Right, so there are a bunch of people here who are socialist-communist to some extent. I spent most of my life as an anarcho-capitalist, even before I knew those words. And now I think I'm a communist. I'm curious what anyone else actually does to live toward that philosophy in the modern western world?
I complain loudly about George Bush, does that count?
-Andy
I make my own fun.
The way I figure it, this thing we do is radical top to bottom.
-Vincent
Right now: education. Education about the excesses and dangers of capitalism and its absolute failures to provide for the people living under its rule as individuals (which are the only thing that count).
People start freaking out when you start showing them how capitalism has failed to provide on the promises you're given in school: the whole "work hard and someday..." line of bullshit that is so much empty vapor. I mean showing, not just espousing it, but putting up the very real, very scary facts and statistics about the whole situation. It's difficult for people to believe, but hard work has very, very little to do with financial success in the majority of situations.
(Yes, it occassionally happens, which perpetuates the myth, but vastly more often than not it does not occur, which is ignored by the majority because you don't hear about it.)
And that isn't even getting into moral issues of an economy and thus a society built to consider only one's own getting ahead in life, and to either ignore the rest of society or to consider them, but only as an afterthought to that primary goal of personal success. I'm sick of watching people getting stepped on by it.
So, that, and trying to create a workable solution to the problems inherent in communism, given human nature. Oh, and voting hard-line left Democrat, because they're all about social programs: politics can help raise awareness about such issues and get people asking questions. It can also highlight where people really stand on issues very clearly by showing what they really support.
Frex, the Republican stance against the taxation of private citizens. Why? Because it's all mine. Because I don't give a shit about my country, my community, or anyone else but me. I'm going to use, use, use and expect someone else to pay for it, or use it until it runs out -- roads, power lines, schools, whatever. I don't want to contribute to my society. It's all about me.
The defense of this viewpoint is couched in different language, about hard-work and keeping what you earn, but the above is the net effect never discussed. The question is then, "Why shouldn't I keep what I earn?" To which the only response I have is then, "Why shouldn't I run your slack, parasite ass out of town, and you can make your own power, grow your own food, patrol your own streets, and maintain your own roads? Quit using our society for your own personal benefit; you're either part of our group and contributing to our collective, or you can go somewhere else and be in your own group all by yourself."
BTW, I'm Communist, not Socialist. There's a very big difference between the two forms of government. Socialist is what Russia was and China is. It is Not A Good Thing.
EDIT: Oh yes, and helping out. My wife and I do what we can for friends and neighbors without expectation of recompensation. Like JB mentions (I cross-posted), it's all about building a community structure, and like Meguey mentioned in another thread, about living in a way that shows people there is a better way, without forcibly trying to cause change.
I wanna expand on Lumpley's comment.
A lot of entertainment in modern-day Western settings carries a tendency to alienate (note, please, I don't say "inherently" or "always") people from each other. Our entertainment is provided by professionals; we don't see them developing their skills, so they seem magically talented. It's commodified, in short.
Making our own entertainment, especially our own social entertainment, is totally crucial to re-building community and fending off the over-commodification of shared community "goods" like music and games. It also engenders, IMO, better self-image, based upon core human traits; this makes people harder to oppress (whether by capitalism, communism, fascism, or whatever).
Big win all around.
Me personally, I game, I avoid over-valuing my own work that is commodified, I harp on endlessly about shared community and live in a house with more than just me and my partner (I don't have to), and I play harmonica. I'm not sure if this makes me a "socialist"--I'm pro free trade in many ways--but it does set me up in opposition, often on purpose, against the people who socialists frequently hold up for criticism.
I'm an anarcho-socialist, of the pre-Marxist variety, with no delusions a promised land. Inevitability is bullshit and anyone who says anyone can forced to be free should be shot. Of course, I'm struggling with nascent pacifism too, so that presents a problem.
What I do is put a little cooperative anarchy in each book I write. When they're published I hope to put a little seed in each reader's mind. I do believe in reward for work - so I'm waiting till I get paid for em.
I'm with Andy. I'm a bitchandmoanist.
yrs--
--Ben
Is Ralph, aka Valamir, allowed to post in this thread?
If so, let me know at least 5 minutes ahead of time. It'll take about that long to get the microwave popcorn ready.
My socialistic tendencies have gotten blurred into my general stances on environmental & social justice. Can't really separate the issues.
Somehow when I wasn't looking my dream about living in a rural commune close to the land came true. Primarily due to Vincent's sister in law. Still working on the solar panels, but it feels good to eat eggs from chickens that I see roaming free outside the window, and mutton from sheep who I know how they were killed. I regret having to drive 45 minutes each way to support myself out in the woods, but am working towards finding work close to or at home.
