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Inactive Forums => Bob Goat Press => Topic started by: Aaron on July 16, 2006, 10:57:31 PM



Title: Questions from a newbie
Post by: Aaron on July 16, 2006, 10:57:31 PM
Hi,
I picked up Conspiracy of Shadows and the Companion recently and have some questions.  I have had a look at some other threads which answered some other things but I'm a little unsure on the following

1> "Players do not need to roll dice when their character is going to open doors of eat a meal"  I undertand that dice are only rolled when there is a conflict,  In the above quote what if the door was locked or the meal poisoned?  Is that a conflict? If so how would it be resolved?  If not what might be the outcome?

2> With the above in mind how do you gauge the use of skills which don't have apparent conflict applications?  Academics, Artistry, Craft, Folklore?

3> Are the goon skill levels simply rolled instead of worrying about skills levels and stats? 

4> Could a player take a descriptor like "I react as quick as a cat" and get the +1 bonus dice on initiative tests?

5> Would the example character with "My aim is true from horseback" be a better shot from his horse than on foot?

6>Does vitality lost through intellectual damage heal at the standard recovering damage rate?

7> I read in another post that the target in missile fire would oppose using his mellee skill(?)  Would you let him have the bonus dice when using a weapon described in his descriptor?  the descriptor just seem so powerful.

Thanks in advance.  I'm hoping to get a game going soon.

Aaron


Title: Re: Questions from a newbie
Post by: Keith Senkowski on July 17, 2006, 06:12:58 AM
Hey Aaron,

Thanks for buying the books.

"Players do not need to roll dice when their character is going to open doors of eat a meal"  I undertand that dice are only rolled when there is a conflict,  In the above quote what if the door was locked or the meal poisoned?  Is that a conflict? If so how would it be resolved?  If not what might be the outcome?

Alright.  A locked door in of itself is not a conflict.  However, if Alexander is trying to unlock the door and get in the room before the guard comes down the hall, that is a conflict.  A conflict requires another party.  You are never facing the poison, the door, or the mountain.  You are facing the assassin, the coming guard, the man you tracked into the mountains.

With the above in mind how do you gauge the use of skills which don't have apparent conflict applications?  Academics, Artistry, Craft, Folklore?

The key is context and what you are trying to accomplish.  For example I might be trying to convince a farmer to let me and my boys hide in his barn for the night.  I might try to convince him I am another farmer like him in need, drawing on craft.  I might try to draw on some local legend with folklore. 

Are the goon skill levels simply rolled instead of worrying about skills levels and stats?
Yup.  Goons just roll whatever their dice are.

Could a player take a descriptor like "I react as quick as a cat" and get the +1 bonus dice on initiative tests?
I don't see why not.  Well I do.  If the conflict has nothing to do with being quick as a cat, like say convincing members of parliment that the king is possed by a demon or some shit.

Would the example character with "My aim is true from horseback" be a better shot from his horse than on foot?
It is possible that he might be.

Does vitality lost through intellectual damage heal at the standard recovering damage rate?
Yes.  However we have been working on a new system in play and it works really well.  The penalties only last til the end of the conflict.  Afterwards, instead of penalty dice, the character gets a negative descriptor appropriate to the conflict.  It lasts for the recovery time, instead of having say three penalty dice for a damn long time...

I read in another post that the target in missile fire would oppose using his mellee skill(?)  Would you let him have the bonus dice when using a weapon described in his descriptor?  the descriptor just seem so powerful.
All depends on the context really.  If Alexander is deflecting arrows with his dad's sword, which he has a descriptor with, sure.  It seems powerful right, but remember two things.  You can make bad ass characters as enemies and the Cell is doomed from the beginning anyway, so what does it matter if they do something cool for a time.  It won't stop them from ultimately failing... ;)

Hope these answer your questions.  Don't hesitate to throw more my way.  And make sure to come back and tell us how your game is going when you get it started.

