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Independent Game Forums => glyphpress => Topic started by: Jason Morningstar on August 31, 2005, 09:12:34 AM

Title: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: Jason Morningstar on August 31, 2005, 09:12:34 AM
So ... Under the Bed gets a lot of buzz, and a lot of people I respect rave about it.  There are neat UtB ads in the back of cool new games I got at Gen Con.  But beyond a paragraph of ad copy, I have no idea what it is about, or how it works, or if it would be fun for me.  Your Web site doesn't help. 

So what's the deal?  What's the single coolest thing about it?  Sell me on your game!

Thanks,

Jason
Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: Joshua A.C. Newman on August 31, 2005, 12:48:54 PM
Geez, what is this, GenCon? ;>

It's a game about toys defending their children from the things children fear. The game assumes that children are afraid because things can hurt them. Things like monsters, bullies, and abusive parents.

What I like most about the game is that players universally bring their own greatest fears to the table and play with them.

The mechanics of the game favor tragedy, and success is almost always bittersweet.

What else can I tell you? What gets you jazzed?
Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: Jason Morningstar on August 31, 2005, 01:40:22 PM
Hey thanks, I didn't mean my question in a bellicose way.  I'm genuinely curious.  UtB sounds like a very intense experience.  Does play take place through a lens of magical realism?  Can your toy directly confront a bully?  Are the fears always well founded?  Are there actual play posts somewhere?  Thanks,

--Jason
Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: GreatWolf on August 31, 2005, 02:13:59 PM
Also, I'm curious how Under the Bed compares and contrasts with Little Fears, assuming that you are familiar with the latter work.
Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: Eric Provost on August 31, 2005, 02:51:31 PM
Lisa and I were fortunate enough to get a playtest of UtB.  We loved it. 

QuoteWhat I like most about the game is that players universally bring their own greatest fears to the table and play with them.

When I first read that line I felt skeptical about it's validity.  But almost immediately I realized it was totally true.  In our short play our child came up against bullies, being lost, and security guards.  Easily three of the top things that scared me when I was that tall.  Stunning stuff.

I expect to get a copy soon.  I want to use it to introduce some people to gaming that has no geekdom.  The only reason why we didn't pick it up thirty seconds after we playtested it was the pricetag to prettyness ratio.

-Eric
Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: Joshua A.C. Newman on August 31, 2005, 06:36:12 PM
Quote from: GreatWolf on August 31, 2005, 02:13:59 PM
Also, I'm curious how Under the Bed compares and contrasts with Little Fears, assuming that you are familiar with the latter work.

I'm familiar with it, but I don't really want to comment on it. Suffice to say that they're very different games, about different things. Buy Little Fears, too!
Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: Joshua A.C. Newman on August 31, 2005, 06:51:11 PM
Quote from: Eric Provost on August 31, 2005, 02:51:31 PM
Lisa and I were fortunate enough to get a playtest of UtB.  We loved it.

Glad to hear it!

Quote
QuoteWhat I like most about the game is that players universally bring their own greatest fears to the table and play with them.

When I first read that line I felt skeptical about it's validity.  But almost immediately I realized it was totally true.  In our short play our child came up against bullies, being lost, and security guards.  Easily three of the top things that scared me when I was that tall.  Stunning stuff.

It's even more true when you're playing with your friends, whom you trust. When playing at the con, I was amazed by how willing people were to open up and tell me what scared them when they were little, but when I play with my friends, their active, adult fears come up, as well.

Quote
I expect to get a copy soon.  I want to use it to introduce some people to gaming that has no geekdom.  The only reason why we didn't pick it up thirty seconds after we playtested it was the pricetag to prettyness ratio.
Quote

Yeah, part of the experiment of Under The Bed was to see how much I could sell it on game content alone. I'm a graphic designer and know very well how a book design sells a game - I did both Mountain Witch and Dogs in the Vineyard - but I was being deliberately low-budget on UTB.
Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: GreatWolf on September 01, 2005, 01:42:20 AM
Quote from: glyphmonkey on August 31, 2005, 06:36:12 PM
I'm familiar with it, but I don't really want to comment on it. Suffice to say that they're very different games, about different things. Buy Little Fears, too!

