Hello,
I figure it's time to start a new thread; the first one was kind of big and it sets the Task at Hand pretty well. Let's get specific now.
Andy, Lael, and Ian are the players, I'm the GM. We're talking about Dragon Pass, near the Dragon's Eye, putatively not too far from Grazer territory and smack in Telmori territory, or what used to be. Please note that this is semi-Lunar-dominated territory. Over the last couple of decades (after the Telmori were especially obnoxious to their neighbors), things have changed a lot. Jomes Hostralos, a Lunar warrior, basically smashed and dominated the tribe, killing their greatest champion. The Telmori still exist as a free tribe, but they're pretty scattered and the area isn't really under their governing control. (Note that their "governing control" pretty much consisted of letting the land run wild anyway.)
Who could be there? Just about anyone. Lunar immigrants may have received a land grant there, which frankly was kind of a shitty deal as they are landed with still-extant angry werewolves, totally fallow and untended farmland, friggin' dragonewts showing up unexpectedly, probably a few rebel Heortlings who scattered into the area, and tenuous at best support from any centralized Lunar authority.
I totally like the idea of a special site or geographical feature that's important to the whole saga. But not in a metaplot way, just come up with why anyone in the area would be committed to its integrity.
A Lunar sorcerer almost certainly would play a military role, unless he or she was interested in some kind of magical resource or lore to explore. I think various Telmori would cover the whole range, from plain old acquiescence to the Lunars ("Hell, they beat our champion. I'm with them."), to functional if not respectful community oriented ("All I care about is that we live together decently, and the Sartarite nationals and your Red Goddess can both kiss my ass."), to outright rebellion ("Call me a werewolf? Fine. I'll eat your sheep and maybe you, too."). Grazers might be a bit harder to understand, but then again, perhaps they're dealing with the Lunars too. Personally, I like the idea of a Lunarized Heortling who's doing soldier duty there.
Anyway, Blake was right in saying that HW doesn't work well if you do the Garbage Salad approach to characters; they have to spin out of a community or from a meeting of communities. Keep that in mind, and we're all set as we move into PC creation.
Ian, Lael, Andy? What sort of folks might you consider? I recommend thinking in terms of plain old drama from Lit 101 - these people have friends, family, and a place to live, and they have some hard choices to make and reasons to try to get along.
My plan is to set this stuff up in this thread, and then to start a third thread all about handling the larger-scale rules of Hero Wars - magic in action, scenario prep for community conflict, showing how Hero Bands get formed, dealing with character improvement, and eventually heroquesting.
Best,
Ron
Hey,
One more point, a pretty serious one.
Don't be afraid to make up "special" characters. By which I mean, any of the following:
Marked from Birth - e.g., say your character was born dead, but his mother committed a shocking self-sacrifice to Ana Gor, feared goddess of human sacrifice ... and the child lived. The character may or may not know this. This is just an example of anything that would be a tipoff, to the "reader," that this character is going to be some kind of major deal.
Moral Choice - e.g., say your character had done or resolved something pretty damn important or scary, in a way that affected the lives of dozens of people. Maybe there was a feud, and your character killed ... well, just about everybody on the other side, because no other path to peace seemed possible. Clan politics since then have never been the same, but the feud was ended for good. Again, this is just an example. Others might include someone who married across Heortling-Lunar lines and killed the priest who forbade it - then was absolved by a powerful ritual.
Unusual Experiences - e.g., say your character had actually lived with dragonewts for a summer, or perhaps travelled all the way to the southern peninsula called God Forgot and seen the amazing things there, or maybe he fought a chaos monster near Snake Pipe Hollow and now uses its jawbone as a powerful magical talisman. Remember, you have five abilities to define for yourself; if one of them is "magic spear," or "dragonewt spirit pal," no one's to stop you.
None of these are required. Any of them, and anything like them, is completely "legal" and totally allowed. This isn't Harnmaster; you don't have to say, "Durrr, I'm a shepherd" and be done.
Best,
Ron
Okay, how are we doing this? Just a flow of ideas at this point or are we looking for the 100 word descriptions, etc?
My style of play focuses on one issue: character relationships. Everything is defined by it in my GM'ing (when I was GM'ing) and my playing. As a result, I often start out with creating a few of these core relationships and my 'mega-background shit' comes out from that (such as having visited Dragonewts or destroyed a tribe, etc), or even it doesn't it at least ensures I have the relationship stuff in. This is one reason I like Hero Wars, in theory, as it defines those relationships in play and they become useable facets of the game at system level.
Be warned TV show and movie analogies may follow - sometimes it helps me get straight to the point.
I was going to go for a Heortling charater, since it is the culture I am most familiar with due the fact they have Celtic influences. He would also counter the Lunar character that may already be in the game. He can be a member of one of the rebel tribes mentioned in the original post of this thread.
