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Archive => RPG Theory => Topic started by: Bankuei on May 24, 2002, 01:48:25 PM

Title: Scene framing and momentum...
Post by: Bankuei on May 24, 2002, 01:48:25 PM
Ok, I'm late on this, but I'm a kid with a new toy, and I want to know how to transform it into all 6 of its cool forms....

I've read the scene framing threads, and at first, I just thought it was "Advanced scene cutting", not realizing exactly what was up.  Last week, Clinton starts our ROS campaign with,"Savaric is hiding in the confessional, and Jocelin, you don't know he's in there, and you're coming in for confession, go!"

Something inside me gets it, it clicks, and it kicks ass.

This week, there's a big tournament scene, which should be packed with tension, and it starts off really just kinda, "well, we show up..." (of course, Clinton,  that made the climax all the more shocking)

Big difference, momentum.  This also finally cleared up what bangs really are about to me.  So, here's a multipart question:

1) What provides momentum?
2) What techniques/general ideas do you use to come up with a bandolier of bangs?  Do you have a set of "scene framing" ammo that is set up before the game, or are we all improv here?
3) How do you keep that momentum running?

Anything, ideas, suggestions, anything would help out.

Thanks,

Chris
Title: Scene framing and momentum...
Post by: Christoffer Lernö on June 10, 2002, 08:00:59 PM
I really should read up on that thread before I post anything, but here goes nothing:

First, momentum seems to depend on what GNS you're playing in.

In some cases with a more Gamist kind of style it can simply be about keeping the players ready to roll their dice and pumped up about what strategic decision is the best.

For games with a lot of social interaction between the players it's about feeding them the right kind of encouragement (I played one group in Kult and at random someone decided to check under the sofa so that there wasn't anything there. I quickly lashed out my hand and grabbed the wrist of the player who said she'd look and hissed "suddenly something grabs your wrist!" There was yelling and shocked replies and they got going. Of course there was no reason for anything being under the sofa, except for that you might get away with things like that in Kult, and of course I thought it might add some fuel to the play, which had been winding down).

And so on.

Basically my understanding of it is working as if you had a fire. If it goes down, you better be ready to add some fuel to it, but if you chose the right opportunity you can build incredible momentum this way. In illusionist games the GM better be ready for the pace though.

So, when one notices people relaxing it's going to slow, add something to fuel their interest. Interest, though, depends on what GNS the player is into at the moment.

I thought the shouting matches in (what in my eyes were horrible) Rolemaster sessions of endless combat which for some was hours of tense and thrilling combat.
Title: Scene framing and momentum...
Post by: Bankuei on June 10, 2002, 09:12:00 PM
This thread's question was specifically in regards to scene framing, but I'm glad you noticed it, so my questions won't die unanswered :P

QuoteIn some cases with a more Gamist kind of style it can simply be about keeping the players ready to roll their dice and pumped up about what strategic decision is the best.

I've played games with a lot of dice rolling, but I didn't care about the results, often because the game lacked momentum, or push.  Strategic decisions only matter if you care, and not only that, but the momentum I was referring to was in regards to keeping up the pressure and escalating the tension.

Other than that, I'll just restate my question in regards to scene framing(and hope someone notices this time :P )

1) What provides momentum?
2) What techniques/general ideas do you use to come up with a bandolier of bangs? Do you have a set of "scene framing" ammo that is set up before the game, or are we all improv here?
3) How do you keep that momentum running?

Chris
Title: Scene framing and momentum...
Post by: Christoffer Lernö on June 10, 2002, 11:42:39 PM
Quote from: BankueiThis thread's question was specifically in regards to scene framing, but I'm glad you noticed it, so my questions won't die unanswered :P

I know what you feel. I'm still naively hoping for some feedback on some threads myself ;)

QuoteI've played games with a lot of dice rolling, but I didn't care about the results, often because the game lacked momentum, or push.  Strategic decisions only matter if you care, and not only that, but the momentum I was referring to was in regards to keeping up the pressure and escalating the tension.

What I mean is that momentum is a subjective thing. Some people might feel it while others sit idly by. I mean I was bored to death by the frantic die rolling in the Rolemaster sessions I referred to, but for the others tension was running high.


Now if you could provide some thread on scene framing, I could even throw in my random opinions just to be nice :)
Title: "Whosoever Answers the Five Questions...THREE Questions
Post by: Le Joueur on June 11, 2002, 12:58:48 AM
Quote from: BankueiStrategic decisions only matter if you care, and not only that, but the momentum I was referring to was in regards to keeping up the pressure and escalating the tension.

Other than that, I'll just restate my question in regards to scene framing[list=1]
  • What provides momentum?
  • What techniques/general ideas do you use to come up with a bandolier of bangs? Do you have a set of "scene framing" ammo that is set up before the game, or are we all improv here?
  • How do you keep that momentum running?[/list:o]
Two bits of advice I've always given gamemasters, "When all else fails, run an action scene¹" and "Pacing, pacing, pacing."

I hate to say it, but you seem to have answered your own questions; simply, "...if you care."  (Leaving it at that would be at best silly, at worst rude; let me elaborate.)[list=1]
Title: Scene framing and momentum...
Post by: Paul Czege on June 11, 2002, 01:22:15 AM
Hey,

...scene framing....Think about those old serials (or the live-action Batman television show, if yer a youngster). Each time they ended, there was some Question about what would happen next. I call that, "leave them hungry for more."

If it wasn't so late, I'd write a more substantial post. But since it is, this will have to do. I've always considered "scene framing" as an umbrella term that included "scene cutting." Scene framing is the delimiting of a scene, both at the beginning and at the end. And Fang has it exactly right, there's a lot of momentum to be had from paying attention to when you cut from the scene.

I learned this particular lesson about scene framing from reading George R.R. Martin's A Storm of Swords immediately prior to running The Pool last summer, and being struck by how skilled he was at creating tension and then cutting away from it at the perfect moment.

Paul
Title: Scene framing and momentum...
Post by: Ron Edwards on June 11, 2002, 10:52:04 AM
Hi there,

Beautiful post, Fang. I don't have much to add to it at this point.

Best,
Ron
Title: Scene framing and momentum...
Post by: Bankuei on June 11, 2002, 02:41:46 PM
Thanks everyone.  Paul, I'm a big George RR Martin fan myself, I remember tearing through the first two books pretty fast.  I'll have to check back on his stuff to get that drilled into my head.

Chris
Title: Re: "Whosoever Answers the Five Questions...THREE Quest
Post by: Mike Holmes on June 11, 2002, 02:57:00 PM
Quote from: Le JoueurI adapted what I read once about commercials; being too short, they don't 'finish' their stories.  A commercial starts with a bit of 'tension' and then, usually in one scene, either increases it, converts it, or (rarely) satisfies it.  This could be looked at as 'doing something with the narrative.'  Whenever anybody starts a scene, make sure it 'goes somewhere.'  If it gets 'lost,' take my advice; turn it into an action scene.¹  Once a scene has increased or converted tension, cut and run (but make sure to leave some Question about what'll happen next).

Which should heretofore be referred to as the Mentos Principle.

Mike