Honestly, I still think Gandhi said it best. We just have to be the change we want to see in the world.
best,
Em
Being a non-active member of the Dutch Green Party probably doesn't count much towards political activism.
But maybe it's in the small things. I support animal rights and the environment by not eating meat and fish. I buy 'biological' food whenever possible, for the same reasons. I try to buy products from companies that don't exploit 3rd world communities. I publish things under Creative Commons licenses and use only open source software; and help build the Wikipedia. I donate some money to environmental and 3rd world interest groups. I try to undermine our current capitalist society by not buying all the useless junk we're supposed to buy. (The last line was sarcastic rather than naive.) It's not much, but it's something.
And I agree with what others have said about RPGs in this topic! Away with the "Here we are now, entertain us"-spirit!
Quote from: greyormBTW, I'm Communist, not Socialist. There's a very big difference between the two forms of government. Socialist is what Russia was and China is. It is Not A Good Thing.
You do know that these words are usually not used this way? I consistently hear China and the former USSR called 'communist', and the left-wing parties in European politics called 'socialist'. (Although many of them seem neo-liberal capitalists to the very core.)
Wow, what a thread.
I am becoming older and less revolutionary as time goes bye, but at least I was a member of a small Marxist party (Maoist in theory, I think, before the truth about Mao's revolution dawned on us). I had Mao's collected works, but didn't survive reading but a bit of them.
I think I agree with Vincent that some roleplaying is actually a revolutionary art form and very democratic and empowering.
Oh, and me and my wife plan to build an earthship or other form of energy sustainable house.
I play frisbee.
Per
Dumbfounded... I live in a socialist country, and all I can say is it's the same old fucking garbage! I'm beginning to side with REH on how civilization in itself is doomed from the start, it's just a matter of time.
TTFN,
Yoki
I agree with Vincent and JD. One of the many reasons why I love playing RPGs is that it is unmediated fun which encourages social interaction (especially if you stress positive social interaction, which is one of the many reasons why I love the Forge) with nothing produced that is in any way consumable. That is, you have fun, and when you're done, you've got nothing but the memories of a good time.
No, most of the time we spend money on rulebooks and supplements, dice or cards and the like. But none of that is necessary in the playing of RPGs in general. And many of us will produce stuff based on our gaming experiences--but again, this isn't a necessity of the activity.
I also enthusiastically agree with Raven about taxation and the public good. Don't like paying taxes? Don't bitch when your house burns down, don't go to the police when your car is stolen, and don't get your streets repaired by the workers the rest of us pay for. Taxes are what you pay to be a member of a community, and if you don't want to pay taxes, get the hell out of my community.
And Raven's ranting about the failures of capitalism has put the song "Captial, It Fails Us Now" by Gang of Four firmly in my head. Which I don't mind at all.
Am I a socialist? A communist? Hell, I don't really know or care. I used to claim I was an anarchist (of the peaceful, Kropotkin variety), but these days, I'm just me. I think taxes are good, I think publically-supported education is a must, and I think it's obscene for a country that claims to be so advanced as the US to not have universal health care for all of its citizens.
I don't own a car, a television, hell, I don't even have a "home". I pay little to no taxes. I utilizing the few benefits of the system that apply to me while giving almost nothing back monetarily. Call it lack of community spirit if you'd like, I call it some small force for change. My community is in dire need of things money can't buy.
I don't eat meat, especially the stuff that passes for meat in your average supermarket.
I only work where I want to work. And that work has to involve a lot of education and entertainment for yours truly. Oh, and I have a strict policy of never working more than 30 hours a week. 20-25 if I can swing it.
Culture jamming is a nice hobby. I suggest looking into it.
I travel and talk to oodles of people about how I live, why I live, and how good it makes me feel.
Like Emily, my stances on the environment and social issues are all tied up in the rest.
I'm not so much a Socialist as I am a Me.
When people say "Oh, that's fine for you, since you don't have kids/mortgage/worry-of-the-week to deal with." I say "You're absolutely right." Then I say "Because I made the effort to arrange my life to be much more in line with my ideals. It's your turn."
But, it's all good. We've all got some space to fill. Damn, this calls for a hug.
-Chris
Quote from: YokiboyDumbfounded... I live in a socialist country, and all I can say is it's the same old fucking garbage! I'm beginning to side with REH on how civilization in itself is doomed from the start, it's just a matter of time.
Hey Yoki,
How often do you find junkies sleeping in your car port?
I do not agree that Sweden is a socialist country. You see, even though the elected government is dominated by the "democratic socialist party" the system we live under is still capitalism. Our economy is based on the market, not communal planning as is employed in socialist systems. It is however a very controlled form of market economy unlike, say, the United States or Australia.
