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General Forge Forums => Conventions => Topic started by: Kat Miller on May 15, 2006, 10:08:04 AM

Title: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: Kat Miller on May 15, 2006, 10:08:04 AM
Hi, I'm Kat Miller, Event Organizer for Games On Demand.

I've heard for the last couple of years that the crowding of the booth could be reduced if there was a reliable and close area set up for pick-up game play.  As I understand it Gen Con has issues with the word "Demo" and they're in the business of selling time in two- hour increments for $1.50 a ticket.  So setting up space for this outside the dealer room is an issue.  Also Gen Con tries to provide Pick-up Game space but in my experience its either been elusive or too far from the dealer room to be useful. 

Games on Demand is an experiment to see if the booth can benefit from a reliable play space outside the dealer hall while respecting and following the Conventions Policies of collecting tickets for events.

What exactly am I providing?
2 tables
1 Table Custodian
3 slots of 4 hours Thursday to Saturday starting 10am and ending 10pm. 
1 Slot on Sunday running 10am-2pm slot.

The  "Table Custodians"  are that slot's assigned GM.  These volunteers will bring selection of Indie Games they feel competent in running during their shift.  Some have already decided what Games they will run at a certain shift.  I believe That Hans Messersmith is running a Capes Fest Friday 6pm-10pm.

Table Custodian Duties:
Running a game if players show up
Collecting tickets. 
Settling New groups that show up with GM.
Collecting Tickets from all but their GM.
Mark down the time Games Start.
Let new groups know when their time is up.
Fill out paper Work and put tickets in envelops I will Provide.
List Games running on Provide White board and when a New slot will begin for people who show up while he already has a game in progress.

The Table Custodian will not be leaving his table to coral players in the Dealer room.

No one will be summoning Game Designers from the Booth to run their Games at the GoD tables.


If you're not a Game Designer actively selling at the booth,
And the booth is getting crowded.  And you won't be missed for a couple of hours,
Come to the Games On Demand table, with a game and a few willing players.

It is my intention to provide these tables as a positive cluster of indie gaming.
It would be nice if game designers wanted to take their breaks at the Table but there will be NO Summoning.  This whole thing is about providing a service for the Booth, not being another Burden to the designers.

Things I am not worried about:
5 people showing up all wanting to play different games.
30 people showing up wanting to play the same game.
Nobody showing up.
Somebody showing up demanding a specific game, and wanting it run by the designer.
   
I will be providing a white board and Easel for the Tables so the Table Custodian can write down what he is playing and when it started and when it should end and what others are playing and when they started and when they should end.

I'd be happy to have more Gm volunteers.  Show up with what you want to run.  And while I kind of like the runner idea, I also kinda don't.


I don't want runners between the room and the Booth to become pests to the booth. 

I hope this clarifies what the Games On Demand is about and how I expect it too work.

How can Games on Demand better serve the Booth?
Suggestions on improving communication between the Booth and the Tables in a way that will not burden or pester the Booth is welcome.   

-kat
Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: TonyLB on May 15, 2006, 12:01:58 PM
Same tables every slot?

If not ... same room every slot?
Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: Kat Miller on May 15, 2006, 12:16:36 PM
As far as I know Same room, same table



-kat
Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: TonyLB on May 15, 2006, 04:26:59 PM
Heh.  I had a whole bunch more questions (Can we set up banners?  Serve food?  Alcohol?) but I realized that what I probably need is to look carefully at the GenCon rules.

So here's a few policies I've noticed that may be relevant:
Here's what else I noticed on the GenCon site:  their publicity planning for "events within the event" appears to be substantially behind ours.  Yoinks.  Scary, in a sense, but also a terrific opportunity.

For instance, they have yet to post anything in "RPG Highlights."  If we make positive contact (restrained, respectful, helpful and above all through a single spokesperson) I suspect that we could get the Gaming-on-Demand track mentioned at least in passing (possibly prominently) in the information they eventually put there.

Likewise, they have a Forum.  Are we on that forum?  I do not yet have any presence on that forum.  I will attempt to remedy that lapse in the days and weeks to follow.  Being part of that community (not merely a shill for our own interests, but actually engaged and connected) is an invaluable resource.  I recommend that more people than just me make the investment of time and energy.
Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: Michael S. Miller on May 16, 2006, 06:43:29 AM
sigh.

