I'm going to tell you straight up: There is no "Nordic tradition", or whatever those Fins and that Norwegian guy Erik Flatsomething is talking about. I know, this is probably a big surprise to you, but it is true. The "Nordic Tradition" is just that thing that those Fins and that Norwegian guy Erik Flatsomething is talking about. Really? Yes. Really!
I am sure that whatever it is they are doing is fine and fulfilling and groundbreaking and whatever, but, well, I'm not part of it. Most of us are not.
Oh, and if you wonder why the Fins so emphatically keep saying that "it" isn't called Scandinavia, it is because they don't live in here. So now you know.
It feels good to get it off my chest.
Flatnose, is it?
Would that be any relation to Flat Eric (http://www.punchbaby.com/clip_FlatEric.htm)?
They could be one and the same, for all I know. I don't know these Nordic Tradition people. Actually, I think they were all the brain child of Ralph Mazza, as part of some bizarre scheme simultaneously related to the US invasion of Iraq and meat-eating. That is all I can tell you, right now. Got to go put on my tinfoil cap.
Well, of course, the Nordic Tradition is a lie. Here in Minnesota, we invented it to draw tourists to our very own Kensington Rune Stone. (http://farshores.org/avikston.htm) And so we could name our football team the Vikings. And it gave us the permission to say, "You bettcha."
Roleplaying draws tourists to Minnesota? That's bizarre.
;-)
Man, I was sure that thing was a hoax.
Minnesota? It is a hoax. No such place.
The Nordic Tradition is all part of my secret plot to take over the world with a cult of free forming viking Larpists based in Minnesota who eat only bacon. But you can't blame me for Iraq, that was all Dubya's idea, he wanted a war and couldn't spell South Korea...me, I was pushing for France.
mmmm....bacon.
Quote from: Clyde L. Rhoer on April 05, 2006, 02:34:12 AMMinnesota? It is a hoax. No such place.
Oh shit. They KNOW.
I'm totally one of those people who every time I see the Vikings logo, thinks "Hey! Vikings didn't have horns!" But what can you do?
My late grandfather owned a cap with stuffed horns sewn on. The front read "Horny Norsk." He seemed to think this was a hoot, which was disturbing seeing as it was, you know, my grandfather. Oddly, this was my German grandfather, not the Norwegian one.
If it is necessary for me to consume more bacon for Ralph, than so be it.
Hm ... why did I derail this? My first post is actually entirely true. Well, except that I do know Eirik Flathead's real name.
And Peter is of course actually correct. Just like it's been said before, the experientialists are only a small, if influential minority (or a small, if influential figment of imagination) in the Nordic area (or was it Minnesota). And there are lots of fans of the "plain fun" school of thought who want nothing to do with the few hundred people into the experientialist scene.
As we all know, it's really just a celebrity cult. The most visible innovators just happen to be from those circles, and are good at presenting themselves as important. And it's called Nordic only because that's a convenient label. It isn't really like anything actually interesting (http://www.ropecon.fi/brap/ch18.pdf), important (http://gamelab.uta.fi/rpg-seminar) or international (http://jeepen.org/knutpunkt/) as far as role-playing is concerned ever happens here. We're just insignificant art-dreamers with delusions of grandeur and too much time.
Hey, Tuomas. What happened with your paper thing? Can I talk about it now?
Quote from: J. Tuomas Harviainen on April 05, 2006, 07:27:44 AM
And there are lots of fans of the "plain fun" school of thought
Why did I wackyparse this as "plain fur"?
Aha! There it is again, but in a different form. So the Nordic tradition people are the avant garde theory experimentalist thinkers and the rest of us are not reflecting at all, because we just want to have fun?
Well, okay. Which is it: Am I not Nordic or am I a "fan of the 'plain fun' school"? Seriously, if these are the only two alternatives, which one applies to me?
Oh, and I mean all of the above in the friendliest possible way.
Cheers,
/Peter
Quote from: Peter Nordstrand on April 05, 2006, 07:03:16 AM
Hm ... why did I derail this? My first post is actually entirely true. Well, except that I do know Eirik Flathead's real name.
Hmm. Well, I'm actually completely in the dark about whatever "controversy" you were talking about in the first place, so I presumed you were being silly. Out of any context, it does sound silly.