Keith


Title: Re: Questions from a newbie
Post by: Sinistraphobia on July 18, 2006, 08:06:54 PM
Quote
Yes.  However we have been working on a new system in play and it works really well.  The penalties only last til the end of the conflict.  Afterwards, instead of penalty dice, the character gets a negative descriptor appropriate to the conflict.  It lasts for the recovery time, instead of having say three penalty dice for a damn long time...

I like that alot Keith.  What kind of negative descriptors are we talking about?



Title: Re: Questions from a newbie
Post by: Matt Wilson on July 19, 2006, 06:00:28 AM
Quote
Afterwards, instead of penalty dice, the character gets a negative descriptor appropriate to the conflict.  It lasts for the recovery time, instead of having say three penalty dice for a damn long time...

For example, if you hang out with Keith after-hours at GenCon, you'll most definitely get yourself a negative descriptor afterward.


Title: Re: Questions from a newbie
Post by: Keith Senkowski on July 19, 2006, 06:51:45 AM
Yes.  I believe I have given Wilson, Burns when I pee as a negative descriptor more than once.

But game mechanics-wise, the descriptor has to be something tied to the loss in the conflict.  So the one dude in our Apocalypse playtest got shived in the arm so he took something like dead arm for his negative descriptor...


Title: Re: Questions from a newbie
Post by: Dom on July 19, 2006, 01:47:23 PM
Keith,

Just to clarify, are you looking at the negative descriptors for all conflicts or just the mental style ones like the one resulting in intellectual damage mentioned earlier?

Cheers,

Dom


Title: Re: Questions from a newbie
Post by: Matt Wilson on July 19, 2006, 03:32:12 PM
Yes.  I believe I have given Wilson, Burns when I pee as a negative descriptor more than once.

Man, think of all the homophobes who are never going to buy your game now.


Title: Re: Questions from a newbie
Post by: Keith Senkowski on July 19, 2006, 07:23:33 PM
Dom,

We are using it for all Extended Conflicts.  The reason is that the physical and social/mental constantly come into contact in extended conflicts.  Talkign down a guy trying to kill you and shit like that.  So far playtests show it to be working like a charm.


Wilson,

If that statement doesn't do it, the limey queen in NYC sure will with his hawking of the game...

Keith


Title: Re: Questions from a newbie
Post by: Dom on July 19, 2006, 10:01:46 PM
Thanks, it makes sense!


Title: Re: Questions from a newbie
Post by: rrees on July 23, 2006, 02:33:17 AM
Hmmm the negative descriptor for combat damage is a much better idea than having to skip on weeks or months while people claw back a functional number of penalty dice. Does move the game more towards the narrative style again, which is no bad thing but quite a long way from the original game.

So when is the Revised Revised (or will it be 3rd Edition?) coming out with all these new ideas you're working on?


Title: Re: Questions from a newbie
Post by: Keith Senkowski on July 23, 2006, 08:04:41 AM
Robert,

It will be rolled into Conspiracy of Shadows: Apocalypse, which has morphed into exactly what an Apocalypse is, a revelation.  A sort of how to guide, plus new stuff like this damage system, chase scene mechanics, and so on.  The current due date is October/November.


Title: Re: Questions from a newbie
Post by: Dom on July 23, 2006, 12:33:29 PM
And that was post number 666 ;-)


Title: Re: Questions from a newbie
Post by: Dom on July 26, 2006, 10:09:51 PM
Keith,

A question on Destiny Points - when looking at character development, it is mentioned that it costs 6 Destiny Points to gain a new skill at Rank 1. How many points does it cost to increase a existing skill? Is it 6 per rank, or is it less for skills you already have?

Thanks,

Dom


Title: Re: Questions from a newbie
Post by: Dom on July 26, 2006, 10:16:37 PM
Oh, and the DP reference was on p23.

