Hi All! The forum seems to have slowed down just a bit in the past couple of days, so I thought I'd toss this out to generate some discussion...
Anyone have any adventure ideas for The Riddle of Steel that you'd like to share with the rest of us? Especially something that's well-suited to the feel of the game. I'm guessing that combat encounters won't be a large part of the offerings, considering the lethatlity of such matters in the game... :-)
Brandon
Hi
I'm working on an adventure based on the song 'Tam Lin' in which a pregnant woman rescues her lover from the elves who plan to sacrifice him to hell. I propose that the characters have been charged with the return of the knight and have only the one shot at it based on what the woman tells them. The elven knights ride on one night of the year and to rescue the human knight he has to be pulled from his horse and then hidden. Faliure means facing a very angry faeire queen and her elven knights. Hearing or reading the song helps here of course. The song turns up in a few good books on English folk tales.
Just in general, I think it's important to keep in mind that TROS adventures have to be pretty vague. After all, the characters' SAs have to be plugged in, and that takes care of a lot of design right there.
If I ever get a chance to run TROS during this geological era (not bloody likely... grr), I have an opening structure I think would work well as an introduction.
The first session the Seneschal gives the players pregenerated characters with the understanding that in the near future they would be allowed to make their own characters. Part of the first session would be spent explaining the mechanics (which onestly won't take too long I don't think).
The adventure: the characters are various people on a caravan of some kind. Maybe its a merchant caravan, maybe its the entourage of a traveling noble. Whatever. The characters are different characters in thr group. A guard here, a teamster there, etc. The adventure would have some minor conflicts, plenty of chances to use skills to make the journey easier or quicker, etc. Let them get used to roleplaying in the world. Point out some differences in cultures present ("Oh, don't talk to that guy... he's from Stahl and his good mood is your bad mood").
.............and then the ambush happens.
Put simply, give them some kind of a drawn out combat. Maybe they're ambushed on a road. Maybe in an inn, and they get to try to defend themselves from within a structure. Either way, set up the combat to ensure strategy will become an obvious thing of utility.
*grin* and then kill them all.
Make it clear this is a storyline, make it clear they are all making their own characters, and encourage them to have fun with the idea of a last stand. This is a chance for some really ugly combat, an excuse to use a ton of SAs, and a chance to create some good roleplaying moments.
After everyone's characters are dead, sit down and go over character creation. The premise of the new group of characters is they are investigating the disappearance of the caravan. I'd probably have someone on the caravan have a diary that was hidden and that the PCs could find. This would allow their new characters to find out what happened, and would get rid of some potentially nasty problems about character knowledge.
This allows people to see how the system works, get a feel for at least a section of the setting, and gives some great starting points for Spiritual Attributes (such as "Drive: Avenge my brother's death" or something)
I can recommend the following adventures from Atlas Games: Three Days to Kill, Belly of the Beast and Maiden Voyage.
They are written for D&D3e but I used them in a ROS style campaign. They all have a similar style and feel. They all involve:
1. Magic is presented as rare and evil,
2. Only races besides humans presented are Orcs, Demons and Ghosts,
3. The are gritty, low level and reasonably open ended (I linked them simply as the PCs were a mercenary band for hire).
Three Days to Kill ends with a raid on a manor that attempts to introduce real combat considerations (ambushes, snipers, diversions, traps) to D&D. I would love to play it again using Riddle.
Quote from: Nevermet*grin* and then kill them all.
Make it clear this is a storyline, make it clear they are all making their own characters, and encourage them to have fun with the idea of a last stand. This is a chance for some really ugly combat, an excuse to use a ton of SAs, and a chance to create some good roleplaying moments.
That's great! I'm doing it next game! With established characters! (Well, all the characters are new, but it'll be these character's first adventures). Honestly, though, I really, really like that idea. It's cold, to-the-point, and gears up for some great story and SAs. And the blood! It will definitely teach the Players what TROS combat really is.
Ok, I'm stoked now...going back to write on bestiary...
