I'm guessing that this subject ie either,
A) Covered in TFoB
B) Discusssed at length in previous threads
C) A&B
If so apolpgies ect, any hombrew solutions or links to previous threads while I wait for TFoB would be greatfully recieved and very useful for my Savaxen campaign.
See Pgs 48-49 in the book regarding the flaw "Rage" which allows a person to go berserk. Extrapolate from there to create a "Berserker" warrior.
Some fun "facts": true berserkers got their name from the phrase "baar sark" or "bear skin" because they fought "wearing nothing but the skin of a bear over them, so as to intimidate their oponents with the size and stiffness of their manhoods".....I actually read that once in a book about Norse warriors. Its probably the most amusing single quote I've ever encountered, and at least the bear skin part is true.
Also they screamed "Would you like to making fuck, Berserker!" as they charged into battle.
QuoteAlso they screamed "Would you like to making fuck, Berserker!" as they charged into battle.
That combined with the stify would be enough to win most battles.
Cheers I didn't know there was a rage flaw, I'll check that and see what I can do with it thanks Tash.
I thought I saw this flaw/gift in the creature's book...Of Beasts and Men
Quote from: TashSome fun "facts": true berserkers got their name from the phrase "baar sark" or "bear skin" because they fought "wearing nothing but the skin of a bear over them, so as to intimidate their oponents with the size and stiffness of their manhoods".....I actually read that once in a book about Norse warriors. Its probably the most amusing single quote I've ever encountered, and at least the bear skin part is true.
That's something of a mistranslation. It's
bare rather than
bear, and
sark is an ancient term that basically means
armor, so "bare of armor", or literally "they wore no armor". Having said that, it's not impossible that some might have worn bear skins at times, but that's not what the name means.
Brian.
Thanks for the correction, I'm not sure what book I read that in but ts entirely possible they got some pesky little detail like the translation wrong :)
Quote from: Brian LeybourneQuote from: TashSome fun "facts": true berserkers got their name from the phrase "baar sark" or "bear skin" because they fought "wearing nothing but the skin of a bear over them, so as to intimidate their oponents with the size and stiffness of their manhoods".....I actually read that once in a book about Norse warriors. Its probably the most amusing single quote I've ever encountered, and at least the bear skin part is true.
That's something of a mistranslation. It's bare rather than bear, and sark is an ancient term that basically means armor, so "bare of armor", or literally "they wore no armor". Having said that, it's not impossible that some might have worn bear skins at times, but that's not what the name means.
Brian.
Actually Tash is right. "Bär" meant "bear" in old Scandinavian (you are probably thinking of "bar" without the umlaut; this still means "bare"). "Särk" means shirt. Remember that a lot of Viking shape changer mythos involved donning animal "costumes" to change shape. The word "Bärsärk" also assumed that they could change shape, something that some people believed as well.
(btw, I'm from Sweden, thats where I get my language comments from)
Im from Denmark and [MKF]Kapten is right, i have read lots of norse history, and there was warriors wearing the skins of animals, so they could get there strength's in combat, bears and wolves where the favorite.
But generaly i think there a lot of ways to understand it, but generaly the "shapeshifter" mythos, is what its all based on.
Even some of the viking gods are descriped at wearing cloaks made of animal skins, not nessary as armour.
So, any comment about the manhoods part?
I havent read anything specific about the manhood- part to be honest :)
But considering that the celts fought naked some times and that the tribes of northern Europe seemed to be pretty mobile for a while I suppose it aint impossible that the custom spread to Scandinavia and stayed there for a while ;)
Quote from: [MKF]KaptenRemember that a lot of Viking shape changer mythos involved donning animal "costumes" to change shape. The word "Bärsärk" also assumed that they could change shape, something that some people believed as well.
Does anyont know if this was the original source of the creatures in the poem Beowulf? If I remember correctly Grendel and his kin are described as having fangs, claws, and thick fur, yet walking like a man and weilding weapons. When the one's arm is severed during the battle in the mead hall the translation I have describes it as being like a bear's.
Also the film "The 13th Warrior" actually shows the raiders wearing bear skins. The plot of this film is taken almost word for word from Beowulf.
Hm. I guess my research wasn't thorough enough (or, what I should say is that what I have read was wrong, perhaps). Odd, since it came from different sources, but I wont argue with those of you who have the ancestry and language to know more than me.
You learn something new every day, etc.
Brian.
Quote from: TashAlso they screamed "Would you like to making fuck, Berserker!" as they charged into battle.
Isn't that what the Russian heavy metal guy in the movie Clerks always sings?
Yes.
One thing I read that fits in with the shapechanger thing (kind of) is about the Beserker's magic poition. I just state that the source is not to my knowedlge reliable or even still in print (I think it was printed in the 70's)
Anyway the book claimed that the Berserkers would starve themselves the night before a battle and then drink a concoction or what you might call 'magic' potion, of a particular type of 'mushroom' that is common to northern Europe, and strong alchool. After this they would become raving wildmen who took on the characteristics of the animals whose furs they wore. (magic item idea 'Skin of changing' ).
As I said not a reliable source, but then again it doesn't need to be for fiction, does it?