Uh, let me be a little clearer.  I own Little Fears.  In fact, I did some of the writing for it.  So, I'm fairly familiar with LF.  However, the sum total of my understanding of Under the Bed is the ad in the back of Polaris and the fact that I happened to spend about 45 seconds touching Ralph's copy.  (Just got back from his house.)  When I saw the ad in Polaris, I thought, "Huh.  Someone else is taking a run at doing Little Fears again."  I'm not looking for you to diss LF to pump up your game; rather, I want you to disabuse me of my first impression.  Apparently you see the two games as being very different; I'd like to share your understanding.

Can you help me out?  Please?

Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: Ben Lehman on September 01, 2005, 04:50:37 AM
Uhm... so I'm not Joshua.

Don't take anything I say to be his opinion or an official statement from glyphpress.  I'm no more than a big fan of Under the Bed who has also read Little Fears.

Little Fears, in short, is a horror game.  The fear and the center of the game comes from great big supernatural bogies from beyond space and time.  If real people do bad things, it is ultimately linked back to the big supernatural bogies.  These bogies are the central conflict of the game.

Under the Bed is not a horror game.  It is a game about real life.  While the players can introduce genre elements (fantasy, horror, ghost story, whatever), these serve as emotional buffers against the central conflict of the game which is, quite simply, whatever real childhood troubles the players bring to the table.

yrs--
--Ben
Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: GreatWolf on September 01, 2005, 09:12:34 AM
Ah, that seems to make sense.  So the default setting of Under the Bed is "the real world", not "the real world plus Closetland".

That helps a lot.  Thanks!
Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: Joshua A.C. Newman on September 01, 2005, 10:46:01 AM
Thanks, Ben.

Seth, the default setting is fairly fantastical. Talking toys, monsters, and the like. The way the game deals with them, though, assumes that they represent real things that you experience and particularly things you experienced as a child.

Many fun and tense games I've played in have had fantastic elements - talking swamps, Messerschmidt dragons, and walking around in train set towns - but those are the medium, not the message.

So, yeah, I read Little Fears, but I didn't find it to really approach the subject I was after, though it had amazingly similar color. For what it's worth, I was already working on UtB when I first came across Little Fears, and knew what I wanted to confront and how.
Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: GreatWolf on September 01, 2005, 11:07:41 AM
Thanks, Joshua.  That helps explain a lot.

By the way, while I did not have the chance to look over the rules at Ralph's yesterday, I thought that the format was particularly interesting.  It's not everyday that you see an RPG that could be packaged as a card game.

Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: Joshua A.C. Newman on September 04, 2005, 12:16:15 PM
Quote from: GreatWolf on September 01, 2005, 11:07:41 AM
Thanks, Joshua.  That helps explain a lot.

Great. If you have a chance to play, particularly with close friends, I'd really appreciate an AP report.

QuoteBy the way, while I did not have the chance to look over the rules at Ralph's yesterday, I thought that the format was particularly interesting.  It's not everyday that you see an RPG that could be packaged as a card game.

It's true, and while it probably doesn't hurt internet sales that it's that format, I'm pretty sure I lost shelf sales at GenCon because it's so small.

Shock will come it two sizes: regule (6 x 9 or some such) and a pocket size. I like the idea that you can cram a game in your pocket. I sure wish that the game books I'd had as a kid didn't require backpacks to lug around.
Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: MichaelCurry on September 06, 2005, 09:46:33 PM
Quote from: glyphmonkey on September 04, 2005, 12:16:15 PM
Quote from: GreatWolf on September 01, 2005, 11:07:41 AM
By the way, while I did not have the chance to look over the rules at Ralph's yesterday, I thought that the format was particularly interesting.  It's not everyday that you see an RPG that could be packaged as a card game.

It's true, and while it probably doesn't hurt internet sales that it's that format, I'm pretty sure I lost shelf sales at GenCon because it's so small.

Can you describe the format of UtB a bit more, for those of us who haven't seen a copy for ourselves?
Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: Kirk Mitchell on September 06, 2005, 10:06:18 PM
I remember this game! Way back in its early development. I can't remember the name though... I got really excited over it (I wanted to play it with my old childhood stuffed animals and action figures, making them jump around the room and stuff). I guess its time to get excited again! Unless I'm really confused and am thinking of a totally different game, which would really suck because it looked cool. Also, I'd look like an ass, but I am an ass, so it doesn't really matter.