Jake
Glad you like it! :)
It seemed like a very effective way to introduce people & characters to TROS
::Quickly grabs his character sheet::
::Gets far away from Jake::
Here's a thought... I wonder how common the typical "dungeon crawl" will be in TROS? It could be a whole new look at the musty underearth parts of gaming... Maybe the future will see some TROS info on traps and treasures?
Brandon
The image that is summoned to my mind by the term 'dungeon crawl' is something I wouldn't associate with tROS very easily. I'm not sure if we're using the same definition.
When I think dungeon crawl, I think a group of adventurers in AD&D enter an underground complex (usually controlled ultimately by an evil spell-caster of some form), and while down in this complex, they:
1) kill a LOT of inherently evil critters that are not human (Or necessarily humanoid)
2) encounter various puzzles and traps
3) Get rich / acquire magic items.
in general, I can't see this working very well in tROS. For one thing, the way combat is set up, its simply impossible to wade through the number of baddies that are in a D&D dungeon crawl. The only way it works is if the players decide to attack the Old HobGoblin's Hospital for the Dismembered.
2) traps/puzzles fit in nicely with tROS... as long as they're something special. Traps make sense in places where there won't be many guards (sealed tombs and whatnot)
and well... the riches and luxuries from a D&D dragon's horde would probably be the GDP of Ferrenshire for a year or two.
I hope this didn't come across as a flame... were you using a different standard of what a dungeon crawl was?
Nevermet,
I haven't decided on the exact idea, but I'm definately going to follow the theme of killing people in the next few weeks. I intend to do this in two steps:
1) Have them do an ambush that succeeds. The old guard captain orders them around a bit. This allows them to see something cool, and eases them into the combat system.
2) Attack them. I'm not even going to bother with an ambush; I know my players, and they never even consider running from anything.
Once I've done these things, they can roll new characters and try again.
I'm probably going to do all this as part of the "Gelure overruns Farrenshire" 1-shot I mentioned in the other thread. I'll do a preliminary scenario before Gelure invades (Gols have raided, maybe), and then kill'em with the invasion. Once I do that, they can reroll, and they can have fun playing cat and mouse with sorcerous armies.
Best part for me is that I envision Farrenshire's chivilrous military dying en-masse to the initial Gelure invasion; sort of like Agincourt, but w/magic instead of arrows. Then their rerolls can be the type of Farrenshire citizen that didn't die in the first wave.
-Jeff
Nevermet:
I realized when I posted that message that I might be interpreted as trying to bring TROS to D&D. Don't worry, I don't consider your message a flame, I agree with you more or less. Of course, my definition of a dungeon crawl is slightly different. Primarily because I play D&D differently than most of the "current generation" of gamers. Examples:
1: Combat in my D&D campaigns is a lot more rare than actual role-playing, even in dungeons.
2: Treasure and magic items are also rather rare... I've been in too many "Monty Haul" campaigns for that.
3: I like to make things more interesting than the typical D&D fare. When I talk about the "current generation" of gamers, it's the hack and slash roll-players who never talk in character that I'm talking about. There have always been these types.. but not like now... most gamers under 25-30 years old think that Diablo is an RPG. These people are the ones who'll quickly tire of TROS, but I don't plan on playing with them anyway.
So, what I'm saying is: I don't want to take TROS to the D&D type of dungeon crawl (even if my own style of D&D is more "mature"). Rather, I want to envision what the definition of "dungeon crawl" would be in the realm of TROS.
That said, do you have an idea of what you would do if you were the Senechal in a ROS campaign and you wanted to send your players on a dungeon crawl?
Regards,
Brandon
PS: I know a lot of the people here hate D&D (particularly D20 D&D), but I still feel that it's my primary game. The rules don't matter so much as people think, they are only the vehicle that allows you to play. The true fun of any game is only equal to what you put into it as players. :-)
I can see RoS dungeon crawling... But it would be the sort of thing like in a couple Conan novels I vaguely remember.. You're going to be avoiding direct confrontation, even if you are a badass with a dopplehander. They're be a lot of creeping, sneak attacks and silent kills, as the players look for whatever it is they're there for.. And there definitely won't be any "casual" dungeon crawls, unless the characters have a deathwish. Going into a dungeon of any sort of fantasy dungeon with anything other than deadly earnest is choosing your own tomb.
