[Circle of Hands] Rules questions

[Ron Edwards]

It's in there and unambiguous as long as you're not looking at Gray Magick at the same time. You don't have to assume, it says that players choose the tally items.

Rolling for NPCs is the best way to go, though, which is why the numbers are still there, but I need to say that explicitly in Chapter 2.

[Nyhteg]

Hi Ron

Question about the spell Itch:

Itch (p). The target person or beast sustains 1 injury to Q, beginning with and accumulating per physical action he or she takes throughout the duration of the spell.

So is that 'accumulating damage' 1 per action for the duration (1Q, 1Q, 1Q, 1Q...) or is it 1 for the first action, two for the second etc (1Q, 2Q, 3Q, 4Q...)?

Cheers

G

[Ron Edwards]

Itch: one per action - which is bad enough!! I'm beginning to think this spell is a killer. It's supposed to be pretty bad, as the damage is injury and doesn't dry up and blow away with scene transitions, but throw an Itch on somebody in a fight and it's almost a death sentence. Maybe it needs a cap.

[Nyhteg]

Spend B to cancel?

B vs 12 roll each round to act without taking damage?

Muscling through the discomfort, as it were. Cast an Itch on a human and they're going to be inconvenienced at least but could still cause trouble. Cast it on a bear or worse and it'll most likely not even notice.

Do you count the damage from Itch as unarmed/non-lethal or as a full on wound?

G

[Ron Edwards]

Good suggestions, going into the bin of options. I'd like to reduce the necessary mechanics management as much as possible, so that's a factor too.

As in the spell description and as mentioned above, Itch does real injurious damage. As with Mind Rip, I want to avoid writing these spells as open for comedy.

[Nyhteg]

I like that the  damage is to Q...viciously incapacitating.

Is it right to assume that once Q hits 0, the subject is rendered unconscious or otherwise helpless and therefore no longer taking physical action, thus no further damage?

I see your concern on mechanical overhead. That said, if it's made the 'casting player's' responsibility to track when Itch is causing damage to an opponent, the difference between calling for a point of damage and calling for a B roll is possibly slight. It's still an extra roll to be made though. The idea of having to choose to take a hit to B to cancel the spell or trust to luck to try to shrug off the effects each round seems a pleasing tactical aspect to me; both as a caster and as a target.

G

[Moreno R.]

Page 54: "If either B or Q is brought to 0, but the other is positive, then the character is visibly fatigued and battered, and unless some remarkable other circumstance is at work, is considered to be at a disadvantage.

So, Itch alone can't stop a character. The victim is slowed down (if he/she doesn't spend B to jump to the top of the actions order) and is at a disadvantage, but he/she still can do what he/she wants.

Itch associated with other attacks, though...  B drops fast, in these conditions...

By the way, what happen when Q is reduced to zero? All the damage is subtracted from B, or it's still halved?

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Moreno,

If either B or Q is reduced to zero while the other is still positive, then damage received is still halved. The part that goes to the attribute at zero is "lost."

[Moreno R.]

It's in there and unambiguous as long as you're not looking at Gray Magick at the same time. You don't have to assume, it says that players choose the tally items.

No it doesn't. I checked again.

The draft says that the one single tally item that one PG gets is chosen (page 28):The single character with the lowest total scores gets a Tally item of the player's choice (see Magic).

Nothing is said about this on page 62-63

On page 64, talking about NPC wizards: For perspective and contrast, non-player-character wizards, i.e. "normal" magic, are limited to all spells of one color (Rbaja wizards also know white spells with points equal to W, which they cast with Warp.) Their Tally results are always determined randomly

Nothing is said about PCs

-----------------
Other questions:

Oaths (page 64): To end the oath during the adventure, either fulfill it or formally renounce it. Unfulfilled oaths
remaining at the adventure's end result in permanent -1 to an attribute of the player's choice.

1) If the character formally renounce it, does it lose the attribute point or not?
2) How do they formally renounce it? They can just say "I formally renounce my oath" or something like that ot it's more complicated?

---
Page 28: Divide the characters into the half with higher total scores and the half with lower total scores.
Each of the latter gets +1 to any score the player chooses (this doesn't affect homeland, professions, details, or anything else).

3) Let's say that one player choose a +1 in Wits. The text says that it doesn't affect "anything else", so it should not affect the number of spells. But at the start of a new adventure, the players must choose a new character, and When you choose the new character, if he or she is not a wizard, you may trade out the spells as you like, maintaining points equal to Wits, always both white and black.. So, does it affect the number of spells or not?

--
Action order after the first round:
4) The players only declare actions in the beginning of a fight, then they follow always the same order (if nobody spend B to jump to the top of the list), no matter what they do, right? So you don't need to have a free and clear phase for the rest of the conflict, and you can declare your action when it's your turn, and not before?

So, when at page 66 it's written:
Absorb Spell, Reflect Spell, Warp Spell, and Bless/Curse may be cast either:
toward a currently-active prolonged spell
toward any spell in the moment of its casting
In the latter case, the caster must be acting earlier than or tied with the targeted action in the
ordering sequence.
Re-do all this: in fair and clear, you see that the other guy is casting a spell, so say "vs. spell," or
"vs. [color] spell" if you're a wizard; a spell is only named when it goes off, but Reflect Spell
(which needs a new target) can specify at that moment.