The mushroom would be the red mushroom with white dots on it; I dont know the name in English. That mushroom is very hallucogenic (and very hard on the liver) so I guess that one combined with alcohol could make you feel like a bear or something ^^
according to the book it wasn't the fly agaric, but the Psilocybin mushroom (which was the main tpoic of the book-I told you it wasn't a very reliable source).
back on topic found this link.
http://www.viking.ucla.edu/hrolf/berserkers.html
Quote from: Tash
Also the film "The 13th Warrior" actually shows the raiders wearing bear skins. The plot of this film is taken almost word for word from Beowulf.
Like hell it is! It's taken from the book Eaters of the Dead by Michael Crichton, who despite being a decent writer is a crap historian. I've read Beowulf in the original, and while there's a definite connection between the book/movie and the original, the one isn't even close enough to warrant the term "adaptation," but rather "interpretation and extrapolation on a theme."
I loved the movie. The book was decent (but sooooo off). Beowulf, however, is a classic.
Jake
Indeed I have to agree with Jake on his point of view...
That, and middle english is CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP!!!(At least I think that's what I remember from reading Beowulf in high school...)
-Ingenious
I don't think its intended to be an adaptation, it just recasts the same plot in a glitzier, more Holywood friendly package. Every key point in the moive is in Beowulf except for the origins of Antonio Banderas's character (I don't remmeber Beowulf's narrator taking part in the battles, or being Muslim for that matter). Sort of like Apocolypse now being a (much better done) rehash of Conrad's "Heart of Darkness".
that much room is called "rød-fluesvamp" in danish, and its this large red mushroom with white dots, there are also a green variant, but this variant is very lethal hehe. like Kapten said.
Anyway they often also just did put it up there butt! for faster and better effect!
Anyway was what it you wanna ask about berskerkers?
Quote from: ZenDogOne thing I read that fits in with the shapechanger thing (kind of) is about the Beserker's magic poition.
Except for poor Obelix, because he fell in the cauldron as a baby...
Brian.
Quote from: IngeniousThat, and middle english is CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP!!!(At least I think that's what I remember from reading Beowulf in high school...)
Early English (aka Anglo-Saxon) which is incomprehensible for modern English speakers (unless, like my g/f, you are bilingual in German - in which case its kinda-sorta comprehensible if you squint hard at it and concentrate).
Middle-english is the language of Chaucer. The written form looks very weird but when read out by someone who knows how the orthographic rules work, its readily comprehensible to modern English speakers.
Regards
Luke
Quote from: ZenDogaccording to the book it wasn't the fly agaric, but the Psilocybin mushroom (which was the main tpoic of the book-I told you it wasn't a very reliable source).
back on topic found this link.
http://www.viking.ucla.edu/hrolf/berserkers.html
Seems I entered the discussion a bit late. (BTW I'm norwegian, so I'm allowed to disagree with the swedes and the danes).
The link agrees with what I know. Read it.
The word 'berserk' is a bit confusing, 'serk' means shirt, but it is not clear whether they were naked (no shirt) or in bearskins.
I'd consider naked, erect and frothing junkies running around with axes to be a quite disturbing sight. Obviously insane and not afraid of death (going red/red...). On the other hand, guys in bearskin sincerely believing themselves transformed into (were)bears -running with axes- is not a lot better.
As for the mushroom, it's most certainly _not_ the red 'fluesopp'/ fly agaric, but rather 'fleinsopp' (psilocybin?) - which is still outlawed to grow in norway. It contains some strong neurostimulants (comparable to LSD), and this is probably the clue to their behaviour: the recklessness, possibly their erect manhoods (I'm not sure about that one, though), their status as dangerous (to their allies as well)...
I wouldn't be surprised if Brian was just as right as Kapten and Bergh. There are a lot of ambiguities in etymology, and in this case where both are equally applicable and likely, I think it's pretty much a toss-up.
I think that the shapeshifting mythos definitely has merit, though, especially for narrative purposes. For fans of Eddings.. remember Barak?
Yes I remember Barak. Wasn't there a troublesome Bear cult as well?
Yes, but the Bear Cult had more to do with the setting mythos than the shapeshifting mythology. Eddings just tied the shapeshifting mythology in with the whole archetypal culture which was based on the avatar of their God.
The idea I was trying to emphasize more was that he was the protector who would go into a berzerk fury, and would metamorphose into a bear when his ward was in danger. The agony and the dark despair that followed his first transformation, and the slow, painful acceptance of it, eventually becoming pride when he realized what it meant, and that his line would continue the tradition was one of my favorite themes throughout the series.
Barak was an awesome character in a book full of awesome characters. I've heard Eddings called "trite" and "a lightweight" by many, but I love the Belgariad. Its my 3rd favorite fantasy series after Martin's "Song of Ice and Fire" and the Lord of the Rings.
Yes its a happy feel good type of book where everything turns out cool in the end (actually you can make this argument about Lord of the Rings as well, it just uses bigger words), and yes its simple enough that I've read the whole series in a single sitting, but how many books can keep your attention long enough to finish in a single sitting?
The bear spirit thing was probably the coolest part, I think it was handled even better than Garion and Belgarath's wolf changing powers. Neither of them grappled with the fear that they were loosing their humanity when they assumed the power to alter their forms as Barak did.