors, Telltales if they're sorcerers. That's all. All demons in the game get their own full sheets, obviously.

when you have a conflict with some no-stat PNCs and fall back (I imagine) on "generic" or "normal" stats for a normal person (or a normal policeman, thug, university professor, children, dog, etc.) how many dice you use?

Those are furniture. Either the "conflict" is not much more than Color and therefore handled by looking at the descriptors with no roll (which is the vast majority of such situations), or they're hostile furniture and handled with a simple roll of 1-3 dice.

All of the above is nothing but the rules as written. You are sliding right into very dysfunctional habits when you start worrying about the Stamina score of a random dog during play.

[Christopher Kubasik]

Apart from the most important NPC, how much you detail the stats of less-important but still diagram-worthy NPCs?

I'd like to add something to Ron's point:

When you're setting up, you have NO idea yet which of those NPCs on the diagram are the most important. Their importance (small or great) will be revealed through play.

A parallel example from TV might (or might not!) help illustrate:

I've been watching BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER straight through for the first time. And I've been tracking the history of the production as I watch. Here is something fascinating: the charters of Spike, Anya, and Tara were all supposed to be on the show for 2 episodes when the actors were hired. The actors and the characters clicked -- and each one of them hung around for several years.

I'm a big fan of BREAKING BAD. (I highly recommend it!) Jesse Pinkman was supposed to be dead by the end of season one. He wasn't considered a central part of the series for the first half of the season. Guess what? It turned out he was Very Important to the show.

The character of Chief Tyrol in SyFy's BATTLESTAR GALACTICA was essentially a glorified background extra and wasn't going to last . But Aaron Douglas brought out some much energy he ended up lasting the whole run of the show.

There's this myth (especially popular in geek culture, and made horribly manifest in RPG play) that everything is and should be planned out ahead of time to be real or valid. But this isn't the case. Discovery is part of the creative process, even while making. In the creation of a story that will be made week by week (as in RPG play) there's no way to know which characters are going to click or fall to the wayside. It will all depend on how the Players respond and act via their characters, as well as how you fall in love with the possibilities of characters you discover as you go.

So, as Ron said, have all the Diagram NPCs ready to go. If the Players thought they were important to put on the diagram they obviously matter in some way. And you'll only find out in what way by being open to finding out.