5) this means that in the first round if you want to cast a spell or a counter-spell you have to declare it beforehand, but not the next time you act in the same conflict? So how can you declare a counter-spell acting before an instant spell, if the caster of rthe spell has already acted (launching the spell)? Even if you spend B, you are too late...

6) If I spend a B point right after doing an action, and nobody other do, can I do two consecutive actions? (like, casting two spells one right after the other). If I spend another B right after that and nobody else does, can I add a third consecutive action? (like casting a third spell right after the first two)

[Ron Edwards]

You've misunderstood me about the tallies and I'm too tired to argue about it. Just do what the rules say, all right?

Oaths

1) If the character formally renounce it, does it lose the attribute point or not?

No.

2) How do they formally renounce it? They can just say "I formally renounce my oath" or something like that ot it's more complicated?

The simple announcement is enough.

3) Let's say that one player choose a +1 in Wits. The text says that it doesn't affect "anything else", so it should not affect the number of spells. But at the start of a new adventure, the players must choose a new character, and When you choose the new character, if he or she is not a wizard, you may trade out the spells as you like, maintaining points equal to Wits, always both white and black. So, does it affect the number of spells or not?

Good question. It seems inelegant to force the player to remember how many points were in spells as a different variable from Wits. And the whole point of providing the +1 in Wits is to benefit from it ... my main concern was not to add professions in case Wits went to 5 or 9. I think I'll specify that professsions don't change but you do get the added spell point.

Action order after the first round:
4) The players only declare actions in the beginning of a fight, then they follow always the same order (if nobody spend B to jump to the top of the list), no matter what they do, right? So you don't need to have a free and clear phase for the rest of the conflict, and you can declare your action when it's your turn, and not before?

Right. I'll address your #5 later, I'm too tired at the moment.

6) If I spend a B point right after doing an action, and nobody other do, can I do two consecutive actions? (like, casting two spells one right after the other). If I spend another B right after that and nobody else does, can I add a third consecutive action? (like casting a third spell right after the first two)

Yes. You'll find out in play how risky that is.

[Ron Edwards]

So, when at page 66 it's written:
Absorb Spell, Reflect Spell, Warp Spell, and Bless/Curse may be cast either:
toward a currently-active prolonged spell
toward any spell in the moment of its casting
In the latter case, the caster must be acting earlier than or tied with the targeted action in the
ordering sequence.
Re-do all this: in fair and clear, you see that the other guy is casting a spell, so say "vs. spell," or
"vs. [color] spell" if you're a wizard; a spell is only named when it goes off, but Reflect Spell
(which needs a new target) can specify at that moment.

5) this means that in the first round if you want to cast a spell or a counter-spell you have to declare it beforehand, but not the next time you act in the same conflict? So how can you declare a counter-spell acting before an instant spell, if the caster of rthe spell has already acted (launching the spell)? Even if you spend B, you are too late...

All that text escaped editing. Ignore the whole part that says "re-do all this," those were the notes that resulted in the text above it and were supposed to be deleted.

The text refers to the first bit of action, during fair-and-clear.

Later, which is what you're asking about, is more simple than you're imagining. Let's say your character knows Counterspell. Some other character is casting a spell and you think it's going to be a bad one, so you pump B to get your action concurrent with his or her spell, and cast Counterspell – both spells are being cast.

This is a little bit different from weapons, because in that case, you are pumping B to get in front of someone's action, whereas here, you're pumping B to get right there with his or her action. But you will find that distinction very easy to manage in play.

Yes, you can pump B to get in front of a spellcaster too, for a different (non-oppositional) spell or for any other action. Right now we're only talking about oppositional magic.

[Moreno R.]

Later, which is what you're asking about, is more simple than you're imagining. Let's say your character knows Counterspell. Some other character is casting a spell and you think it's going to be a bad one, so you pump B to get your action concurrent with his or her spell, and cast Counterspell – both spells are being cast.

1) You can do that (pump B to get the action concurrent with the spell) after the opponent specify the spell cast (or if he say "I cast hitch" instead of "I cast a spell"), or at that time it's too late?

2) The opponent can change his action at that time (after you have pumped B) as in the "fair and clear" phase?

3) The opponent can pump B too, to cast his spell before your counter-spell could stop it?

More in general, I am having some difficulty visualizing how the declarations works and who can act before what:

4) For the first actions, there is the free and clear phase, everybody commit to an action: does this mean that you can't pump B in that phase without declaring it in the Free and clear?

5) After the last character has acted following the free and clear declarations, the "spotlight" return to the first character who acted (if nobody pumps B to act before him) that declare what he is doing now: The question is: when it's too late to pump B to act before him?

[Ron Edwards]

1) You can do that (pump B to get the action concurrent with the spell) after the opponent specify the spell cast (or if he say "I cast hitch" instead of "I cast a spell"), or at that time it's too late?