I'm beginning to understand why Ron & Luke's posts about the booth take on the tone that they do. I guess Kat and I have been too circumspect in our phrasing in previous posts. Let's try it again.

To Tony, Ben, Justin, etc.: Thanks, but PLEASE STOP HELPING

The 2006 Games On Demand is a prototype. This sort of unscheduled, ticketed event has NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE AT GENCON. No one knows if it will work. Or how it will work. Or how well it will work. The GenCon staff has been understanding and gracious enough to allow us 2 tables (8 chairs apiece, that means 16 chairs total) with which to make this experiment. Considering the extremely tight space-situation that GenCon faces, this is very generous of them. Abusing that generosity will not endear us to GenCon.

Putting too many demands on a prototype is the surest way to see it fail.

I don't want a hundred people showing up with their generic tickets in hand, each one looking for one of those sixteen seats. Turning away more people than we can serve is a great way to (rightfully) earn Games On Demand and the Indie Games Explosion the reputation of being all-talk and no-action. That's a great way to turn us from being innovative and exciting to being a trouble-maker and fire hazard in the eyes of GenCon.

I don't want that reputation.

Save your ideas for G.O.D. 2007. If we succeed this year, then we can grow. Just like the Forge booth started with a handful of people in 2002 and built on its successes.

So, please, let the Games On Demand remain small, exciting, fun, and ground-breaking. Mention it to people in person at GenCon. But, until August 10, please, stop helping.
Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: Hans on May 16, 2006, 09:11:18 AM
Quote from: Kat Miller on May 15, 2006, 10:08:04 AM
I believe That Hans Messersmith is running a Capes Fest Friday 6pm-10pm.

If a "Capes Fest"  (http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=19631.msg205892#msg205892) happens, it happens.  However, I will still be performing my assigned duties, as described by Kat, so other stuff can certainly occur during the same period.  It will just mean people will have to be somewhat restrained in their boisterous enthusiasm so that we can all hear each other.
Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: Emily Care on May 17, 2006, 11:04:59 AM
I'm just curious, where will the tables be?
Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: Kat Miller on May 17, 2006, 11:12:44 AM
Quote from: Emily Care on May 17, 2006, 11:04:59 AM
I'm just curious, where will the tables be?

That I don't know yet.  I've been informed that the Games on Demand have been accepted and that I will have two tables for up to 16 people, but not what room they will be in or if they will switch rooms on different days.  Since they are treating the tables like any other event, I'm not likely to learn this until my arrival at Gen Con. 

-kat
Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: Jason Morningstar on May 17, 2006, 11:55:49 AM
Quote from: Kat Miller on May 15, 2006, 10:08:04 AM
How can Games on Demand better serve the Booth?
Suggestions on improving communication between the Booth and the Tables in a way that will not burden or pester the Booth is welcome.   

Kat, this is awesome and I want to support you.  From past experience, are cell phones or two-way radios a practical way of maintaining contact?  What's the network situation - any chance of maintaining a live chat/IM conversation between the two locations?  Please forgive me if these are naive questions.  I really have no idea. 
Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: Thor Olavsrud on May 17, 2006, 11:58:20 AM
Quote from: Jason Morningstar on May 17, 2006, 11:55:49 AMKat, this is awesome and I want to support you.  From past experience, are cell phones or two-way radios a practical way of maintaining contact?  What's the network situation - any chance of maintaining a live chat/IM conversation between the two locations?  Please forgive me if these are naive questions.  I really have no idea. 

Signal in the convention hall is neglible at best. Don't count on being able to receive calls at all. Last year, our Internet access in the convention hall was...intermittent. You cannot count on it.
Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: Emily Care on May 17, 2006, 12:00:34 PM
That I don't know yet.  I've been informed that the Games on Demand have been accepted and that I will have two tables for up to 16 people, but not what room they will be in or if they will switch rooms on different days. 

Cool. Thanks, Kat.  If it moves, we can let people at the booth know where the current location is. I'd like to help (when we get there!) too. :)

best,
Em
Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: Blankshield on May 17, 2006, 02:25:57 PM
last year I had low signal, but relatively stable connectivity on my BlackBerry in the hall.  But that's a BB, which has it's own set of issues south of 49 these days.