The goal is to construct a Buffy/Faith dynamic, or if you don't watch that show a Batman/Catwoman dynamic. I know, bad analogy time, but basically the intention is for the character to have found the love of his life, and she was his, but events happened to split them up and put them on apposing sides. As I write this I'm conscious of Ron's don't write the story rule?
I was thinking of having the significant other (for want of a better term at this point) be a Herotling woman he grew up with, but I like the idea of the forbidden marriage as a catalyst for driving other background stuff and being the driver for conflict, possibly the one that now has them as enemies (or are they?). As a result, she could be a Lunar woman, and also potentially provide a link to another Lunar character.
Why are the enemies now? I'm working on that, but the intention is that they still actually love each other, but may be society has made them enemies? Or may be something horrible has happened that has resulted in the Lunar significant other seeking to protect herself from further harm by treading a 'path of darkness'? Or may be events conspired to have my character betray her, so she is now on this downward spiral and she can't trust my character to save her?
I'm still thinking, but we basically have a Heortling character who married a Lunar, they shared a love that few ever possess, but this caused some sort of significant event, such as a war/fued with another Heortling tribe or a war within the tribe? This results in the Lunar women setting of an a path that puts her at odds with my character (she is may be Hero on a descent into darkness, while I'm still on the upward journey - different points in the mythical cycle which results in us being at odds).
May be the marriage was prophesised on my characters birth, as a union that would lead to great things for the tribe (and may be it eventually will, though it obviously does not seem so now)?
Needs further work. Crap. Okay. Good?
Ian,
It sounds like you're taking the Moral Choice option. And you're right to be concerned about the over-writing side of things, as you're treading dangerously close to playing before you play.
History: married across the Lunar-Heortling line. No problem. Realize that this can happen fully within the Heortling culture, with no need for the woman to be Dara Happan or foreign in any way. That's because Lunar missionaries and political treaties have been around for at least a century, to one extent or another.
To keep it simplest, it could be a very basic marriage that split (not dissolved) when the woman went "one way" and the husband went "the other." Yet they don't want to lose one another. Excellent! I love it. Don't worry about the "hero" or myth side yet.
I also hasten to add that Lael and Andy are just as much "authorities" in terms of reacting to this idea as I am. I don't want this to be like a bad classroom discussion in which the dialogue goes student, instructor, other student, instructor, student 3, instructor, etc.
Best,
Ron
Okay Here's a first pass.
QuotePersonally, I like the idea of a Lunarized Heortling who's doing soldier duty there.
Funky, I'd considered something along these lines (drawing on Roman occupation type stuff again) but dismissed it as being too short a time period, but since it's not I'll drag it back in again ;-).
My thoughts go something along these lines. The son of a Heortling chief, his clan was defeated by the Lunars when he was a child. He has grown up under Lunar domination. Despite losing their freedom they've actually prospered. The older members of the clan hate the lunars, the younger members are split between following their elders and the opportunities available with the lunars. He came of age and trained with the warriors. Still unsure if he wanted to follow the old ways or the new he chose to join a lunar army. A few other young warriors have joined him. Their motives are mixed, some want to learn more about their enemy, others are lunar-philes.
Linking in to the other characters should be easy enough. He could be from the same clan as the other Heortling or his love. Being in the lunar army will give him connection to any lunar character.
Hooks/specials - I've got a few ideas, nothing I've settled on though. Something to do with why his clan weren't wiped out, why his father surrendered ? Not sure, still mulling that over. I like the idea of the son despising his father for the choices he made then having to make the same choices himself. Maybe he was a twin and the lunars took his twin away to ensure that the tribe would behave. Maybe he knows about his twin, maybe not. Actually I really like the twin idea.
I think that I'm going to go with the Lunar Sorcerer. The character that I have in mind would have been born to a Lunar mother that had become pregnant by a Heortling Warrior. She gave birth to triplets under a strange sign, possibly a Solar Eclipse. The first child was born under the full darkness of the ecplise, the second child during a partial eclipse, and the last was born after the eclipse was over. The "Child Born in Darkness" would be my character and would have returned to the Lunar Empire with his mother at a very young age. The other two children remained with their father.
I'm not sure if the conception of the children was consensual, though his mother could have been a missionary as you mentioned. My character would have been trained in the Lunar Empire and has returned to the lands of his birth through the military action. Perhaps my brothers could have made names for themselves in the tribe that the other characters come from? Or possibly, we have the same father and are half-brothers?
Lael
First passes are all in- are these all enough to start with - do we need to add more detail? What do people think?
With respect to the half brothers thing, I'm fine with that, though it might be a bit more than Ron was wanting. All being family might be a bit - much? Freely willing to discuss though. Open mind and everything.
Another options is for one of your triplets to be the woman I married, Lael?