This doesn't make much sense to me. I can wrap it into a form that does make sense to me, and answer "no it's not too late," but I don't think that's safe because it may be answering a question you're not asking.

Perhaps the text and my thinking are not quite aligned at the moment. As I currently see it, spells are named at the moment of being cast, and that would include the initial fair-and-clear announcement as well. I remember there was some text to the contrary at some point, but if that's still in there, then delete it.

2) The opponent can change his action at that time (after you have pumped B) as in the "fair and clear" phase?[/quote]

No.

3) The opponent can pump B too, to cast his spell before your counter-spell could stop it?

No. You pumped B to get into that person's action, not to pre-empt it, so that action is still at the top of the list. The opponent may only pump B into the spell to strengthen it.

More in general, I am having some difficulty visualizing how the declarations works and who can act before what:

4) For the first actions, there is the free and clear phase, everybody commit to an action: does this mean that you can't pump B in that phase without declaring it in the Free and clear?

There's no pumping until the sequence begins. You can pump yourself to the front of the line after all the announcements are finished.

5) After the last character has acted following the free and clear declarations, the "spotlight" return to the first character who acted (if nobody pumps B to act before him) that declare what he is doing now: The question is: when it's too late to pump B to act before him?

The rule is, once the dice are being rolled, then it's too late to pump yourself ahead of them. Until then, pumping puts you in front of that person's action.

[Moreno R.]

This is list of question from my first playtest, HERE

1) what happen if you cast "Stimulant" (2,b) two times in a row? Do the effects add to each other, do the second one take the place of the first, or what?  (what I decided provisionally: you can't add "stimulants" spells, only the first one count, if you are unsatisfied with the results, you can't simply cancel the spell and cast it again, you have to cast a counter-spell to cancel the first one)

2) One player said that his character would cast "Righteousness" every morning on both his armor and his sword. I decided provisionally that this was allowable, but only the color points from the casting in effects at the start of the adventure would be counted. Is this correct?

3) One player noticed that it's impossible by the game's rules to have a non-wizard gentry with Wits greater than 4: is this correct?  (we agreed that we all liked this intrinsic comment in the game rules about the intelligence of the ruling classes)

4) By the rules, it's possible to choose as combinations of professions something like "Farmer + Martial Arts (High)", or any other "peasant+Martial (High)" or "freeman+Martial arts (high)" combination, but in these cases there is nothing about the weapons and armor used.

5) One of the character had Wits=10. I didn't even made him roll when it was time for a Wits roll with 2 dice against 12. It's correct?

[Ron Edwards]

1) what happen if you cast "Stimulant" (2,b) two times in a row? Do the effects add to each other, do the second one take the place of the first, or what?  (what I decided provisionally: you can't add "stimulants" spells, only the first one count, if you are unsatisfied with the results, you can't simply cancel the spell and cast it again, you have to cast a counter-spell to cancel the first one)

That's a question I'll have to think about. My initial response would be to permit the second spell and have everything about each casting apply - e.g. lose 4 BQ at the end of the duration. Note that one has spent 4 B on casting the spell. I assume the player was gaming the system and attempting to rest after the casting, so that the spent B would return. Or something like that, right?

As I said, I'll think about it a bit more, but I have given thought already to the more general question of gaming the dusk/dawn cycle and the "B comes back per scene" rule. That hasn't made it into the text yet.

2) One player said that his character would cast "Righteousness" every morning on both his armor and his sword. I decided provisionally that this was allowable, but only the color points from the casting in effects at the start of the adventure would be counted. Is this correct?

Yes! Good anticipation of the planned rule.

Also, in this, the player is doing nothing wrong. Setting up a nice stable of prolonged spells each day is the obvious life-style choice for the thinking wizard.

However - the B spent for such casting must be spent all at once - you can't string it out in alleged 15-minute steps and claim the B came back between each one.

3) One player noticed that it's impossible by the game's rules to have a non-wizard gentry with Wits greater than 4: is this correct?  (we agreed that we all liked this intrinsic comment in the game rules about the intelligence of the ruling classes)

Yes. A little nasty classism on my part, there, but it has nothing to do with genetics in case anyone was wondering. The social rank system is more fluid than it looks, as pointed out in the text. My comment is more about how being raised in the gentry doesn't teach anything else, and the W result is emergent rather than inherent.

(I hate nature/nurture thinking and defy it in all of my game designs.)

4) By the rules, it's possible to choose as combinations of professions something like "Farmer + Martial Arts (High)", or any other "peasant+Martial (High)" or "freeman+Martial arts (high)" combination, but in these cases there is nothing about the weapons and armor used.

The arms and armor are set by social rank, not profession, so the farmer + martial high character must have some interesting reason for his or her skills ... either a former gentry or professional who's turned to the peasant life, or a peasant who gained such training in interesting circumstances. I think that a player who chooses professions so far apart from one another can be relied upon to come up with a cool (brief!) back-story for it.

5) One of the character had Wits=10. I didn't even made him roll when it was time for a Wits roll with 2 dice against 12. It's correct?

Correct. It's awesome to roll a 6. But do be a real dick of a GM regarding one-die rolls when they apply.