However, from what I've been reading in this thread, I don't think there is a need for immediate and constant connection between GoD and the booth.  Can someone present a good and valid need that doesn't run counter to the things that Kat has posted above, for either GoD or the booth to be available to the other on no notice?

thanks,

James
Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: Justin D. Jacobson on May 18, 2006, 08:31:43 AM
Quote from: Michael S. Miller on May 16, 2006, 06:43:29 AM
sigh.

I'm beginning to understand why Ron & Luke's posts about the booth take on the tone that they do. I guess Kat and I have been too circumspect in our phrasing in previous posts. Let's try it again.

To Tony, Ben, Justin, etc.: Thanks, but PLEASE STOP HELPING

The 2006 Games On Demand is a prototype. This sort of unscheduled, ticketed event has NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE AT GENCON. No one knows if it will work. Or how it will work. Or how well it will work. The GenCon staff has been understanding and gracious enough to allow us 2 tables (8 chairs apiece, that means 16 chairs total) with which to make this experiment. Considering the extremely tight space-situation that GenCon faces, this is very generous of them. Abusing that generosity will not endear us to GenCon.

Putting too many demands on a prototype is the surest way to see it fail.

I don't want a hundred people showing up with their generic tickets in hand, each one looking for one of those sixteen seats. Turning away more people than we can serve is a great way to (rightfully) earn Games On Demand and the Indie Games Explosion the reputation of being all-talk and no-action. That's a great way to turn us from being innovative and exciting to being a trouble-maker and fire hazard in the eyes of GenCon.

I don't want that reputation.

Save your ideas for G.O.D. 2007. If we succeed this year, then we can grow. Just like the Forge booth started with a handful of people in 2002 and built on its successes.

So, please, let the Games On Demand remain small, exciting, fun, and ground-breaking. Mention it to people in person at GenCon. But, until August 10, please, stop helping.

I hope this doesn't come as defensive, but I guess I just don't get the response. If by "stop helping" you mean "stop making suggestions about how to improve the GoD experience" that seems short-sighted to me. Feel free to ignore the suggestions, but I don't get the idea of not wanting to hear them.

As an adjunct to that point, I think you should be much less concerned about having so many people show up that it flames out than about having so few people show up that it comes off as lame. If a gazillion people show up, there are enough people affiliated with the Forge that we can find a way to accomodate. Hell, I'll run a game out of my suite if I have to. Having too much demand is a nice problem to have and one that can be easily remedied. My 2cp.
Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: Kat Miller on May 18, 2006, 10:29:21 AM
Hi Justin,

Mike was not out of line.

16 seats and 2 tables is NOT a lot of space to fill at Gen Con.

To my thinking many of the Indie Games run better with 2-4 players.  Maximum play would be 4 small indie games running at the tables.

One of my goals for the Games on Demand Event is to alleviate Forge overcrowding due to customers who have already made purchases and now hang around the booth because its a cool place to be, and they want to play.  A Booth monkey or Volunteer can then lead those people up to the Games on Demand table.

If the Games on Demand tables are already loaded up, then I may have succeeded in one sense but I would have failed in another sense.

Quote from: Justin D. Jacobson on May 18, 2006, 08:31:43 AM
If a gazillion people show up, there are enough people affiliated with the Forge that we can find a way to accommodate. Hell, I'll run a game out of my suite if I have to. Having too much demand is a nice problem to have and one that can be easily remedied. My 2cp.

See, this is what I DON'T want.  Specifically that part about "enough people affiliated with the Forge..."
That makes my event a Burdon to the Forge Booth rather than a Boon

Its great that as a Game Designer your willing to for go sales by coming to the aid of the Games on Demand Tables to run several Games On Demand sessions in your own suite.  I'm not sure that many of the other Game Designers trying to sell their games would be as happy to be volunteered to do the same.   

The other thing is that I love Forge People.  Tony was not just making suggestions, He was going to put money into postcards.  I love him for that, but for this first Games on Demand I want to make sure that it can serve the Booth.  If it can't then I'm not interested in any further development of it. 

I've also read the Gen Con rules, Ive contacted the right people both at Gen Con and at The Forge.  I've given them my parameters and made it small because its experimental if through your "help" it gets out of control, then because of my affiliation with the Forge booth, it could damage relations between Gen Con and those affiliated with the forge later. 