Or may be the connecting factor is purely external - such as the mythical place, or a strange memory we all share?
Any of these, or some connection completely different, is all fine with me :)
Quote from: Ian O'RourkeWith respect to the half brothers thing, I'm fine with that, though it might be a bit more than Ron was wanting. All being family might be a bit - much? Freely willing to discuss though. Open mind and everything.
It might be too much, but it would certainly give the group a tie to each other.
Quote from: Ian O'RourkeAnother options is for one of your triplets to be the woman I married, Lael?
You know, I had not even thought of one of the triplets being female, my assumption had been all males, but that might very well be an interesting twist. Depends on if we want more or less NPCs running around. If we want more, then perhaps the woman you married ran away with one of my triplets or was related to them (and my character) in some way. Admitidly it is only one NPC more or less, but it might change things a little. Especially if my triplets were identical triplets, then every time your character loooked at mine, he would see the face of the man that stole his wife.
Quote from: Ian O'RourkeOr may be the connecting factor is purely external - such as the mythical place, or a strange memory we all share?
Speaking of the Mythical Place. Unless Ron already has some ideas that he has settled on, perhaps we should start bouncing ideas around about what makes this place so special. I'll see what I can do to get that started. Some or all of these may not really fit with Glorantha, I'm still a little hazy on many of the details of the setting, but maybe there will be some ideas worth mining here.
* An Ancient Dragonewt Burial Ground that was lost to the Dragonewts long ago, but has recently been unearthed by Lunar Forces.
* The site of a god's birth and ascension to power
* The Middle World analog to the resting place of a powerful Telmori Wolf spirit.
* A buried ruin created by an ancient order of Sorcerers
* The location of a Lost Artifact of Orlanth. The artifact was lost during one of the more commonly known heroquests and the location and story of the artifact was never known. Perhaps retracing the path of the artifact from the known heroquest to its current location is part of our story. Perhaps the known heroquest had something to do with the dragonewts and the artifact was lost in an encounter with them. And to find out what happened to the artifact we have to deal with the dragonewts.
That's about all I have right now.
Later,
Lael
I don't really know enough about Glorantha to be able to offer any specifics about locations but I can comment on what I'd like to get out of the location (so to speak).
I'd like the location to present a dilemma for my character, a focus to his doubts and trouble deciding between the old ways and the new. An artifact that can make or break whichever side gains control, secrets that could shift the balance in either way, something along those lines.
I guess what I mean is I'm happy for the location itself to be a maguffin (for my character at least), I'd like it to dominate the story without it actually being that important in and of itself (does that make any sense ?)
As for character interactions, I think they'll fall easily into place without trying to be too contrived.
On the other hand one character being a twin and another being a triplet, both separated from each of their siblings at an early age does seem a little contrived ;-). Unless of course we all play siblings or we focus the story on the different paths of life and highlight that by showing how siblings who make different choices end up different (or possibly even the same).
On the other hand I'm happy enough to drop the missing twin concept, I want to concentrate on the father relationship and on the choices the father made.
Quote from: AndyGuestAs for character interactions, I think they'll fall easily into place without trying to be too contrived.
On the other hand one character being a twin and another being a triplet, both separated from each of their siblings at an early age does seem a little contrived ;-). Unless of course we all play siblings or we focus the story on the different paths of life and highlight that by showing how siblings who make different choices end up different (or possibly even the same).
On the other hand I'm happy enough to drop the missing twin concept, I want to concentrate on the father relationship and on the choices the father made.
One of the problems that I've always had with players in my games is that they are never willing to come up with characters that fit together. Which is more contrived? That we are all related either through blood or circumstance, or that we meet in a bar and decide to trust each other with our lives? I admit that those two are fairly extreme examples, but I would rather give the characters strong reasons to work together than simply assuming that such reasons will come out in play.
If I'm reading things correctly, we are already talking about a Heortling, a Heortling Lunar Sympathiser, and a Lunar Sorcerer working together. We are going to need a strong reason for them to work together rather than fighting amongst themselves.
Or maybe I'm just overreacting based on my personal experiences. I'll go along with the majority on this one.
Later,
Lael
With respect to the location, and I'm not overly concerned what it is other than it should be important and have some sort of emotional resonance for all the characters - i.e it should probably be a relationship trait. Quite interested in a few of the above, though we must take care not to de-mistify it.
As for the character connections, I'm fine with many that have been mentioned. We can see what the fourth voice has to say and move on from that point.
These all sound like good concepts. The family relationships don't bother me, but I'm puzzled why they'd have to be sibling. Having a more distant relationship works just as well, unless you really want to work on the premise through the closest bonds of blood ties. I tend to aim at Kubasik's goal of maximizing the potential for meaningful (in terms of story) conflict, so I'd steer it toward closer blood ties myself.
