How likely do people feel it might be for a committed member of a religion to change religions/magic systems to suit a spouse?
Specifically, a PC devotee of Destor in my group married an NPC practitioner of a solar practice (misapplied worship of Yelmalio*). The dynamics of this situation are stumping me a bit. Can they coexist? Should one of them convert? Is she likely to, given that the PC likely will not? What are the chances of her beginning to misapply worship to a Storm deity?
I'm trying to create drama (ie Bangs) around the situation, not seek Sim cred; but something about the situation confounds me. Perhaps the mistake was in allowing their marriage in the first place (although he did Heroquest for it). What can I do with this plotline?
*Using Oliver Bernuetz's Balazar material
In the end this isn't going to be much different than what happens when people of different religions get married IRL. (Save, of course, that IRL people don't generally through lightning bolts when they get really pissed.) Any of the responses real people have to this are responses that your character's communities can have.
Or, don't let it confound you -- make it confound them. HeroQuest is all about making the world through what you believe, so they should have to figure out what they are going to believe and what they are going to do about that.
Here are some things that could come up as bangs:
- The families of one (or both) threaten to disown them if they don't get divorced.
- The families of one (or both) threaten to kill the other if they don't get divorced.
- The families of one (or the other) try to forcefully convert the spouse.
- The families don't do anything so harsh, but simply have constant fights with the spouse.
- One family embraces the new member of the family despite religious differences, highlighting the actions of the other family.
- As above but the new family is simply trying to convert through kidness.
- The temples of one (or both) move to excommunicate them unless they get divorced or covert the spouse.
- The Gods show their displeasure by removing use of magic in some way. (Could be minor, could be major). Or it could be something other than the gods doing it, but everyone interprets it as that – every bit of bad luck is taken by the locals as a sign the marriage is cursed.
- The local villagers will not work with/talk to/sell to/buy from the spouse (but will work with the local one).
- One or both loses status due to their marriage, possibly losing elected positions or being removed by disapproving bosses and elders.
- Some local boys constantly mock and proposition the new wife, as she's a valid target because she isn't part of their religion.
- One spouse breaks down and tells their family that they're trying to force their spouse to convert.
- The problems with the external world cause fights in the family, manifesting as all sorts of passive-aggressive difficulties.
- One spouse has a temporary breakdown and leaves.
- One spouse lashes out in anger at the mocking locals, widening the rift.
- One spouse puts the other down in public in order to save face.
- One spouse tries to force the other to convert.
- One spouse publicly converts, but secretly still worships the other god.
- One spouse really converts, bringing the ire of their former god and/or temple.
- The spouses have contests trying to convert each other – what will this forced conversion do? [/list:u]
And so on and on and on. This is rich stuff, milk it hard.
[crosspost with Brand. Good stuff there.]
Well, what's the NPC like? If you can't derive the answers based on the shared understanding on her character, then discuss it with the player. What are his expectations? Would he dig social stories with the common happiness at stake, or would he prefer the character as a harmless sidekick? I've found that it's simplest to just talk with the other players about what they want. You might find out that the player has very definite notions about the role played by an NPC spouse.
As for Bangs, they are easy. Just consider the following questions:
- Does his religion allow cross-marriage? Does hers?
- Does his society allow cross-marriage?
- Is there other NPCs who might have a problem with the marriage?
- Does she have former ties that could come to haunt the marriage?
... and so on. Just take the common conflicts that are likely to occur and spin them. There's much potential for themes of love, fidelity, religion and loyalty if you care to explore them. Does he abandon his wife when she's ostracized? Can she accept the divide in religious convinction? Can there be happiness and love over tribal lines?
Above all, remember that the metaphysical planes are not primary. Both characters, regardless of their metaphysical loyalties, are still humans. I find the whole question strange, as it's just a source of potential conflict. You can play it as just flavor, or make it a central conflict, whatever the preference. If the game were set in medieval Spain and it were christian PC against jewish NPC, would you have trouble? You could just ignore the situation, or the neighbours could gossip, or the inkvisition could come knocking. The same applies to Glorantha: choose for yourself how important the potential conflict is to the game.
The question would imply that you want her to change her religion. That would mean that you don't want this stuff in the game. If that's so, just go ahead and have her convert. If she's a maiden saved by the hero, for example, then the cambellian expectation is for her to passively accept the hero's worldview.
Quote from: Eero Tuovinen
The question would imply that you want her to change her religion. That would mean that you don't want this stuff in the game.
No, no! I do! That is to say, I recognise that the situation is rich with possibility--perhaps it's the very richness that's stumping me. I'm not sure what to do next with it (call it writer's block), though both you and Brand have helped.
I suppose that the question actually implies that I think conversion the most plausible outcome, because in RL that is the most common. But a little rationalisation goes a long way.
To expand a little, then: the characters have been married for a couple of years already, and have an infant son. Is it plausible for me to bring the conflict into high relief now, or have I already implicitly given the couple my blessing, so to speak?
You see? I want to salvage something I don't think I created enough conflict around to begin with.
Quote from: droogthe characters have been married for a couple of years already, and have an infant son.
And the bell goes BONG!
An infant son? The firstborn? The heir and delight of the family?
Oh yea, it's time to bring it out. People can sometimes deal with a couple being of different religions, the spouses can often deal with each other's beliefes, but a kid changes everything.
Who is going to initiate/baptise/enculturate him? What are you going to teach him? Which gods will be his? What will the grandparents, cousins, uncles, aunts, priests, friends, co-workers, and villagers say now that there is a young unformed mind on the line?
The wedding can be a shock, and the marriage make people uncomfortable, but a new kid means that there is (in the eyes of many) A Life On The Line -- and they'll react fittingly. Even those who didn't react at the birth may have just been stewing on it, getting ready and worked up to the point where now they're ready to start pushing.
Cool, brother. I have some strong, and possibly wicked, ideas all of a sudden.
Talk about not seeing what's under your nose. I embody this conflict in myself--my mother converted to my father's religion and I've felt the pull of two traditions all my life.
Quote from: droogTalk about not seeing what's under your nose. I embody this conflict in myself--my mother converted to my father's religion and I've felt the pull of two traditions all my life.
Use that. I'm sure someone else in the game will at least have known someone in a similar position, and probably have opinions about it. Anything that lets you get those things on the table is gonna create play that people will care about.
I know it's worked with my wife and I. We're of differnet religions (very different), and any time religion becomes a thing in our games you can almost feel the increase of dramatic tension around the table.