I noticed Ron Edwards mentioning this in the Sin City thread, and I was wondering if most people's definitions synced up to mine, which is, anything in a story-medium which exists only to present that thing, with such subdivisions as "Car porn" "Gun porn" "Violence porn" "Martial Arts porn" and of course, plain old "porn". Much like plain old porn, those sub-types typically feature heavy fetishization, and a little to no resemblance to the reality of the thing in question.
I always looked at the setting of D&D as "fantasy porn", that is, its an exploration of various tropes that are tied to fantasy through the loosest threads, catagorized in such a way (Alignment, Levels, Spell-like abilities) that makes them function in the narrative completely alien from their original design.
Given that definition of porn, yeah, that pretty much sums it up.
My old high school theater teacher used the same definition: "pornography" was any creative work in which story, characters, etc. existed solely to deliver some other payload, whether actual sex, fight scenes, explosions, sweeping landscape vistas...
I'm not sure that D&D could be considered "fantasy porn," though. Taken as a whole, it seems too ... various ... for that.
I've not thought of the definition outside of Porn -- sex. But, especially given this broader sense of porn, is the word still pejorative? If so, why? All those pornographies sound groovy to me, if well done.
Quote from: Christopher WeeksI've not thought of the definition outside of Porn -- sex. But, especially given this broader sense of porn, is the word still pejorative? If so, why? All those pornographies sound groovy to me, if well done.
Well, regular pornography is cool if what you want is images of people being naked and having sex.
And yet it is mildly pejorative -- we distinguish pornography from "real art" or whatever. It all depends on your expectations.
Well, yeah, it's all well and good for it's purpose, but eventually, you want to get out and do it for real, instead of this stuff all around it, you want to care about the folks involved, because you know that'll make it better.
And then you do, and you find it a lot deeper and more satidfying and, yes, more complicated and more dangerous in it's own way...
But that's enough about D&D in relation to FRP, what about sexporn and erotica?
Can I call some threads "Forge porn" then?
yrs--
--Ben
Quote from: Ben LehmanCan I call some threads "Forge porn" then?
yrs--
--Ben
Links! We demand links!
Or not, since that would be needlessly personal...
(PM me with links!)
I know I've taken to referring to certain "lifestyle" magazines as "consumer porn."
Hello,
Sirogit, that pretty much corresponds to the definition that Seth and I discussed privately a while ago. Pornography, to me, is not sex-specific; rather, sexual pornography is merely a sub-type.
Or if you wanted to look at it another way, sex (depiction, description, etc), can be utilized in media in a number of ways, one of which is pornographic. Substitute practically anything you want for "sex" and the same will apply.
I wrote a magazine article for a few bucks a while ago about martial arts pornography in a lot of 80s-ish movies, and I don't think it's unreasonable to consider a lot of network news broadcasting to be "gossip porn." I'm not using the term, in these cases, as any sort of analogy or ironic reference or anything like that - it's a literal description of how the stuff is presented and what's happening with the viewer.
Best,
Ron
por nog' ra phy' (n): "We'll know it when we see it."
--The Supreme Court of the United States of America
I think some of the stuff you (collective) have been describing is more like erotica than porn, given the definitions of erotica:
Erotica: [Sexually] arousing material that is not degrading to men, women, or children. (Janet S Hyde, Understanding Human Sexuality, Whitehall, Ohio, McGraw 1990)
Erotica: [Sexually] oriented media that are considered by a viewer or a society as within the acceptable bounds of decency. (Janell Carroll & Paul R Wolpe, Sexuality and Gender in Society, Reading, Mass.: Addison-Wesley 1996)
My brackets added, to see if it works to pop in 'martial arts', 'computer', 'consumer', etc.
Ok, I do think the "gossip porn" is porn (i.e. It's degrading to men, women, and/or children.)
Is Dungeons and Dragons degrading to Fantasy?
Hmm. Bad (or average) D&D play is. So are a lot of D&D players. As for the system / setting itself, that's tricky.
Quote from: Brendanpor nog' ra phy' (n): "We'll know it when we see it."
--The Supreme Court of the United States of America
Actually, that was their reaction to obscenity, not pornography.
Quote from: AdamDrayQuote from: Brendanpor nog' ra phy' (n): "We'll know it when we see it."
--The Supreme Court of the United States of America
Actually, that was their reaction to obscenity, not pornography.
AUGH, you're right! I hereby redact myself.