Without overwriting, I'd like to know more about why the cross-cultural marriage/affair failed. Was there a betrayal or apparent betrayal? Did one or the other get enough involved in sectarian politics to drive a wedge between the lovers? Is the the source of division an external problem or an internal problem?
I do miss the Telmori idea, but you've all come up with excellent starting points. The spectrum of Heortling-Lunar Sympathizer-Lunar offers a lot of potential.
Best,
Blake
Hello,
My current thinking is that "He's my brother and there's this triplet sister" business is too tightly linked. In a real game, I'd let it be up to you guys, but for our hypothetical model exercise, let's loosen it up a little. I have rules-reasons for this: I want to show you how multiple relationships can play a role in the game, and if we reduce the relationship-variety by collapsing it into one family, we lose a lot of potential for illustrating that point.
Anyway, here's all that needs to happen for PC creation and to finish this thread. For each character:
1) The three keywords: Culture, Occupation, Magic [each provides a ton of abilities, no need to list them]
2) The five you-pick-it abilities
3) Name the two abilities that get a 1w, and the one ability that gets a 5w. Note that these three are picked out of ALL of your abilities, whether they came from keywords or from step #2.
4) State the character's goal.
Lael
Lunar sorcerer born to Heortling father; two siblings, doesn't know them. I strongly suggest that they not be the player-characters. I am happy to suggest that one of the siblings be an important NPC; perhaps the character has already met him. Use the Dara Happan keywords (notice that you have a wide range of occupational keywords to choose from) and take Makkabeus for Magic.
Andy
Semi-lunarized Heortling warrior. This is interesting because you'd take the Seven Mothers keyword for Magic (probably Yanafal Tarnils) but otherwise have the Heortling Culture keyword. You might want to create kind of a hybrid keyword from Soldier (Dara Happa) and Warrior (Heortling). I suggest that this character be from a different area of Dragon Pass and not linked in via clan or family.
Ian
Heortling rebel-sort but married across Lunarized lines. This one is most straightforward; take one of the Orlanthi fighting cults for the Magic keyword. I also like the idea of some contact still occurring between husband and wife, no need for them to be totally estranged.
So folks, I see a very easy and straightforward situation here. Everyone seems into the "Dragonewt magic" thing. Fine; Dragon Pass is dotted with these edifices called "dragonewt plinths" which are just full o'power and weirdness. Basically, it all comes down to whom the dragonewts, in their odd and funky way, are going to permit to live and function in the area as a society. It's not like they understand or give a shit about Lunar politics, and these aren't "exiled" dragonewts who understand stuff like money and jobs. These are unreconstructed whacked dragonewts who have to be dealt with on their terms alone.
And we could come up with a whole myth about this one particular dragonewt plinth and why it's such a big deal to the area. Trust me; I'm good at that stuff. For now, say we have such a thing.
Remember, you are not creating a "group." This is why Hero Wars is neither a squad game requiring tightly-linked pre-set ties nor a meet-in-the-bar contrived thing. Think in terms of the community and the people dealing with one another there, and that's all we need. A lot of NPCs have cropped up already: a Lunar older woman, two of her children, at least one set of Lunar military units, a group of rebel or semi-rebel Heortlings (notice that they mix into the "subjected" populace quite easily), and the wife character. That's plenty for a GM to work with, especially one with a lot of relationship-map experience, to keep links plausible and not over-contrived.
Best,
Ron
Quote from: Ron EdwardsLael
Lunar sorcerer born to Heortling father; two siblings, doesn't know them. I strongly suggest that they not be the player-characters. I am happy to suggest that one of the siblings be an important NPC; perhaps the character has already met him. Use the Dara Happan keywords (notice that you have a wide range of occupational keywords to choose from) and take Makkabeus for Magic.
Ok.
Keywords:Cultural: Dara Happan Imperial Citizen
Occupation: Petty Nobleman
Repartee
(1w)Magic: Makabaeus
Scribe Circle of Lunar Power
(1w)Other Traits:Sedenya Eclipses the Sun
Dragonnewt Plinth Lore
(5w)Heortling Culture
Detect Lies
Lie
Spells: (If I read the book correctly, I choose 12 spells from the Grimoires of my Order?)
The Tome of Bleak Dispair:Heat Rock
Shatter Ice Demon
Slow Wind
Warm Body
The Tome of Grim Vengeance:Curse of Frail Iron
Curse of Impotence
Suck Soul Strength
Tap Hope
The Tome of Humility:Comprehend Rufelza's Love
Ease Suffering
Enhance Understanding
Touch with Joy
Goal: To learn about, understand, and catalog all of the details of the Dragonewt Plinths. (As a place to start.)