So don't be defensive.  Mike was trying to be clear.  I tried nice clear earlier.  Nice is not clear.

-kat

Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: TonyLB on May 18, 2006, 12:19:03 PM
Kat,

I, for one, get the message.  Too many cooks, yes, but more to the point too much soup.  Our energy could easily make the event into something so big that it sabotages itself.

I hope you'll understand, in turn, that you can expect help from booth-folks without fearing that you'll burden the booth.  I know that I shouldn't be at the booth all day (even though I want to) and I'm looking around for other things I'd like to be a part of in GenCon during my downtime.  GoD is one of those things (in fact, the first among ... well, not many, but a few). 

So, no postcards, no ninjas-for-GoD, none of that stuff.  Cool.  We don't want to flood the engine.  Good thinking.  Is there anything we can be thinking about doing to make GoD work more smoothly at the size it's planned for?  I can think of suggestions, but (hard as it is for me) I think I'll hold off until you have a chance to either ask for them or decline.
Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: Ben Lehman on May 18, 2006, 01:05:29 PM
What Tony said.  I'm really excited about GOD as a thing unto itself, and also as a very needed pressure alleviator for the Forge Booth.  I want to make it work out for how you want it to work and not destroy it.

The way I figure it, if I'm using Games on Demand to run a game for three Polaris fans who've already bought their stuff:
1) That's no burden on me.  I like running Polaris.  It relaxes me.
2) I'm doing an important service for the booth -- four people who would be clogging up the space by chatting are instead off somewhere else enjoying themselves.

yrs--
--Ben
Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: Justin D. Jacobson on May 18, 2006, 02:16:18 PM
I see where you're coming from, Kat. If the "no help" comment was directed to a perception that Tony was going to run out and buy postcards, I understand your point. Again, I'm not being defensive; I don't feel sleighted by the comments. It just seems to me that suggestions that can aid the cause should be solicited and considered. Obviously, it's up to you to decide what suggestions have merit and what suggestions might pose a potential problem, but wouldn't it be better for you to do that than to say no suggestions please?

In particular, the suggestions I made in the other thread would help create an aura around the event without drawing too large a crowd. Is there any reason I couldn't give a 10% off coupon for Passages to someone playing in a Passages GoD? Is that something you would discourage? Do you think doing t-shirts of some kind would potentially create a problem for the event? If anything it would be nice for GoD administrators to be easily identified by wearing something of that ilk.
Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: Paul Czege on May 18, 2006, 02:25:10 PM
Hi Kat,

16 seats and 2 tables is NOT a lot of space to fill at Gen Con.

To my thinking many of the Indie Games run better with 2-4 players.  Maximum play would be 4 small indie games running at the tables.

So potentially two simultaneous games at the same round banquet table?

Paul
Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: Jason Morningstar on May 18, 2006, 02:25:33 PM
Word. 

Definitely don't be shy about asking for anything you need - I don't see how what you are doing is a burden at all.  Ultimately it will drive both sales and goodwill if it works right, so it is in everybody's interest to make sure that it does.  I will be glad to lend a hand, run some games, or stay the hell out of the way as instructed!
Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: Kat Miller on May 18, 2006, 03:42:02 PM
Quote from: Paul Czege on May 18, 2006, 02:25:10 PM

So potentially two simultaneous games at the same round banquet table?


I've asked for rectangle tables rather than the Round ones. 
Like they have in the board game room.  I thought that two games run simultaneously on the rectangle tables would be better than two run on one round table.  As far as I know I will have two long tables in an rpg room.




Ben -
I want the tables to serve so that you can bring people up to the table, I do not want the tables to be used that while pitching Polaris at the booth you are robbed out of 2 hours of potential sales because you get summoned to the Table.  Having read the Booth rules you guys have to do a half-day shift.  Being called up to the Game table is not really an option.

However, the part of the day your not supposed to be there, and you want to hang out at the god tables.  I'll be glad to seat you.   Bring some of the forge crowd with you.  Make appointments with cluster people.  "Meet me at the God table at 4, I'll run this for you."

That is how I want this to work.

Jason-

I'll have to check Gen Con rules about the Coupon thing.  The idea is sound, but there might be a Gen Con problem with it. If there is no problem with the Convention about this, there is no problem with me.
I love the T-shirt idea,  I just don't know if I can afford it. I haven't done any research into it.

