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General Forge Forums => Endeavor => Topic started by: Kevin Allen Jr on August 15, 2006, 04:51:51 PM

Title: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: Kevin Allen Jr on August 15, 2006, 04:51:51 PM
So after some observation of other designers and talking to some folks (thanks Shreyas) I had this idea for a design contest:

Thesis-
Speaking generally, the last thing in most RPG books is a character sheet. Character sheets are the thing that players most use to interface between the design of the game and actual play. Character sheets have ranged from beautiful and elegant to ugly and neigh-useless. The design of these play-tools should be pushed further, not just asthetically but also their relationship to the games they belong to.

The challenge- Design a character sheet. NOT A GAME. Just a character sheet. You have 2 weeks to do this. Everyone may submit a design, but they may only submit 1.

At the end of the two week entrance period the sheets will be randomly distributed to the designers (you will not get your own). Using only the character sheet as a guide, the designers will have an additional 2 weeks to design a game that uses that character sheet.

The designers will then reveiw the games and vote on a winner using set criteria (all designs will be posted on the web for public veiwing).
Some sort of cool prize awaits, and certainly the accolades of your peers.
Character sheets may be sent to my email: kevin_allen_jr AT hotmail DOT com. Please send PDFs if able, other formats are fine, they are just more work for me.

start of contest Aug 14. Character sheets accepted untill midnight Aug 28. Design assignments will be given out on the 29-30 (don't worry, they will all be released at the same time, i just want to give myself a window to get the work done). Completed designs must be submitted by Sept 13.

If you only want to design one half of the contest:
i'm gonna say yeah, go ahead, it looks like a pretty even split between folks who want to design just sheets and just games. If you ONLY want to make a game, just send me an email saying so, that way you get a sheet when they are all submitted.

if this ends up being grossly unbalanced (i get 10 sheets and 3 people who want to design games) people who designed sheets and games will get preferential treatment. I don't know what to do if the scales tip the other way. Suggestions?

as to including a game name on the cha sheet, yeah thats a little lame, but i don't think illustration or symbology is. Do with that what you will.

i'm very interested to see how chaotic and abstract these sheets get, and then how the games wrangle them together.

To work, you monsters.
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: iago on August 15, 2006, 05:42:11 PM
I'm terribly intreeeeegued.  I'll probably be up for it.
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: thwaak on August 15, 2006, 06:19:28 PM
Count me in.
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: marknau on August 15, 2006, 06:49:13 PM
I've sent you a sheet. Please clarify how much text (if any) we should be using in creating the sheets.
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: iago on August 15, 2006, 10:05:47 PM
My sheet's sent in.  Gods help whoever gets it. :)
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: Darcy Burgess on August 16, 2006, 01:38:50 AM
This is awesome fun.  My sheet's in like Flynn.

Here's the sister thread (http://www.story-games.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=1098&page=1#Item_0) over at Story-Games.

Did I mention that I'm stupid-level giddy with anticipation?

Giddy I say!
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: NeuroZombie on August 16, 2006, 01:17:09 PM
OMG... This is right up my alley as I really do like creating character sheets, and sheets are honestly the first thing I look at for any new rpg that I come across. I am in, so long as I can find the time!

:(  Working a comic-con this weekend, so....
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: Zach on August 16, 2006, 04:16:15 PM
Quote from: marknau on August 15, 2006, 06:49:13 PM
I've sent you a sheet. Please clarify how much text (if any) we should be using in creating the sheets.

I concur. Many useful sheets these days contain the core rules of the game, leaving the receiver of such a project with little to do but add color and expand upon any apparent paradoxes.
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: BeUrgaust on August 16, 2006, 04:30:55 PM
Mine is in! and I got pip happy.
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: Dustfather on August 17, 2006, 01:06:39 AM
Mine is in too!
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: thwaak on August 18, 2006, 01:54:25 AM
OK, got my character sheet in to Kevin. I'd like to apologize now for whoever gets my sheet. Heh.
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: Kirk Mitchell on August 18, 2006, 08:31:05 AM
I sat down and cranked out a tasty treat. This is why I should not listen to Modest Mouse or Mogwai. Printing it on a laserjet printer would be best, so the paper won't get soggy.

Love,
Kirk
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: BeUrgaust on August 21, 2006, 04:59:33 PM
Oh seven days and I'm itching to get one of these sheets.
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: NeuroZombie on August 23, 2006, 09:06:09 AM
Quote from: BeUrgaust on August 21, 2006, 04:59:33 PM
Oh seven days and I'm itching to get one of these sheets.