But then, most any type of combat is like that, now isn't it?
Just remember the gritty feeling of things, and I think you'll mostly be alright running any sort of adventure, even dungeon crawls.
Exactly what I'm getting at, Lance. The danger of any dungeon crawl (or any combat) is something I try to focus on. It just turns out that TROS facilitates that - A LOT. If a combat in D&D (or any RPG) isn't particularly dangerous, then I don't see a point in it. Why would the characters (NPC and PC alike) be fighting anyway, if it wasn't serious business?
Thats one of the (MANY) things I love about TROS. It makes it easy to focus on roleplaying, strategy and teamwork. As I was telling a friend of mine Saturday night, TROS feels like an RPG for "advanced players". HacknSlash posers need not apply. ;-)
So, to clarify what I'm asking: What would you (the reader) do if you wanted to drop your TROS players into a dungeon?
Brandon
QuoteSo, to clarify what I'm asking: What would you (the reader) do if you wanted to drop your TROS players into a dungeon?
FWIW, some thoughts:
- I think we all want to avoid the "trap around every corner, monster in every room" sense of overkill from our D&D days (I do miss Tomb of Horrors, though.<g>)
- I think it's worth thinking about why you want underground as a setting vs just plain indoors vs outside. Personally, I think it's the 3-D effect, the lack of visual information (a cavern wall is a lot less easy to read than the wall of a house), the sense of cramped quarters *everywhere* (you can't just step outside like if you were in a house), and the unbounded nature; a house/castle/whatever has dimensions: underground tunnels go on and on.
- You probably can do a lot worse than your basic Tolkien for adventure seeds. For example, an abandoned Dwarven city is your only path to the other side of the mountain. Unfortunately, a small tribe of Gols lives in one of the entrances, and will pursue if they catch you. Furthermore, the place is falling apart which can be both noisy and dangerous, and you don't have a map so you need to use your intuition.
- Hell, do the Lonely Mountain. Dwarven city, Dragon, whole nine yards. Sure, you can probably make it in and out, but if the Dragon wakes you're in deep doo-doo. Furthermore, the Dragon's smart; he smashed tunnel entrances that were too small for him, knocked open any roofs so people can't hide, and pulled treasure out into open, hard-to-reach areas so he can catch thieves. The trick for this one, to avoid high-fantasy, is to make characters part of an army of people trying to take the place back. There will be lots of deaths, but you have plenty of redshirts as the GM.
- One thought I've had is a burial chamber of (essentially) never-ending dead. They're weak, easily disposed of, but they never die. Hands grasp even when cut off, and so on. So the players are exploring the place - an entrance, a tunnel, a chamber with some artifacts (artsy stuff, not wonder-treasure), another tunnel, and then the tomb. Undead appear
slowly out of the ground (soft ground) anywhere along the length. As body parts pile up on the floor, the GM applies a terrain modifier to represent the chance that the bodies interfere with the character. If PCs try to burn the bodies, they release a noxious fume that can suffocate, and gives everyone a permanent minus underground from then on (fumes spread throughout, but don't dissapate). Rig the tomb for a trap, the middle chamber with another, and you have a whole lot for players to deal with. Have a bunch of people pursuing them (the locals are a day's ride behind), and you have a time-crunch to spice things up.
Oh well, some early-morning thoughts.
-Jeff
Quote from: RattleheadNevermet:
I realized when I posted that message that I might be interpreted as trying to bring TROS to D&D. Don't worry, I don't consider your message a flame, I agree with you more or less. Of course, my definition of a dungeon crawl is slightly different. Primarily because I play D&D differently than most of the "current generation" of gamers. Examples:
ok, good to know I wasn't an obnoxious ass :)
So, from your POV, a dungeon crawl could be, say, stealthfully trying to escape a dungeon, with how they go about it being dependent as much on roleplaying as strategy? Just making sure I understand
Quote from: Rattlehead
So, what I'm saying is: I don't want to take TROS to the D&D type of dungeon crawl (even if my own style of D&D is more "mature"). Rather, I want to envision what the definition of "dungeon crawl" would be in the realm of TROS.
aaah, gotcha.