For my siblings, perhaps one of my siblings is an important member of the community where the game is set? Or possibly he is on a quest for similar knowledge, or is set to stop the Lunars from learning about the Dragonewt Plinths. I think that I like the first better, maybe making him a member of the local rebel forces would be interesting.
Perhaps the other could be someone that is more "on the fence" with regards to the Lunars, perhaps he is currently married to a Lunar woman and is just trying to stay out of the politics of the situation.
Lael
Lael,
Good character. Did any personality abilities come out of the keywords? Remind us all what they are. Consider also the Flaw, and furthermore, recognize that the Goal sounds more like an "assignment," so if it is the character's goal, is it because he merely has taken his mission as his personal goal (in a kind of robotic way) or is it because he's personally passionate about dragons in some way? The answers to these questions may call for slight ability revisions.
The second sibling sounds almost exactly like Ian's character - so either go with that (as Ian sees fit) OR change what the second sibling is all about.
Best,
Ron
Quote from: Ron EdwardsGood character. Did any personality abilities come out of the keywords? Remind us all what they are.
The Petty Nobleman Keyword had the Ambitious trait with it. That was the only one.
Quote from: Ron EdwardsConsider also the Flaw,...
I would like for the flaw to be related to his mother/siblings. Possibly his more promenent brother as an adversary. Since he does not really know about them yet, that would probably have to come out in play. I could also go with the distrust of the community (works both ways, he does not necessarily trust the people, and they probably do not entirely trust him.)
Quote from: Ron Edwards... and furthermore, recognize that the Goal sounds more like an "assignment," so if it is the character's goal, is it because he merely has taken his mission as his personal goal (in a kind of robotic way) or is it because he's personally passionate about dragons in some way? The answers to these questions may call for slight ability revisions.
I see it more as a personal mission. While studying in the Libraries of the Makabaean Order, he came across some tomes that gave sketchy details of some occurrances near Dragonewt Plinths. These anecdotes intrigued him and gave him something to dream about. An idea of a way that he could make a name for himself within the Order and possibly beyond. He has set out to learn as much as possible about the Plinths, and maybe the dragonewts as well.
Quote from: Ron EdwardsThe second sibling sounds almost exactly like Ian's character - so either go with that (as Ian sees fit) OR change what the second sibling is all about.
True. He could also be subordinate to Ian's character, maybe like a second in command. On the other hand, making him a local scholar or priest might also be interesting. Possibly a God-Talker or Priest of Orlanth, making him important to the community and also my opposite/equal.
Lael
Very interesting, Lael.
Your description of the motivation behind your goal sounds "Ambitious" to me.
Best,
Blake
Okay, I'm at work so I'm more or less posting off the top of my head.
Jenest
Culture: Heortling
Profession: Soldier (Hoplite) - with tweaks to reflect Heortling background - replace Loyal with Boastful, Spear & Shield with Sword & Shield.
Magic: Initiate - Seven Sisters (Yanaris thingy ;-))
Other Traits:-
Can I take to companions as traits ? Two other soldiers from my tribe and unit - one a Lunar-phile, the other a Lunar-phobe.
I'm tempted to have a single trait for a bunch of lesser companions representing the other soldiers who are from his tribe but I don't know if that is allowed/would work.
Stubborn - He's determined not to make the same mistakes his father made (in his eyes), so determined that he'll sometimes make bad decisions because his its not what his father would do. This leads to him being stubborn with authority more often than is good for him.
Charismatic - He has the charm of those who dance to their own drum. He is stubborn and headstrong and that appeals to people. His own tribe, subject to the Lunars but with some of their own rights remaining hate the compromise situation. Some want freedom, others want to fully integrate into the Lunar way of life. With his stubborness and rebellion against his father both sides seem him as a leader who could make their dreams come true. Likewise the soldiers in his unit appreciate his refusal to follow foolhardy orders.
Rating-wise, Charismatic at 5w, Stubborn at 1w and probably fighty skills at 1w.
His relationship traits include Loyalty to Clan (rather than Heortling or Lunar culture).
IS this okay ?
Hey,
Rock solid, Andy. I like the way everyone is addressing Premise without necessarily linking the characters concretely in every possible way.
Do a quick check on the keywords when you get a chance to look at the books, because the Seven Mothers and Yanafal Tarnils are both tremendously cool, and the information on them is a little sketchy - see if you can read between the lines and see how powerful they can be when the moon is full.
Just a wee point, my friends. A few years ago in Glorantha, Boldhome (the capital of Sartar) was taken by the Lunars in a stupendous battle. The Lunars won due to (1) Yanafal Tarnils military magic, which approaches Humakt in raw death-power and combines it with military organization; (2) the Lunar College of Magic, specifically the use of sorcery to channel raw lunar power to be shaped as desired (e.g. ramps for the YT soldiers to storm the walls); and (3) mercenary squads of dragonewts.