Yep :)
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: gwangi on August 23, 2006, 11:23:31 AM
Some of you who provided sheets are just plain cruel! A lot of the sheets are awesome, but I look at some of them and think "Please God Nooooo!" I laughed my head off at the one that had Wm. Shatner's picture on it, at the end of some sort of life path. Very funny.
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: Agent_Fresh on August 25, 2006, 01:03:19 AM
Just fired mine off.
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: Tomas HVM on August 29, 2006, 09:37:10 AM
Got sick, and so I did not do the sheet until today. Hope it's not too late...
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: Dustfather on August 29, 2006, 06:04:00 PM
So we getting sheets soon? :)
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: Tomas HVM on August 30, 2006, 02:44:36 PM
Looking forward to the challenge now! Some of the sheets looks to be pain in the a... to design a game from, but I kind of hope one of them will blow my way anyhow. Can't be worse than a complete failure whatever sheet I get, and it may be that the worst sheet is a blessing in disguise...
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: Kevin Allen Jr on August 30, 2006, 05:45:51 PM
Alright, the fix is in. (http://www.kevinallenjr.com/reverseengineer/reversed.html) Part 2 has begun

Get cracking you beasts, make a game, send it to me when your done. You have till Sept 13th.

You must work alone; but you may talk with anyone you want about any part of the process. Games are better when they aren't made in a vacccuuume. BUT, lets put a big no-go on talking to the original designer of the sheet. You can't ask them for advice AND as the designer of a sheet, you can't offer it to the person makeing your game.

Asking for the font or image files is fair, though.

I use to many capitol letters.

We will work on voting on sheets when we work on voting on games. That PART 3, silly.

To the salt mines you slugs!
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: NeuroZombie on August 31, 2006, 04:26:00 PM
I am so screwed with the sheet that fate has handed me!  LOL!
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: Dustfather on August 31, 2006, 08:01:25 PM
Oh my, my, my :) Ok, to get cracking on a game for this sheet.
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: BeUrgaust on September 01, 2006, 03:48:39 PM
I didn't get a sheet back. :(
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: Kevin Allen Jr on September 01, 2006, 04:59:58 PM
Mike, you are designing a game for Carl Muckenhoupt's sheet.

If you believe you were left out, go back to my site to check there has been updates of the list (if everything was kosher for you, don't worry, nothing has changed.
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: BeUrgaust on September 02, 2006, 04:17:02 AM
Oh okay, and Carl you're just mean!!
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: Dustfather on September 06, 2006, 05:35:50 PM
Well, this is taking me a little longer than I thought it would... you are an evil man Mr. Cleaver!
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: NeuroZombie on September 07, 2006, 08:40:39 AM
I have tried two different approches to my sheet and just cannot seem to get a workable RPG... I could probably do a board/card game out of it but... :(
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: andrew_kenrick on September 07, 2006, 11:48:58 AM
Neurozombie - could you somehow merge the idea you had for a board/card game with an rpg concept? Who's to say that the two can't overlap?

Which sheet did you end up with anyhoo?
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: BeUrgaust on September 08, 2006, 01:31:32 AM
I'm having troubles pulling what the abbreviations on the character sheet for the main stats mean. It seems from the rest of the sheet that language itself is a primary mechanic but I can't figure out the following are abbreviations for:

IRA
INV
AVA
LUX
GUL
ACE
SUP

Could I get suggestions from everyone except Mr. Muckenhoupt.
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: thwaak on September 08, 2006, 11:02:28 AM
Quote from: BeUrgaust on September 08, 2006, 01:31:32 AM
I'm having troubles pulling what the abbreviations on the character sheet for the main stats mean. It seems from the rest of the sheet that language itself is a primary mechanic but I can't figure out the following are abbreviations for:

IRA
INV
AVA
LUX
GUL
ACE
SUP

Could I get suggestions from everyone except Mr. Muckenhoupt.

The easiest thing to think of is grab a dictionary and look up those three letters for each and see what words follow. For example:

SUP leads to Superior, Supportive, Superlative, Supreme, Supper, Suppose, Supposition....

If the game is about language, then look through a dictionary and take words that relate to language that start with your 'prefix'.

Good Luck
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: Dustfather on September 08, 2006, 03:01:00 PM
Dang...not sure if I am going to pull through. I am weak :)
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: NeuroZombie on September 08, 2006, 07:54:47 PM
Quote from: andrew_kenrick on September 07, 2006, 11:48:58 AM
Neurozombie - could you somehow merge the idea you had for a board/card game with an rpg concept? Who's to say that the two can't overlap?

Which sheet did you end up with anyhoo?

This one: http://www.kevinallenjr.com/reverseengineer/william%20burke.pdf
Title: Re: The reverse engineering challenge
Post by: BeUrgaust on September 19, 2006, 01:56:59 AM
Don't feel bad dust it doesn't look I am either. :(