Oh. There is no controversy. Or at least there wasn't one until I created it in this very thread. :-)
And yeah, it is kind of silly.
Cheers,
/Peter
Quote from: Ben Lehman on April 05, 2006, 07:30:55 AM
Hey, Tuomas. What happened with your paper thing? Can I talk about it now?
Yes you can. It got what it deserved, i.e. heavy criticism based on questions of reliability and word formulation. I'll revise it eventually, run a few result confirmation experiments and try get it published on some peer-reviewed forum. But feel free to talk about it already. It's public now.
By the way, the seminar was excellent.
Quote from: Peter Nordstrand on April 05, 2006, 08:07:19 AM
Well, okay. Which is it: Am I not Nordic or am I a "fan of the 'plain fun' school"? Seriously, if these are the only two alternatives, which one applies to me?
You are of course a Nordic who likes his games less avant-garde than the more vocal guys do. Honestly, the only reason it's called "Nordic style/tradition/etc." is because the damn Americans find that definition convenient. Any player from the Nordic area knows what the scene over here is actually like. Liking games "for fun" isn't a denial of reflection, just a different reflective focus.
Hi again,
You are being very courteous, Toumas, which I appreciate.
Actually, the (admittedly silly, because it doesn't really matter) problem I have is just that you are speaking for me. I don't like avant garde? You don't know that. I play just "for fun"? Did I say that? No I didn't. You did. In fact, your kind of avant garde experimental theory making is not the only one. There are many ways, even in our little corner of the world, right?
Nuff said.
Have fun at Barnens ö.
All the best,
/Peter
Quote from: Peter Nordstrand on April 05, 2006, 08:35:05 AMActually, the (admittedly silly, because it doesn't really matter) problem I have is just that you are speaking for me. I don't like avant garde? You don't know that. I play just "for fun"? Did I say that? No I didn't. You did. In fact, your kind of avant garde experimental theory making is not the only one. There are many ways, even in our little corner of the world, right?
I'll flog the dead horse a bit more: in contrast to what many people on rpg fora may believe, the so-called "Nordic" style has mostly been about openness to new ideas and the willingness to question conventions of play and game design, not about being avant-garde for its own sake. (Nor is it about beloging in a certain group.) Thus if you're doing experimentation for the sake of seeing what can actually be done using role-playing
and telling others about it, you're actually following the supposedly "Nordic" ideals. But, if you're doing experimentation (or being avant-garde) but not spreading the knowledge, it's still gaming for fun. Just more advanced fun. (Which, if it must be said out loud, I do not consider any less worthy or important. For each their own style of play.)
(And what's wrong with you Swedes? You all misspell my name. Always. Why is it so hard to see that it's just a Thomas with a "u" instead of "h"?)
Thank you, I intend to have a great time at Barnens ö. Hopefully I'll also manage to interview a lot of people for my upcoming research project.
I'm all against the Nordic tradition. But I find myself doing more and more of the Nordic stuff. Experimenting with shared hypnotic fiction, participating in an undie LARP*, and trying to break the borders between LARP and tabletop.
It's a granfalloon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granfalloon).
* An undie LARP != an indie LARP. Undie LARPS are when you play in your underwear.
Quote from: Peter Nordstrand on April 04, 2006, 10:27:55 PMI am sure that whatever it is they are doing is fine and fulfilling and groundbreaking and whatever, but, well, I'm not part of it. Most of us are not.
Actually, we're not doing anything. The last time we roleplayed was when Aftermath was all new and shiny. After that, we've just talked about playing. But one of these days, we will be playing. We'll do it with Aftermath. And we'll have a giant sheet with an unbelieveably large flowchart of EVERYTHING.
Aftermath. Gotta love it.
Quote from: Valamir on April 05, 2006, 02:51:02 AM
The Nordic Tradition is all part of my secret plot to take over the world with a cult of free forming viking Larpists based in Minnesota who eat only bacon. But you can't blame me for Iraq, that was all Dubya's idea, he wanted a war and couldn't spell South Korea...me, I was pushing for France.
Watch his eyes as he lies! We who are not of American descent all know that there is no such place as "France"! You only use it to rally support amongst your constituency!
You'll have to try again and do better Mr. Mazza!