Now look at your three characters. This is the GM, smiling.
Best,
Ron
Is it just me or do you only grasp 50% of what Ron and Lael are talking about? They seem to have links that I don't have and therefore I sort of see the detail, but sort of don't.
Anyway, minor point.
With respect to Andy's last post - are we part of the same tribe/clan here? Or am I coming up with another one? Having trouble imagining the space/context we all live in.
Hi Ian,
My understanding is that Jenest, Andy's character, is not part of the local clan or tribe. He is a member of the Lunar military effort in the area, which I conceive as not being a huge army, so much as a few squads who grumble about being stuck here. (There are prostitutes in Lunar-occupied Boldhome. There aren't any here.) I think that Lael's character makes most sense as a member of the same forces, although he's probably there more by intent ("Ooh! I'll go! I'll go!") because he was born there and is passionately interested in the dragonewt stuff.
Your character, by contrast, is the home-grown one. That makes you interesting. If this were a movie or novel, it would begin with your character, and his struggle to deal with his love vs. his politics.
As for the 50% that you perceive yourself to be missing, can you give me an example? Perhaps it's easier than you think.
Best,
Ron
Quote from: Ron EdwardsMy understanding is that Jenest, Andy's character, is not part of the local clan or tribe. He is a member of the Lunar military effort in the area, which I conceive as not being a huge army, so much as a few squads who grumble about being stuck here. (There are prostitutes in Lunar-occupied Boldhome. There aren't any here.) I think that Lael's character makes most sense as a member of the same forces, although he's probably there more by intent ("Ooh! I'll go! I'll go!") because he was born there and is passionately interested in the dragonewt stuff.
Okay, that's sort of put it in perspective now that it's all in one place for my simple thought patterns :)
Quote from: Ron EdwardsYour character, by contrast, is the home-grown one. That makes you interesting. If this were a movie or novel, it would begin with your character, and his struggle to deal with his love vs. his politics.
Okay fair enough, with respect for your comment about the wife still being 'in contact' to some degree -I agree, that is in a way the whole point. If she'd gone of to the fair ends of the earth we'd just have Vampire angst - instead we have two characters with complicated dynamic neither of whom are wrong.
Quote from: Ron EdwardsAs for the 50% that you perceive yourself to be missing, can you give me an example? Perhaps it's easier than you think.
I think it is the references to places, religions, cultures and a history of the settings that you and Lael casually fling around - I don't have that depth of knowledge. If we were actually playing this could be a good thing, but it can be a bit 'wow' as part of this excercise.
As I say, not a major problem, just an observation.
With respect to my character sketch - is it now that I would include some sort of relationship trait to cover the tie to his wife?
Hi Ian,
Absolutely. One of the five abilities that you make up for the character should be a Relationship to the wife character. It also seems like a strong candidate for one of the two abilities to receive a 1w. (Whether you want to make it the character's central ability with a 5w is up to you, although I have observed most players to prefer to give that one to their character's favorite Combat or to a Magic ability.)
Other things to consider include: knowledge of the local dragonewts, perhaps a weapon or object specific to your family ('cause your character has that troubled memory of his father, and a "family axe" as a magical doodad could be neat for that) ...
As for all the setting details, feel free to ask. This is a fine game for a running list of questions. In playing HW, one of the primary tasks of play is for everyone to get Glorantha-literate, and one of the primary tasks within that is to realize that it's a process, over many sessions, and not some kind of crash-course-cram necessity prior to play.
Best,
Ron
Quote from: Ron EdwardsHistory: married across the Lunar-Heortling line. No problem. Realize that this can happen fully within the Heortling culture, with no need for the woman to be Dara Happan or foreign in any way. That's because Lunar missionaries and political treaties have been around for at least a century, to one extent or another.
Okay, some examples of missing that essential information. I married across the Lunar-Heortling line. I'm fine with that, as I obviously came up with it, but the statement 'it can happen totally within Heortling culture' has me confused - surely then there is no line? I thought Lunar and Heortling represented cultures such as Saxon or Norman? You're either one or the other.
If it can happen within Heortling culture I suppose I'm a bit confused about what the divide is? And how the woman is a Lunar?
I'm probably missing something obvious
Also is the chargen method we are using (keywords, five picks, and then two at 1w and one at 5w) actually one from the book? Not that it matters if it is some amalgamation for this demo, I'm just curious.
I've got the Culture keyword (obviously) and then the Warrior keyword, but I'm having trouble with my magic keyword - suggestions on those? Keep getting drawn to Humakti - but that's the example from the book - I'd have to have a reason for taking up such a grim religion (it sounds grim anyway). Could I have taken up this religion post-break up and tribal problems? Or would I have likely been an initiaite in something by then?