Either way, you've sold me.

Kirk
Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: Joshua A.C. Newman on September 06, 2005, 11:14:15 PM
Quote from: MichaelCurry on September 06, 2005, 09:46:33 PMCan you describe the format of UtB a bit more, for those of us who haven't seen a copy for ourselves?

Sure. It's a deck of cards, about 2.75" x 5.5", with an instruction book the same size. It comes shrinkwrapped with the book on the front. There are 42 cards, I think. They're glossy black and white.
Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: Joshua A.C. Newman on September 06, 2005, 11:26:46 PM
Quote from: Kirk Mitchell on September 06, 2005, 10:06:18 PM
I remember this game! Way back in its early development. I can't remember the name though... I got really excited over it (I wanted to play it with my old childhood stuffed animals and action figures, making them jump around the room and stuff). I guess its time to get excited again! Unless I'm really confused and am thinking of a totally different game, which would really suck because it looked cool. Also, I'd look like an ass, but I am an ass, so it doesn't really matter.

Either way, you've sold me.

Excellent!

This game's been in development since February 2004, when I posted an early sketch (http://www.livejournal.com/users/nikotesla/2004/02/01/), totally unlike where it wound up.

I hope you enjoy the game. You can can obtain the it by burying a bag containing $16, out by the old tree - you know the one? Yeah, that one. Bury it under there. I'll come pick it up and put the game in the hole, sealed in the skin of a rabbit. Or you can get it from the glyphpress (http://www.glyphpress.com/) site. Whichever one's easiest.
Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: Kirk Mitchell on September 07, 2005, 08:31:16 AM
<looks in the mirror> Well, now that I've opened my mouth, I guess I'll have to admit it looks like an ass to me. The one I was thinking of was back in early 03, if I remember correctly. Similar concept, only there was no emphasis on the toys being shards of the child's psyche. Instead they were the "real" defenders of the child from the bad things in the night. Still, as I said, you've sold me, and I don't get un-sold. Also the game being totally awesome looking. I actually like your idea better.

I think I'll go for the online purchase. Unless you want to come to the old tree over here in Australia. Yeah, that one... Didn't think so.

Kirk
Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: MichaelCurry on September 07, 2005, 10:11:15 AM
Quote from: glyphmonkey on September 06, 2005, 11:14:15 PM
Quote from: MichaelCurry on September 06, 2005, 09:46:33 PMCan you describe the format of UtB a bit more, for those of us who haven't seen a copy for ourselves?

Sure. It's a deck of cards, about 2.75" x 5.5", with an instruction book the same size. It comes shrinkwrapped with the book on the front. There are 42 cards, I think. They're glossy black and white.

That sounds pretty cool, and, combined with the many good things I've read about the game, it's enough
to get me to place me order....
Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: Joshua A.C. Newman on September 07, 2005, 11:18:26 AM
Quote from: Kirk Mitchell on September 07, 2005, 08:31:16 AM
<looks in the mirror> Well, now that I've opened my mouth, I guess I'll have to admit it looks like an ass to me. The one I was thinking of was back in early 03, if I remember correctly. Similar concept, only there was no emphasis on the toys being shards of the child's psyche. Instead they were the "real" defenders of the child from the bad things in the night. Still, as I said, you've sold me, and I don't get un-sold. Also the game being totally awesome looking. I actually like your idea better.

You maaay be thinking of Little Fears, mentioned elsewhere in this forum. It's a different game, to be sure.

QuoteI think I'll go for the online purchase. Unless you want to come to the old tree over here in Australia. Yeah, that one... Didn't think so.

That's not the one I meant.

QuoteThat sounds pretty cool, and, combined with the many good things I've read about the game, it's enough
to get me to place me order....

Thank you for your purchase!

Also, as a warning to anyone else following this thread, my shipping cost will go up a bit later today, so order now if you want the old shipping price!

Why couldn't the game have been popular in, I dunno, Kentucky? Why Finland, Denmark, England, Japan, and Australia? Those places are expensive to ship to!
Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: Kirk Mitchell on September 07, 2005, 07:20:03 PM
No, not Little Fears. Totally different. But that isn't the point. The point is now I have to go and buy your damn game!

