The Forge Archives

Hiya all,

A while back I'd writen to Vincent via email and asked him about the possiblity of publishing Dogs in hardcover, and how much that might cost the consumer.  Well, ol' Vincent must have gotten distracted, 'cuz he never did get back to us like he said he would.  :)

So, when I considered writing him back today, I figured;  Why keep it private?  I'm sure there are others out there playing this game that would like a hardcover copy and might be willing to jump on the Harrass Vincent Bandwagon.  

I was also thinking that, if other publishers that had looked into the costs, they may be able to chip in their info... which I'm hoping will in turn inspire Vincent to get on the move.  

Lemmie see if I can break down the what I want vs. what I'm offering in a list:

What I want:

I'd like to see the hardcover version of dogs without any art at all.  Not even on the cover.  If the texture and look of the cover could be made to resemble an old fashioned book of scripture, I'd be dizzy with delight.  
Mind you, I really like Drew Baker's cover art, and I wouldn't turn down a hardcover that featured it, but if the cover were to, say, have the tree of life instead... dizzy I say, dizzy.

I'd like the hardcover to be very well manufactured.  After all, the reason why I'm so interested in having a hardcover is so that it can take a little more of a beating.  I travel alot, so my softcovers tend to loose all cover after too much love.

I'd like to see Jason Morningstar's wonderful handouts of names and passages to be included.  I know that this is probably just wishful thinking, as Jason's passages were really cut & paste work from real scripture... which may lead to a legal nightmare.  But hey, if I'm gonna dream, I'm gonna dream big.

I'd also like to see some minor changes in the text of the book.  Just polishing, mind you.  Clearing of the known existing typos, and maybe even an inclusion of recent essays on how to play that Vincent and others have put out here on the forge.  Heh, like clearing up that paragraph that seems to imply that if someone else escalates, so must you.  Just polishing, just polishing.

I'd like Vincent's hand to cramp up from numbering and signing every single copy.  ;)

And I want it by Christmas.  :)[/list:u]

What I'm offering:

I think I could afford any price on the book.  I'm willing to go as high as $50 for each copy.  Heh.  Get crazy with the textured cover and ribbons and the like, and I'd go as high as $100 a copy.  I've done as much for games I wasn't even playing at the time, just to have the 'limited edition' copies of the games I love.  I sure as hell will do it for Dogs.

I need at least 3 copies.  I will buy at least 3 copies.  If I've got the money in my pocket the day they're offered, I'll get 5.

I'm willing to pay in advance.  To offset any out of pocket costs for Vincent.  I already know he produces a fine quality product, and I know I won't be dissapointed with the outcome.

Finally, if it was useful, I'd offer my time.  I'm already chained to a computer, so if there were anything I could do more than I'm doing already, I'd be happy to.[/list:u]

So, what I'd like from this forum is to hear from everyone who might be interested in a Dogs hardcover, and what they'd like to see in it.  I'd like to hear from those who have contacts with printing companies as to what it might cost Vincent to produce it.  I'd like to hear from anyone and everyone who has anything to contribute to getting this thing done, even if it's just a verbal commitment to buy a copy when it happens.

Let's make this happen.

-Eric

Regular old hardcover version of Dogs -- no. Super-cool, limited edition, looks-like-a-period-religious-text hardcover version of Dogs -- hell yes.

Well, I hate to be a wet blanket, but I'd rather see a Red Sky a.m. softcover than a DitV hardcover.  Vincent has limited time and resources.

Yeah, I'd buy.  But I like pictures.  None on the cover is groovy, but the cover illustration on the inside cover would work.  And black'n'white illos throughout that look like an old Sears and Robucks catalog.  

I wouldn't buy it if the cover were leather.  (But a faux-leather synthetic would be grand.)

Chris

edit: Oh, and I'd prepay too.

Hi,

Oh, am I the only one who would like to see the Tree on the cover?  Come on, nothing says cool like single mysterious rune/icon on the cover of a book.  I was vastly saddened when my hardback version of HeroQuest came with the lame picture, the title and the RUNE that I wanted...

:)

Chris

I'd probably pre-drop some cash for a copy of Dogs in the Vineyard: 2d8.

"Say, that's an awfully big, fine quality copy of Dogs in the Vineyard you have there.."

And I'll toss my vote in for the Tree of Life on the cover, and the current cover image on the inside cover. The black and white photographs and such throughout I don't really care about one way or t'other, though. Expanded notes on setting and such would be cool, but not essential.

Failing all of that, well I reckon my soft-copy will do me well enough.

I know nothing about the exingencies of printing, but perhaps Vincent could give his blessing to somebody else to assemble a "deluxe version".  It's a cool idea, but it sounds like a lot of work for not much payoff.

If it'll scratch your itch, whipping up a tattered-tree-of-life-book-cover .PDF to  wrap your copy in is no big deal.  Not the same, I know, but I'd be happy to make one if anybody would enjoy it.

All the sources for my handouts are in the public domain and Vincent already has my permission to use and share them.  

--Jason

You're all very sweet!

Eric, I'd forgotten who asked. Thanks!

No more speculating. IF I put together a hardcover book: a) It'll be pricey, but in the $30s; if I'd have to charge $40+ for it I won't make it. b) It'll have the Drew Baker art on the inside title page and a Tree of Life on the cover. c) It'll be illustrated, same as the upcoming illo'd edition (but don't worry, the illos are good.) d) By the end of this year is about the right timeframe, yeah. e) Notice the all-caps on "IF."

-Vincent

I think it should have a solid gold cover and be printed on delicious nougat.