A question on the Disarm Conflict Modifier... how long does the effect last for? I assumed (when I did the cribsheet) that it was similar to Bind and lasted fro the rest of the exchange.

If it's different, I'll please 'guilty as charged' and change the crib-sheet.

Cheers,

Dom


Title: Re: Questions from a newbie
Post by: Dom on July 26, 2006, 10:23:34 PM
And another one...

If a character looses a simple exchange, do they suffer vitality damage? I didn't see anything that suggested they would, but the extra examples you posted on the wiki seemed to suggest that you would expect the character to escalate the conflict to an extended one at such a point.

Thinking of an example - say the character tries to initimidate a goon to let him into a private meeting, but gets turned away (looses the roll). Would it be appropriate - especially with the new negative descriptor idea - to give them the vitality loss (I guess loss of face) and/or a negative descriptor if they loose bad (e.g. you get picked up by the bouncer and encouraged to leave by being banged against the wall several times leaving you in a poor way!)

That's all for now!

Dom


Title: Re: Questions from a newbie
Post by: Keith Senkowski on July 27, 2006, 11:17:01 AM
A question on Destiny Points - when looking at character development, it is mentioned that it costs 6 Destiny Points to gain a new skill at Rank 1. How many points does it cost to increase a existing skill? Is it 6 per rank, or is it less for skills you already have?

Dom,

If I recall corectly it is a flat 6, be it for new or existing skills.

On the flip side, Apocalypse will be offering an alternate way of dealing with advancement and DP earning and the like that I think is a bit more intuitive.  We are in playtesting it and so far the playtesting is going very well.


Title: Re: Questions from a newbie
Post by: Keith Senkowski on July 27, 2006, 11:20:01 AM
A question on the Disarm Conflict Modifier... how long does the effect last for? I assumed (when I did the cribsheet) that it was similar to Bind and lasted fro the rest of the exchange.

Yes it is similar to Bind in that regard.  It is assumed that after the exchange the opponent will either regain the weapon or improvise some shit.  When I wrote it up I felt it would be a little silly, with how conflicts are resolved so abstractly to worry about it takes X turns to pick up Y weapon and so forth.


Title: Re: Questions from a newbie
Post by: Keith Senkowski on July 27, 2006, 11:23:51 AM
And another one...

If a character looses a simple exchange, do they suffer vitality damage? I didn't see anything that suggested they would, but the extra examples you posted on the wiki seemed to suggest that you would expect the character to escalate the conflict to an extended one at such a point.

Thinking of an example - say the character tries to initimidate a goon to let him into a private meeting, but gets turned away (looses the roll). Would it be appropriate - especially with the new negative descriptor idea - to give them the vitality loss (I guess loss of face) and/or a negative descriptor if they loose bad (e.g. you get picked up by the bouncer and encouraged to leave by being banged against the wall several times leaving you in a poor way!)

The character has the choice to escalate it if he wants to.  So you wack me good in a simple conflict, and instead of just accepting that I escalate it.  Problem is you wacked me good, so I suffer from a Vitality loss from the Simple conflict as if it had been the first exchange of an extended conflict.

However, if I accept the loss in the Simple Conflict, I just suffer the effects of the stakes et before hand.

Also only named characters can escalate it to an Extended conflict of exchanges right.

Does that make sense?


Title: Re: Questions from a newbie
Post by: Dom on July 27, 2006, 01:56:55 PM
And another one...

If a character looses a simple exchange, do they suffer vitality damage? I didn't see anything that suggested they would, but the extra examples you posted on the wiki seemed to suggest that you would expect the character to escalate the conflict to an extended one at such a point.

Thinking of an example - say the character tries to initimidate a goon to let him into a private meeting, but gets turned away (looses the roll). Would it be appropriate - especially with the new negative descriptor idea - to give them the vitality loss (I guess loss of face) and/or a negative descriptor if they loose bad (e.g. you get picked up by the bouncer and encouraged to leave by being banged against the wall several times leaving you in a poor way!)

