Okay, I'm looking at Terra Australis (http://www.harlekin-maus.com/games/terra_australis/terra_australis.html), and it weirdly adds the features I was missing (but wanted, in some form) from Chthonian: Evidence and Resources.
During the Chthonian playtests, the biggest conceptual hurdles for me were to allow for a shared mythos creation, and get the player's (not just the characters) emotionally involved. I didn't have these things in the rules, and I wasn't sure about how to get them in.
With Terra Australis, that's the entire system. How do you combine shared mythos creation & emotional involvement. Hence the reduction of the entire system to a single roll (which creates evidence, resolves conflict, and stresses resources). After reading and considering Ron Edwards' Trollbabe (http://www.adept-press.com/trollbabe/), I simplified Terra Australis even further, reducing a character to a set of resources (no scores, no nothing, just the name of the resource).
Then I realized that I have two games with the same design goal: Fight monsters, create a shared mythos, stress resources (resources being people, mostly). So why not combine the two systems? Now I have Chthonian, with a Terra Australis supplement. Chthonian characters have:
- Skills (Role, Investigate, Aware, Fight, Attitude), each with descriptors (that can be used as a resource).
- Safety, in-game "health", spent as a resource or damaged during conflict.
- A list of resources: PCs, NPCs and items (maybe history and destiny will come into play, too) that are used.[/list:u]
The last one is key. All other PCs are a resource. NPCs are a potential resource. if you use these resources (gain bonus dice), there is a chance to damage the resource, or even remove it. Chthonian's design very much stresses decisions based on survival, wrapped around the gambling of a resource in order to succeed. With the addition of PCs & NPCS as resources, I hope to get the emotional player investment.
Now, two questions.
1. With the design supporting play based on gambling resources for survival, am I risking rules that encouarge incoherent play? I may have some players pushing for biggest reward, and spending resources at a purely metagame level. Other players will approach the issue of spending PC/NPC resources, and ask the question: "Is it worth sacrificing the well-being of others for my own gain?" Do these two options complement each other? Contradict each other?
2. How do I encourage the shared creation of Evidence/Mythos? My current thinking is that new facts become another resource, usable by the entire group. Any other suggestions?
I just wanted to say: YEEEHAW!
I somehow mised this post from last week. As Zak knows, I'm a big fan of Terra Australis, and it does seem to be a perfect fit for Cthonian.
Now, some answers:
1. I think you have to build the game assuming that a player will always go for the biggest reward with the smallest risk, given several options. The reason Sorcerer works both as a thematic engine as well as a tight mechanical reward system is that it does not allow multiple paths to (say) demon summoning. You always have to match your Will - Humanity vs. the Demon's power, and risk Humanity loss as a result. There's no other way to do it. If you want more power at a metagame level you have to address the thematic element of the game (Humanity).
As long as the most-sensible risk/reward method at a metagame level corresponds to the thematic element, you're good to go.
2. I like the idea of new facts becoming a group-resource. I don't have any other bright ideas at the moment, but I'll mull it over.
Quote from: John Harper1. I think you have to build the game assuming that a player will always go for the biggest reward with the smallest risk, given several options.
Oh man, big duh on my part. That's one of those things made obvious once it's pointed out to you. I think that's where my uncomfortability comes from on an intuitive, but not conscious (until now) level. I have multiple ways to spend resources, but I haven't considered the thematic (PC & NPCs and Safety as a resource) vs. less-thematic (Skills, Items).
So now, thinking that I want to encourage three stages of play, beginning, mid, and endgame. The beginning consists of investigation and discovery, the mid- consists of the discovery leading to conflict, and endgame is the "big boss fight".
So we have the no-risk expenditure: Skills. These will tend to be used up at the beginning. Which is fine, with skills like, Role, Investigate, Aware. Fight and Attitude will come into play in the mid-game, with its heightened emphasis on conflict.
After that, the two risky expenditures: Safety and PCs/NPCs. Since these come with a higher risk, the system encourages saving them for when they're absolutely needed. So Safety and PCs/NPCs will be burnt at the mid- and especially end-game, because the player will be all out of Skills to burn.
Now I have to think about the other resources to spend: Items & Evidence.
Man, thanks, John!