Lessee. what would a dungeon crawl entail for TROS...
First off, we can get rid of "needs to be in a dungeon" :)
Hmm... I need to think about that a bit.
I know that there are four things I associate with a dungeon crawl which I can 'port' over.
1) exploration. (space needs to be unfamiliar)
2) A high and constant threat of violence (be it enemies, traps, or the potential existence of either)
3) A high perceived possibility of rewards. (gold, magic, fame, glory, babes)
4) constrained by time (its not a real dungeon crawl if its drawn out over a month of careful exploring and constantly going back to town for supplies)
The idea of a dungeon crawl (in both this generalized version and old AD&D modules) is that the PCs are worn down over time. Wearing TROS PCs down is a dangerous thing, as there's less to wear down before they're just down (for the count). However, I think something can still work here
Quote from: Rattlehead
PS: I know a lot of the people here hate D&D (particularly D20 D&D), but I still feel that it's my primary game. The rules don't matter so much as people think, they are only the vehicle that allows you to play. The true fun of any game is only equal to what you put into it as players. :-)
First of all, I don't hate d20 or D&D. I _DO_ hate hack 'n slash dungeon crawls, however, and thats what I was reacting to in your post. I brought up D&D because, well, its the system to bring up when you talk about dungeon crawls (just like one brings up CoC when a discussion of sanity starts). I think D&D works for a specific style of play, and while it can encourage roleplaying, most players don't know that.
And second, don't let Ron see the words "system doesn't matter" ;-)
I'm new here, but thats one thing I caught onto.
Quote from: Nevermetok, good to know I wasn't an obnoxious ass :)
So, from your POV, a dungeon crawl could be, say, stealthfully trying to escape a dungeon, with how they go about it being dependent as much on roleplaying as strategy? Just making sure I understand
That's more or less the idea. Tons of monsters and such aren't key in my campaigns, really.
Quote from: Nevermetaaah, gotcha.
Lessee. what would a dungeon crawl entail for TROS...
First off, we can get rid of "needs to be in a dungeon" :)
*snippage*
1) exploration. (space needs to be unfamiliar)
2) A high and constant threat of violence (be it enemies, traps, or the potential existence of either)
3) A high perceived possibility of rewards. (gold, magic, fame, glory, babes)
4) constrained by time (its not a real dungeon crawl if its drawn out over a month of careful exploring and constantly going back to town for supplies)
Keeping in mind that the "threat" of danger can be constant, but not the actual violence of it. As for time constraints, I usually make the dungeon location someplace remote, so going back to town isn't feasible.
Quote from: NevermetThe idea of a dungeon crawl (in both this generalized version and old AD&D modules) is that the PCs are worn down over time. Wearing TROS PCs down is a dangerous thing, as there's less to wear down before they're just down (for the count). However, I think something can still work here
Well, if the party takes supplies and are skilled in first aid, they can be worn down. You just have to make the wear as much mental as physical. You also have to be careful not to make things
too dangerous...
Quote from: NevermetFirst of all, I don't hate d20 or D&D. I _DO_ hate hack 'n slash dungeon crawls, however, and thats what I was reacting to in your post. I brought up D&D because, well, its the system to bring up when you talk about dungeon crawls (just like one brings up CoC when a discussion of sanity starts). I think D&D works for a specific style of play, and while it can encourage roleplaying, most players don't know that.
And second, don't let Ron see the words "system doesn't matter" ;-)
I'm new here, but thats one thing I caught onto.
When I say "system doesn't matter" I mean that the system has an effect on how easy or hard it is to take your gaming to the "next level", but, with work and a good group of people playing, any system can provide great gaming. But I'm used to people disagreeing with me. Everyone has their opinions! :-D
Regards,
Brandon