Hi Ian,
Lunar is a religion, not a culture. Think of it as spread over and helping to unify a large, multicultural empire to the north. (Similarly, Heortling is a culture, but their religion is Orlanthi, which may be found in lots of non-Heortling parts of Glorantha too.)
The culture to the immediate north is Dara Happa, which has been warring with Heortling culture for a really long time. North of Dragon Pass, it's unequivocally won the battle, now that it's Lunarized and is part of the Big Ass Empire.
Lots of Heortlings right here in Dragon Pass are now lunarized as well, to various degrees ranging from resentful lip service to wholesale fanaticism. One reason is the missionary cult of the Seven Mothers, which does very well in border territories, although its doctrines make the Lunar priests back in the Empire roll their eyes.
So this means that your character's wife could have been, well, anybody. I was suggesting - and you don't have to accept this - that both people were Heortlings, right in this area of Dragon Pass, and she converted to the Seven Mothers or perhaps another Lunar cult like Natha. Or, if you want her to be (say) a Dara Happan, Lunar from the start, who'd travelled there, that's fine too. Whatever you'd like.
Best,
Ron
P.S. More fun vocabulary, in the interest of promoting Gloranthan details: "Sedenya" is the name of the actual Red Goddess of the Lunar religion; that name refers to one of three basic aspects, the others being Rufelza (the physical moon) and Taraltara (the mystic "inner fire"); Sedenya per se is actually represented by seven separate aspects with names of their own (e.g. Natha).
The Heortlings know nothing of all this aspect-facet-many-in-one stuff and just call the whole shebang "Shepelkirt," or Poison Blood, although they are referring mainly to the moon itself.
Okay, first shot:
Kailorn
Cultural: Heortling
Occupation: Warrior
Axe and Shield (5W)
Magic: Orlanth Rex
Cajole(1W)
Additional Traits
Love for Selayna (1w)
Lunar Culture
Dragonnewt Lore
Honourable
Bind Clan
Goal: To bind his clan and regain the love of Selayna.
He is born into a clan that is classed as a 'rebel' clan - but they faced constant strife over integrating with the occupying culture or not. It was prophesised that Kailorn would marry, and the marriage would bind the tribe. This has not occurred (so far) his marriage to Selayna has split the tribe further resulting in violence. I'm imagining a bloody fight among Dragonnewt plinths(?). This may have caused Kailorn to kill/injure his father/brother-in law with his Axe (the axe is important, magical or not I don't know).
I am assuming Selayna's conversion to the Lunar's at the behest of her immediate family may be caused the split.
Kailorn views himself as a leader, and an honourable man but he wants to bind the one great tribe, as well as not loose his driving love for Selayna. He has to come to terms with the fact that this may mean compromise.
Wow Ian, you've created a paragon of Orlanthi Heroism. Classic. He's even Honourable with an English "U". How cool is that. He's got the Celtic protagonist thing written all over him. Tell me he's got blue abstract tattoos all over, and goes about barechested.
Of course the axe is important, the axe is always important. How so in your character's case? If nothing else, it can now be called something cool like "Kinslayer". Do the irremovable bloodstains on the edge haunt him?
C'mon, you guys need to finish up with starting concepts so I can discharge my one function here, and name this game.
Mike
I knew I had forgotten something about my character. A Name!
Hmmm... How about Ardavan
Lael
Quote from: Mike HolmesWow Ian, you've created a paragon of Orlanthi Heroism. Classic. He's even Honourable with an English "U". How cool is that. He's got the Celtic protagonist thing written all over him. Tell me he's got blue abstract tattoos all over, and goes about barechested.
Yeah, not sure if it was too much or not. As for the whole Slaine thing - I imagine him being a bit less 'out there' than that, armour, clothing, etc. I was going for a lot of emotion, blood and sweat.
Quote from: Mike HolmesOf course the axe is important, the axe is always important. How so in your character's case? If nothing else, it can now be called something cool like "Kinslayer". Do the irremovable bloodstains on the edge haunt him?.
I agree and that's a good idea - I like idea of the axe being both an important item because of its power (represented by the 5w) but also something haunting because of what it was used to do. As Selayna probably knows that axe killed her father/brother. I like the bloodstains idea - I'm always concerned about going over the top - but I kinda like the true iconic stuff.
What's a Slaine?
Anyway, Ron'll let you know if it's too over the top. The other characters seem a little lower key, but perhaps that can be played back and forth for contrast? Who knows, maybe they will play larger than they sound. I mean sorcery can be over the top all by itself.
But I've got a great visual on the Battle of the Plinths. I hope that stays, along with the general conflict. You've dug a nice deep hole to climb out of, which is a good start, IMO.
Mike
Quote from: Mike HolmesWhat's a Slaine?
A celtic 'inspired' comic in the UK - part of 200AD I believe - or it used to be?.
