[Sorcerer] Dice system question

[Tom]

Ron, how do you intend the "equal dice eliminate each other" to be resolved? Just highest dice or all of them?

I'm asking because it can make a difference to the number of successes. Imagine:

10, 8, 8, 6
vs.
8, 5, 3

If only the highest dice eliminate, then this is one victory (10 > 8). But if the 8 gets eliminated, then it's 3 victories (10,8,6 > 5).

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Tom,

Don't eliminate any dice if there's no tie. By "tie," I do not mean any & every die on the table. I mean the highest value di(c)e for each roll.

In your example, there is no tie. The similar values within the two rolls are completely irrelevant. A wins with a single victory.

The only time you eliminate any dice is when the highest value is the same for each roll. And you only eliminate the top die of each roll. (Unless you have to do it again, but people are over-hasty, so check first.)

10 10 8 5 3 vs. 10 9
becomes
10 8 5 3 vs. 9, so the first pool wins with a single victory

10 9 9 9 1 vs. 10 10 4 4 4
becomes
9 9 9 1 vs. 10 4 4 4 so the second pool wins with a single victory

10 5 4 3 2 1 vs. 9 5 4 3 2 1
becomes nothing - it's not a tie in the first place, so the first pool wins with a single victory with no eliminations

Do not ever try to examine entire rolls against one another in any complicated way like that.

Just look for the highest value in each pool. That's all.

Best, Ron

[Tom]

Good, then I've been doing it right all the time. :-)


I'm just looking for some creative ways to generate more victories on rolls without changing the entire system. The system (see my analysis) strongly favors close calls - single victories, maybe 2. But in combat, for damage, I'd rather have a few more, without just scaling up all damage values. That's the background to my question.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Tom,

Consider combinations and set-ups rather than raw victories on single rolls. Or in principle, consider that not one person on this earth who's been in an actual fight wants to engage in a fair one.

Consider rolls which reduce an opponent's dice before a blow is struck, effectively sneaking up on distracting them. Even telling them to do something which they absolutely don't want to, can be a great tactic - they don't have to do it, of course, but it means they'll operate at a penalty for the next roll, like defending against your attack.

Consider knockout/take-out rolls opportunistically, i.e., when they're available due to a sudden drop in dice due to a stunning hit or to some other effect. In other words, when all of a sudden you are surprisingly rolling eight dice to one - instead of planning your big ol' smackdown hit, you are simply already in the middle of doing it.

Consider demon abilities in the context of the above points. Easy ones include Psychic hits or plain old Cloak ... or Shadow! Didn't think of that, did you? Or what a sudden swarm of birds will do to a person's concentration on your attack with a crowbar. Once you get good at that sort of thinking, then it's finally time to review the rules for Daze, Confuse, and Fast very carefully. Properly applied (and especially with good set-up actions), a person with ordinary Stamina can put down three or four people in a single round.

But what characters can't do in Sorcerer except for the biggest most evil demons, is waltz into a situation and fling about take-downs right off the sheet. This is the opposite of White Wolf combat design (which is really Shadowrun), to name the most obvious comparison, and for that matter most games, in which the character is at his or her most dangerous before anything happens, and can only be changed for the worse if anything happens.

Sorcerer works very differently. Don't look at the sheet and say, "This is what I can do at my peak." It's a set of components which can be leveraged into much, much higher pools against much, much lower ones in the context of a variety of immediate situations.

Best, Ron

[Tom]

Thanks. I'd like to quote that "not one person on this earth who's been in an actual fight wants to engage in a fair one." part in my [explorers] rulebook. Because it's so spot on.

It is a change of attitude for the players, though. In most systems, your sheet shows your combat abilities.