Quote from: Alan
Hey Yoki,
How often do you find junkies sleeping in your car port?
Ha ha ha! Hey Alan, do you live in the U-Dist? It's so uncanny to hear this, which was my exact experience in the house we had there, and then look and see your location as Seattle. The U-Dist is a mecca for homeless kids in particular, even if not as much as parts of Portland.
Here are two planks that I consider of primary and immediate importance:
- Support the ability for large numbers of people to organize and act: Class action lawsuits (wonder what "Tort Reform" is really all about?), increased union power, international cooperation among the working class to insert ethical and moral requirements into the globalization movement, election reform including protections against unauditable voter equipment, the removal of partisan agents from the voting process, and the complete removal of money from the electoral process.
- Support the ability for people to share information transparently and freely: Repealing key parts of the PATRIOT act (if not the whole damn thing), protection of free speech against the fear and hatred, an unregulated internet, undermining the elements of mass media controlled by corporate propagandists, a reinvigoration of civics education in the public school system, support for improvements in public education and resistance to efforts to undermine it, and a truly transparent government that can't get away with the kind of shit that the U.S. does in Iran, Iraq, Central America, Haiti, Venezuela, at home with Cointelpro (which is thriving today under a different guise) etc. because all of the books are on the table.
Without a healthy infrastructure like this, the obstacles to progress are truly daunting and a lot of the mechanism you might think are vectors for change really aren't. That's why I think it is important to get this country's house in order first before moving on to the real agenda. The best part about this is that there is really no defensible position against these reforms that does not rely wholly on a destructive self interest. It also suggests an alliance with libertarians on some key issues, which would shield them from criticism from the right.
By the way, in polite company communists now fall under the umbrella category called "progressives." The term can help get people to listen to you when otherwise they might shut you out entirely when they hear a certain word. ;)
Quote from: Victor GijsbersYou do know that these words are usually not used this way?
Yep, and that is exactly why I put that disclaimer in there. I'm using the terms as defined by the dictionary, not the terminology as usurped for purposes of propaganda.
You may or may not know this, but the reason the countries you mention called
themselves "communist" is because it was politically better for them to do so: (real) communism is a nicer form of government than socialism (which is more-or-less feudalism in drag, and hence NAGT).
Oh, and by the way I find the whole idea of the Marxist dialectic interesting in light of the fact that the world's oldest large scale economics were centrally managed - Egypt for example - and hunter and gatherer culture is communalist in nature. It served as a clever and valuable piece of propaganda though, even if not accurate.
Quote from: kenjibOh, and by the way I find the whole idea of the Marxist dialectic interesting in light of the fact that the world's oldest large scale economics were centrally managed - Egypt for example - and hunter and gatherer culture is communalist in nature. It served as a clever and valuable piece of propaganda though, even if not accurate.
Hunting and gathering – primitive abundance
Capitalist society – systemically-maintained scarcity
Communism – relative abundance
Me? I teach high school.
Quote from: AlanHow often do you find junkies sleeping in your car port?
You had a carport?
Luxury!Mind you, I lived on the Eastside; the junkies probably didn't like the commute.
Now,
I was never taught that "socialism" was a swear word. In Saskatchewan, we were primarily what I think of as "social democrats," getting along capitalistically with a (parliamentary) democratic government that favoured, y'know, fairness and stuff. Or at least government intervention in the distribution of wealth.
Is Ralph gonna sound off soon? Cause I don't have microwave popcorn yet, I have to run out to buy it first.
Emily's the only one living on a commune?
Emily, how's that work? How big is it? What percentage of the members work full time outside the organization? Does everyone have a house or do you live in big dorms? etc. (I'm sure if I'm prying, you'll let me know.)
I've been researching intentional communities (communes, housing coops, ecovillages...) (modern and faintly historical) for a year or two. I think it would be kind of cool if y'all would move somewhere convenient and we could set up the Living Forge or something. Or at least it's a nice fantasy. :)
Hey Chris,
If you haven't already found it, here's the link for the Intentional Communities Website (http://www.ic.org).
I've been to Earthaven in North Carolina, I'll be visiting The Farm in Tennessee a couple weekends from now, and I'll be staying at Lost Valley when I go to Oregon at the end of the month. The Hostel in the Forest near Brunswick in Georgia also has a very commune type feel to it.
Do you have a copy of the Communites Directory (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0960271481/qid=1112979976/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-8322268-2268008)? It can be a useful resource for someone interested in intentional communities.
-Chris
Yup, got the book and website. Visiting The Farm would be very exciting given the age and significance.