Great axe or 2h-axe. we use pole axe weapon and style, but why can a pole axe thrust?, something you can't do with a large viking 2-handed axe.
Should there be a new style or weapon stats for this?
or should we just stick to the pole-axe removing thrust offensive maneuver?
im asking becouse i really wanna know becouse of realism.
Quote from: berghbut why can a pole axe thrust?, something you can't do with a large viking 2-handed axe.
Should there be a new style or weapon stats for this?
or should we just stick to the pole-axe removing thrust offensive maneuver?
The pole axes in the 15th C often had a pointy bit on the top. That is why you can thrust. I would just use the same style, but ignore the thrust maneuver.
spikes on axe's, bahhh :)
Any axe with a crescent shaped head can thust with the top of the blade. Some were designed particularly for that. Unless it was flat topped or something, it should be an option. Give it falchion stats perhaps for thrusting.
Here are some examples of the Viking axe (I think I will use pole axe without thrust as the two handed axe doesn't seem that differnt from the 1 h)
http://www.regia.org/axe.htm
http://www.templarknights.co.uk/page5.html
http://www.imperialweapons.com/swords/Skofnung/ll09.html
Even a flat headed axes such as a tomahawk can be used to thrust. It's little more than a distraction move, and useless against armor, but you can do it.
As with other elements of TRoS there are areas where you have to use some common sense. Perfect example: half-swording. While not explicitly stated in the book that you need to be wearing gloves to do it, I think its generally agreed that doing so barehanded (or in flmsy leather gloves) will cause a nasty wound to the hand.
Likewise the table assumes that any weapon that MIGHT be good for thrusting should have a maneuver, but the player needs to think "You know, this axe doesn't have a pointy end, maybe I should modify the thrust to cause blunt damage instead of peirce".
Yes I imagine if you had to, you might use a half sword technique with the great axe at close range. Getting smacked in the face would hurt. but Generally I doubt that these Saxon/Viking type axes would be used (or much use) that way, although I'm just guessing here.
Basically my point is that, while Svaken/Viking type axes might not be used that way, SOME axes are.
The table is for Axes, not "Svaken Axes" with a severate table for "Late Middle Ages Axes" and yet another table for "Flint Headed Tomahawks".
yes, I know what the table is for I was just saying that for the daneish Great axes in my game I like bergh will use the poleaxe, but without the thrust option I wasn't whinning that Jake hadn't put every single variation of weapon in the rules.
I'd say all of those except for the bearded would put a hole in someone if you thrust at them. Why else would they be pointy? Not their primary method by far, but not bad and definitely there. Works well in practice.
Quote from: Tashhalf-swording. While not explicitly stated in the book that you need to be wearing gloves to do it, I think its generally agreed that doing so barehanded (or in flmsy leather gloves) will cause a nasty wound to the hand.Quote
Not really. You seem to be assuming that the blade is knife-sharp. The blades of most larger swords, while fairly sharp, would generally not cut the hand if you get a good grip in the thrust. Mind you, I still probably wouldn't try it without at least gloves, personally. Also bear in mind that many longer swords were actually very dull along the edges of the bottom portion of the blade, an example being the Braveheart sword, which was actually wrapped in leather. Hell, my wall-hanger's got the same thing going on, and it's an arming sword or a cut-and-thrust at most.
Also.. When you read poleaxe, think halberd, not fantasy battleaxe.
Regarding halfswording: Remember that your left hand goes in the middle of the blade (at least with a fair fraction of the long-sword techniques), and it's not going to be wrapped in anything, there. I can only state that I -not having done much halfswording in-depth- can do several techniques, including stabbing through a car tire, without problems. Also a Mortschlag (grabbing the sword by the blade with both hands and using the quillons as a make-shift axe) full-speed, full force. Again, that's with a chisel-sharp sword and *no* gloves against a car-tyre, suspended on a rope. I don't know about yours, but my sword is made of steel and it doesn't have a laser-blade.
...which goes to show that "general agreement" is to be taken cautiously.
If you want to see a poleaxe, have a look here (http://www.myarmoury.com/compare.html) and choose the last item. It's basically one with a shortened shaft.
This must be one of the more persistent myths in WMA. "Western swords weren't very sharp." In practice, 1/2 swording with very sharp blades, including mordschlag, with bare hands, has never caused me harm.
And, according to the late Ewart Oakshotte, a man who knew more about and handled more original antique western swords than probably anyone alive, said they were usually "kitchen knife sharp" and even called them "razor sharp". I know if I were using one, I'd like it to be pretty dang sharp. Likewise for a battle axe, it's not like you're going to cut wood with it.
Quote from: WolfenQuote from: TashAlso.. When you read poleaxe, think halberd, not fantasy battleaxe.
When I think poleaxe I think axe on a pole lol.
when I said you could perhaps use the same sort of technique as 'Half swording' with a danish great axe, I just meant you could change your grip on the wooden haft so as to make it possible to give someone a quick jab in the face. Again though, I don't think that would occur very often. I like Bergh, just thought that the two handed axe stats as written, wern't that good for the great axe (which has a haft almost as tall as a man) so would use poleaxe stats instead. There is no confusion as to what the various weapons are, or look like.
As to gloves no gloves sharp/blunt half sword debate, well I know nothing about that. (sharp or blunt I'd prefer gloves when grabbing hold of steel as I have the lilly soft hands of a muscian/writer).
Most confusion on pole axe is from misspelling. Pole axe is a very vague term that refers to no specific weapon. The proper term is Poll Axe, not referring to an axe on a pole.
I was actually being facetious.
When I think of the poleaxe I think of the late medieval weapon used for single combat. Spear-length haft (around 6ft), an axe head, with either a small 'hook' spike or hammer on the reverse side and usually a long thrusting spike.
Nothing like the Danish great axe but in TRoS poleaxe seems like the best fix for a two handed axe proficiency, why use mass and shield if your primary weapon is two handed?
Yeah I agree it fits just right fo great axe. And the knightly weapon you just described is the POLL AXE hehe. If someone says Pole Axe they're probably talking about a great axe or halberd.
Quote from: ZenDogI have the lilly soft hands of a muscian/writer.
You must not play a stringed instrument then. :)
And I always thought a poll axe is what you used to get rid of threads on a forum that asked questions?
Quote from: kenjib
You must not play a stringed instrument then. :)
soft hands, delicate fingers, left hand
fingertips like cur bolli (sp?)
Heh.
Here's some text about the pollaxe,
http://www.soton.ac.uk/~tpg/Pollaxe.htm
, about what it is, and how it was used.