Kirk
Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: Chanticrow on September 11, 2005, 03:56:59 AM
I picked up UtB at GenCon along with MLWM and kill puppies for Satan.  Each one has totally turned my brain around and provided new perspectives on gaming.

UtB is the only one I've had a chance to play so far.  I didn't do a demo.  One of the guys at the booth (Tony, maybe?) started describing the game to me, and I was immediately sold.  I'm happy to report that it lives up my expectations.

My group of six played a Stephen King flavored game that moved very quickly once we got the hang of it.  We played by narrating both the toys and the child when appropriate, allowing the rolls to determine who proceeded with the next section of narration in the current scene.  UtB worked very well for us.  It set up a framework for the storytelling, provided an interesting challenge resolution that no one found unfair, and let the game run without getting in the way.

At one point my opposition was the child's own rumbling stomach.  What's not to like?
Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: Kirk Mitchell on September 11, 2005, 07:58:23 PM
As I understand Under the Bed, Stephen King style stories would be absolutely perfect. Particularly ones like The Body or It. The stories about being a child, the power of imagination and Growing Up.

Kirk
Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: Joshua A.C. Newman on September 11, 2005, 09:16:09 PM
I don't know It well at all, but The Body is just the kind of thing I thought about when designing UtB.

I'm glad you like it! Did I meet you at the con? Who are you?
Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: Chanticrow on September 11, 2005, 10:02:57 PM
QuoteI'm glad you like it! Did I meet you at the con? Who are you?

Sorry, no, we didn't meet, which I now find unfortunate.  I'm Edward, a game designer/freelancer with Laughing Pan Productions, and I do mostly card and board game design.  During one of my brief chances to wander the hall at GenCon I ran across the Indie RPG booth.  That was my first introduction to the Indie RPG group and their related products, though I'd heard about The Forge not long before.  I'm so glad I happened to stop in at the booth, and sad I didn't get a chance to hang out a while.

I immediately gravitated to the description of UtB because my girlfriend and I are both just big kids.  We love stuff like Little Fears, and I'm not ashamed to say I still get teary-eyed when I read the end of Peter Pan. UtB was a natural attraction. 

The Stephen King themed game did work out really well.  I would also like to try something along the lines of Thief of Always.  I have some friends that love to play darkly dramatic Changeling, usually with minimal dice and character sheet use, and I'm looking forward to introducing them to UtB and MLWM.  I'll report on how UtB goes over.

Thanks for the great game.  I'm looking forward to seeing how Shock turns out.
Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: Joshua A.C. Newman on September 11, 2005, 11:12:11 PM
Then welcome to the Forge, then!

I'd love to see your Actual Play report. Let us know how the Thief of Always - style game goes, too.
Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: motherlessgoose on September 15, 2005, 07:15:26 AM
Quote from: glyphmonkey on September 06, 2005, 11:14:15 PM
Sure. It's a deck of cards, about 2.75" x 5.5", with an instruction book the same size. It comes shrinkwrapped with the book on the front. There are 42 cards, I think. They're glossy black and white.

So are the cards used for resolution?  What are on the cards?  Can you describe the resolution mechanics?

Is the game collaborative in any way, like Pool or Universalis?
Title: Re: [UtB] Sell me, dude
Post by: Joshua A.C. Newman on September 15, 2005, 11:14:08 AM
The cards are your character sheet. They are the personality traits your toy embodies. They equal dice when your toy is confronting a Conflict.

The collaboration is dramatically different from that in Universalis, but collaboration, it is. I've never playe The Pool, so I can't really comment on that.

Resolution's a complex thing, which is why there are cues in the game: so you don't have to keep it all in your head. It pits the Favoritism of one toy against the Characteristics of another. The player narrating the Conflict rolls one die for each Favorite token, with a Characteristic named for each one. The Protagonist toy of the moment narrates how each of their Characteristics is being used to confront the Conlfict, then rolls them all at once. Highest die wins, giving a +1 on the next roll or resolving the conflict if there is no next roll.

That's the sum. More detail would require writing the book here in this forum, and I want to do other things instead.

There's a place you can get the answers in detail[/a], though! (//glyphpress.com)