A)  Yay!

B)  How about Jason's material?  I think that they're indespensible resources, and probably won't ever introduce the game to a noob without them.  Of course I can get away with passing around my home-printed copies, but I'd so love for them to be in the new edition.

C)  Nougat!  Yum!

-Eric

p.s.  Yay!

Edit:
D)  I don't think $30-$40 is pricey when I already know that the material within is quality.

I've plunked down much, MUCH more than $30 for some truly shitty games, so that price for a supersweet-looking version of Dogs (which I love so damn much!) would would be the deal of a lifetime.

This is saying a lot coming from me, too.  Normally, I hate, hate, HATE "limited edition" books, because they serve no purpose other than to charge more money for games I already don't like paying full retail for, but I think that something like this would really add to the immersion and roleplaying experience of a DitV game.  C'mon, how friggin' COOL would it be to stand up in the middle of play and actually act out abjuring a demon with your sweet-ass limited edition copy of Dogs in the Vineyard?

*huff, huff*  (Gotta catch my breath).  Man, I'm a fanboy.

Anyhoo, them's my thoughts :)

Nick

QuoteI'd like to see Jason Morningstar's wonderful handouts of names and passages to be included. I know that this is probably just wishful thinking, as Jason's passages were really cut & paste work from real scripture... which may lead to a legal nightmare. But hey, if I'm gonna dream, I'm gonna dream big.

The King James Bible is way in the public domain. No legal issues there, unless Jason wants to try for a compilation copyright.

The 1831 edition of the Book of Mormon (http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/17) is in the public domain too, if you're interested in siphoning names out of it. (Brother Brother of Jared!)

About the hypothetical hardcover, I'd gladly drop thirty-odd bucks on what Vincent's described, if the book wasn't much taller or wider than the current edition. Don't want no big 9x12 hardcover holding me down.

As the guy who'd be responsible for the layout of this book - and don't underestimate the amount of work it would be to put out a separate edition - it would probably be smaller (maybe thicker if we can wreck the page references). More like a bedside bible.

BUT!

I can tell you with authority that there are no such plans in the works for such a thing. Right now, we want the 2nd ed. to be done in time for GenCon, and that's no mean feat. I'm also working on Mountain Witch (which will be out next month) so any work that could go into this would have to wait for June... and then GenCon's on us.

So don't hold your breath. It could be cool, but it's guaranteed to be a chunk of work. There's also no way to know right now what the market size is for this kind of thing, so the $30 Vincent mentioned is entirely hypothetical. We're as sure as the King's justice that it's something we can't do before GenCon, though.

As for the specifics, well, Jason's play aids are really cool, and I'm glad others think so too, but having official stuff actually drawn from the Christian Bible focuses the nature of the Faith in a way that I'm not comfortable with. I can't speak for Vincent, but I want the players' version of the Faith to spring from their own morality (or the ones they're exploring), not a pre-existing one. If the play aid exists on its own (and Jason, I think you should print and sell it), then it's an optional thing, just like the directory of towns.

I haven't heard about a 2nd edition before. Is there a thread about it somewhere? If not, can you give us any clues to the changes /additions?

Illustrations. Some clarification in the text. More find-what-you're-looking-for-friendly layout. No changes to the game.

-Vincent

"...Rise, Thread, Rise from your grave!!!"

Is there enough support here, do you think, for Vincent to try the ransom method for a special hardcover edition of Dogs in the Vineyard?  It seems to be a publishing method that is catching fire, and I know there is a rock-solid base of Dogs fans out there.

Just a thought!

I'm all for the "Book of Life" edition of Dogs.

The guy who invented the ransom method is around here on the board somewhere, and would probably be happy to advise on how to go about it.

Definitely gold or silver inlaid Tree on the fake leatherish cover, with the wide red bookmark ribbon thingie. Maybe even gold edged pages like church bibles? But not the wussy ricepaper pages...

My copy of Dogs, which I've had for 2 weeks? Already starting to come apart. That particular binding method is really crappy, several graphic novels I own that were bound that way have come apart after minimal usage. I may take it to Kinkos and have it ring-bound to lay flat on the table.

Which reminds me, the uber-deluxe edition should be able to lay flat open on the table. In fact, all roleplaying books forever after of any kind should be able to lie flat on the table, without exception.

huh, that is too bad.  I am picky about keeping my books in good shape, and when they fall apart it is irritating.  But with my copy of Dogs I have had no trouble at all so far.  I think sometimes it must be luck of the draw, though it is tru that some binding methods are inherently sturdier (and more expensive).

Ring biding is a good answer, though.

Quote from: Nev the Deranged on September 25, 2005, 06:56:00 AM

I'm all for the "Book of Life" edition of Dogs.

The guy who invented the ransom method is around here on the board somewhere, and would probably be happy to advise on how to go about it.

Definitely gold or silver inlaid Tree on the fake leatherish cover, with the wide red bookmark ribbon thingie. Maybe even gold edged pages like church bibles? But not the wussy ricepaper pages...

My copy of Dogs, which I've had for 2 weeks? Already starting to come apart. That particular binding method is really crappy, several graphic novels I own that were bound that way have come apart after minimal usage. I may take it to Kinkos and have it ring-bound to lay flat on the table.

Which reminds me, the uber-deluxe edition should be able to lay flat open on the table. In fact, all roleplaying books forever after of any kind should be able to lie flat on the table, without exception.

And I'd like a pony.

yrs--
--Ben

I'd like a space ship.

Oo! With laser guns!

I want a pony with laser guns!