Hi there,
Good. We got'em, all three. (Yeah, bloodstains on the axe are a bit much, frankly. Maybe later.)
Now, since this is not the same as the Art-Deco exercise we did in the Sorcerer forum, we're not going to talk about pre-game prep, one-sheets, and relationship maps. Given these three characters, I have to tell you, I'm totally inspired to do it, but frankly, that's not what was requested and would be too much work/creativity to expend for a side exercise.
So we'll assume that opening scenarios and various events have resulted in the characters (a) knowing one another and (b) finding some common ground regarding the immediate problems of the time and place. No, they aren't a "group" in the RPG sense. But they are active participants in the ongoing issues of the day, in that area.
The plan is to demonstrate some of the following concepts, as they might arise and be run in play:
1) Relationships as central features of play
2) Augmenting in general, both within and across character sheets
3) Finding common ground in the rules that permit the characters to bond emotionally
3) The role of the Worship ability as well as the roles of the Affinities (for theistic characters)
4) Followers!!
5) The character improvement system - which is totally crucial to all of the above
6) Perhaps a look at how all this stuff factors into Extended Contests
7) Hero Band and Wyter formation
8) Hero Questing (probably two distinctive examples)
Now's the last chance for comments and thoughts on the characters and context of play. We'll pick up with a new thread soon.
Best,
Ron
With respect to all the relationship map stuff - if you want to do the work, I'd learn something from the process. So, if you want to do it and the other two are fine, then go for it.
If the time is not there or the other two want to skip it, then I'm fine as well. I'm just chiming is as I'm sort of the one who semi-defined the project - so I'm just saying it's okay to change it if that's what everyone wants.
It's been interesting so far.
Like Ian, I have no problems with it either way. Would be interesting to see how the map comes together, though we might be able to read the previous thread that you mentioned and get something from that.
Lael
Slaine
http://www.2000adonline.com/index.php3?zone=thrill&page=character&choice=slaine
"He killed a hundred with his left hand, and a hundred with his right hand, and he did not think it too many." - Ukko
Slaine is heavily based on Cu Chulain; in the two pics available in the link above, the one on the right is Slaine undergoing warp-spasm as the spirit of the Earth goddess fills him.
Hi folks,
Just a couple more notes before we swing into the next step. With apologies, I just don't have the time or energy to do an Art-Deco with this material. I started to, then realized I was cribbing from (and detracting from) my Riddle of Steel prep.
So let's assume that we've played for a bit. All sorts of NPCs have become known to everyone at the table, including the following:
- Kailorn's wife, Selayna - definitely a cool character; I would expend massive GM effort to engage players emotionally about her - it would depend on making it clear why Kailorn wants to be with her, that she does indeed love him very much, and the validity of her decision about religion
- Kailorn's parents (yes, I know they're dead, but they're important characters)
- Ardavan's mom (also out of the picture, but important), and certainly one of his siblings has shown up early in the story; probably one of Kailorn's rebel acquaintances (maybe even wounded and helpless!)
- the leader of the Lunar military effort in the area, and hence Jenest's and Ardavan's official superior
- the dragonewt whose job it is to speak to the humans
- any number of interesting folks who live in the area and are trying to get by
Let's also assume that there's a cool myth for the dragonewt plinth. You know what? I think we need that myth. Give me a couple of days to work one out.
Best,
Ron
P.S. Gareth, I always liked Slaine and have lots of the collections ... although my favorites are the adventures from the individual issues of 2000 A.D. and their freaky mixture of pop occult lingo and classic up-yours Celtic adventure.
hmm... and where is the continuation of this...??? i never had any experience with runQuest until recently a friend lend me a copy of the thrid edition put out by Avalon Hill.
I have read that the mechanics for Hero Wars changed very much so as to make it a whole new game. How much did it change? by what i am seeing in this thread it seems that is alot.. so i am waiting for you guys to continue this exercise so i can have a more informed base of the premise for the new mechanics and know what to expect when heroquest comes out...
Hi R.A.,
Just so you know, the thread got put on hold 'cause Ron ran a game con at DePaul last weekend -- and life got busy getting it ready.
But word is it will continue.
Now, if you're looking for good information now, I'd suggest going over to www.herowars.com . There you will find full chapters of the game available on the web. The upcoming HeroQuest will be for the most part the same game -- just cleaner and leaner.
And yes. The rules of RuneQuest and HeroWars have utterly nothing to do with each other.
One more thing: (a strange tangent, but perhaps useful), if you liked the RuneQuest material you saw but the HeroWars rules don't turn your crank, you might want to check out a new game coming out this August at www.theriddleofsteel.com . Many have likened it to RuneQuest except -- um -- better.
Hope this helps,
Christopher
Help it did, but now i have a problem...
I think i am in love... with "The Riddle of Steel"
i hate when that happens...