-kat
Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: Hans on May 18, 2006, 04:09:04 PM
Quote from: Kat Miller on May 18, 2006, 03:42:02 PM
However, the part of the day your not supposed to be there, and you want to hang out at the god tables.  I'll be glad to seat you.   Bring some of the forge crowd with you.  Make appointments with cluster people.  "Meet me at the God table at 4, I'll run this for you."

Just to make sure I (and Andrew and Thor and Thomas) understand the process here, the above should read "Meet me at the God table at 4, bring your generic tickets, I'll run this for you."  Right?
Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: Paul Czege on May 18, 2006, 04:23:51 PM
I've asked for rectangle tables rather than the Round ones.
Like they have in the board game room.

Excellent. I had forgotten about those tables.

Paul
Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: Andrew Cooper on May 18, 2006, 04:28:13 PM
Quote from: Hans on May 18, 2006, 04:09:04 PM
Quote from: Kat Miller on May 18, 2006, 03:42:02 PM
However, the part of the day your not supposed to be there, and you want to hang out at the god tables.  I'll be glad to seat you.   Bring some of the forge crowd with you.  Make appointments with cluster people.  "Meet me at the God table at 4, I'll run this for you."

Just to make sure I (and Andrew and Thor and Thomas) understand the process here, the above should read "Meet me at the God table at 4, bring your generic tickets, I'll run this for you."  Right?

That's the way I understand it.  I've been told to collect tickets and club anyone who doesn't have them with the GoD stick.  And I really, really like clubbing people.

Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: TonyLB on May 18, 2006, 05:04:43 PM
So, in the interest of helping GoD fulfill its goals as smoothly as possible, two things:

Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: Andrew Cooper on May 18, 2006, 05:11:32 PM
Quote from: TonyLB on May 18, 2006, 05:04:43 PM
So, in the interest of helping GoD fulfill its goals as smoothly as possible, two things:


  • I'm fine with providing multiple pre-generated scenarios (batches of characters, some plot threads, some intro text) that are tuned to a two-hour time period (rather than the 15 minute time period my demo is tuned for).  Would this be useful to the folks at the table?
  • Also, I have the sense that a lot of the time in such games is spent (one might say "wasted") with everyone sitting around the table boning up on the rules.  Would it help to have reference cards of the major rules that players could bone up on (perhaps with the help of one of us eager beavers) away from the table, and then refer to at the table?  Or would that cut into the "on Demand" thing too much?

Tony,

I will take what ever playaids and reference material you can fling my way.  Capes is one of the major games I will be running at GoD.  I will also be doing Burning Wheel, TSoY and Sorcerer and Great Ork Gods (if someone wants a fairly quick, light-hearted game).  I will be downloading a metric shit-ton of material for all these games but any cool stuff from the designers is more than welcome.  After all, you guys have more experience demoing your games than I do.

Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: Andrew Cooper on May 22, 2006, 01:27:05 PM
I just realized that I had a question that needed to be answered.  The GoD tables are there to assist/complement the Forge Booth, correct?  In this case, should we only run games that are being sold at the Forge Booth?  I ask this because I put in Great Ork Gods as one of the games I'd be willing/able to run but I don't think it is getting sold at the booth.

Title: Re: Games On Demand - Whats it all about anyway?
Post by: Kat Miller on May 22, 2006, 03:25:06 PM
Quote from: Gaerik on May 22, 2006, 01:27:05 PM
I just realized that I had a question that needed to be answered.  The GoD tables are there to assist/complement the Forge Booth, correct?  In this case, should we only run games that are being sold at the Forge Booth?  I ask this because I put in Great Ork Gods as one of the games I'd be willing/able to run but I don't think it is getting sold at the booth.

Good Question!

The Games won't be restricted to just the Games sold at the Booth.
Any Indie Games are welcome.  Some Games that aren't Indie, but also aren't "Mainstream" are also welcome.

The reason I don't want "Mainstream" games at these tables, is because there are so many other opportunities to play them.  If you want to run a Everway game which is not Indie - as its not owned and published by the designer, I'm allowing the Table Custodian's judgement on the matter. 

I myself will be offering Everway during my shift as Table Custodian. 

Use your judgement. 
-kat