The character has the choice to escalate it if he wants to.  So you wack me good in a simple conflict, and instead of just accepting that I escalate it.  Problem is you wacked me good, so I suffer from a Vitality loss from the Simple conflict as if it had been the first exchange of an extended conflict.

However, if I accept the loss in the Simple Conflict, I just suffer the effects of the stakes et before hand.

Also only named characters can escalate it to an Extended conflict of exchanges right.

Does that make sense?

So if I get this right: If you stay as a simple conflict, the only 'penalty' is that you loose the conflict and your opponent gets their desired outcome. If you escalate, you take the Vitality loss straight away that you would have taken if the simple conflict had been the first exchange of an extended conflict, then carry on from there as normal extended conflict?


Title: Re: Questions from a newbie
Post by: Dom on July 27, 2006, 01:57:42 PM
A question on the Disarm Conflict Modifier... how long does the effect last for? I assumed (when I did the cribsheet) that it was similar to Bind and lasted fro the rest of the exchange.

Yes it is similar to Bind in that regard.  It is assumed that after the exchange the opponent will either regain the weapon or improvise some shit.  When I wrote it up I felt it would be a little silly, with how conflicts are resolved so abstractly to worry about it takes X turns to pick up Y weapon and so forth.

That makes sense. :-)

D.


Title: Re: Questions from a newbie
Post by: Keith Senkowski on July 28, 2006, 06:59:03 AM
So if I get this right: If you stay as a simple conflict, the only 'penalty' is that you loose the conflict and your opponent gets their desired outcome. If you escalate, you take the Vitality loss straight away that you would have taken if the simple conflict had been the first exchange of an extended conflict, then carry on from there as normal extended conflict?

Right you are.  Once you escalate it follows the usual order (initiative etc.)


Title: Re: Questions from a newbie
Post by: Dom on August 01, 2006, 12:32:13 PM
Q. Can you change the skill + attribute pairs in between actions of the exchange in an extended conflict?

I assumed yes at Continuum, as it just reflects a change of approach/argument.


Title: Re: Questions from a newbie
Post by: Dom on August 01, 2006, 12:35:12 PM

Does vitality lost through intellectual damage heal at the standard recovering damage rate?
Yes.  However we have been working on a new system in play and it works really well.  The penalties only last til the end of the conflict.  Afterwards, instead of penalty dice, the character gets a negative descriptor appropriate to the conflict.  It lasts for the recovery time, instead of having say three penalty dice for a damn long time...

Q. Using this, would the Vitality recover to full immediately after the conflict once the negative descriptor was given?


At Continuum, we decided as a group what an appropriate descriptor was based on how badly someone was mangled! Seemed a good way to do it.


Title: Re: Questions from a newbie
Post by: Keith Senkowski on August 01, 2006, 01:52:58 PM
Q. Can you change the skill + attribute pairs in between actions of the exchange in an extended conflict?

I assumed yes at Continuum, as it just reflects a change of approach/argument.

Oh yes.  You can change it from exchange to exchange.  What fun would it be if I couldn't disarm you with a witty remark about what I did to your sister in a sword fight?


Title: Re: Questions from a newbie
Post by: Keith Senkowski on August 01, 2006, 01:54:17 PM

Does vitality lost through intellectual damage heal at the standard recovering damage rate?
Yes.  However we have been working on a new system in play and it works really well.  The penalties only last til the end of the conflict.  Afterwards, instead of penalty dice, the character gets a negative descriptor appropriate to the conflict.  It lasts for the recovery time, instead of having say three penalty dice for a damn long time...

Q. Using this, would the Vitality recover to full immediately after the conflict once the negative descriptor was given?


At Continuum, we decided as a group what an appropriate descriptor was based on how badly someone was mangled! Seemed a good way to do it.

That is how we are doing it in playtest too.