I ran fight with Combat Simulator (both had arming sword, small shield, full helm and plate everywhere else, strenght 7, combat pool was 13 excluding minuses from armor and shield). Some questions became in my mind because about after 20 "turns" nothing hasn't happened (only one glancing hit to knee). Do they shields break in tRoS? I almost all the time blocked hits and shields didn't broke even it took hits (a lot of them). How about swords? Do they break? How about combat fatigue? Guys hit each other with full plate mail and after 20 "turns" they still hit each other with same effect. How about "it easy to hit, but hard to not get hit"? There hadn't too many hits and most time guys blocked and parried hits quite easily which should be quite difficult in real life (specially parrying).
- Janne -
Many of these things are in the book, but not in the simulator.
Shields doesn't break, but there has been some discussion on that, and I assume it will be in tFoB. Same with swords.
Fatigue is an optional rule that says that you lose one die every EN rounds(EN*2 if yoy have light or no armor).
So after 20 turns your guys should(assuming an EN of 5) have lost 4 dice each.
Blocking is easy, as is parrying with most swords. Alot trickier with most of the mass weapons and pole-arms however.
With the equipment you described, I don't think anyone would win with the book either, unless one had alot higher EN. Otherwise they'll just get more and more tired, being less and less capable of penetrating the armor.
Arming swords just don't do a good job against plate.
Mokk is absolutely right. Arming Swords were knightly weapons from the age of mail which maintain their position as a status symbol throughout the knightly period. They aren't very effective against full plate.
But if you're talking about trying to injure someone in full plate...you'd be farther ahead with a STR+3+2 Pole Axe. One good hit and it goes through plate like butter. 2 Successes is a Level 1, 6 is a level 5 with equivelent attributes. Also has maneuvers like "Hook" which is quite nice for knocking the old boy down.
Thanks about comments. Of course it's hard to injury someone with plate mail and I just wanted to try what happens when both had plate mails and shiels. In my opinion those breaking rules should be in main book, because they're quite important things in combat. I don't know much about parrying with swords but I have tried knife and baton and I have to say it was hard to parry attacks. You don't know where the blow will hit and if someone hits fast, you have to be very fast reflexes to parry that. Blocking is of course easier, but there is no difference (in tRoS what I have understood) blocking with buckler and large shield (AV and CP penalties are different, that I know) or is there different defense TN numbers for different shields?
Some example Defense TN's:
Dagger: 7
Arming sword: 6
Quarterstaff: 6
Hand-axe: 8/10(1H or 2H)
Warflail: 16
Buckler: 7
Bigger shields: 5
Pole Axe: 7
Bigger shields also cover bigger areas(duh!). Useful against pesky arrows.
Thanks about info :). Gave me little more understanding about system. Quarterstaff has as good defensive TN value as Arming Sword... I think that with quarterstaff it is easier to parry (yes, I have tried quarterstaff too).
- Janne -
The quarterstaff in tRoS is probably different from the one you are familiar with. The staff isn't used in a "half-staffing" position, it is held on the first quarter of the the staff, much like a spear. This makes for a much longer range and LOTS of power on the thrust. It's a little harder to parry, but much easier to kill, with such a weapon.
OK, thanks about info :).
I never bothered putting the fatigue rules into the combat sim, mostly because when I duel it seldom goes long enough for fatigue to make a difference :-) Maybe I'll throw them in there as an option when I do the next version, it's pretty easy to implement really.
Brian.
Yes, please put the fatigue rules in the next version :).
Quote from: MokkurkalfeSome example Defense TN's:
Dagger: 7
Bigger shields also cover bigger areas(duh!). Useful against pesky arrows.
Actually the Rondel's Defense TN is 9 (the common sidearm for soldiers and such). The DTN you quoted is for a Poniard.
If you want to hurt somebody in plate, yet still use a shield, get a mass weapon. Axes, flails, warhammers, etc... are great for smashing the dickens out of turtles.
-Jeff
QuoteIf you want to hurt somebody in plate, yet still use a shield, get a mass weapon. Axes, flails, warhammers, etc... are great for smashing the dickens out of turtles.
And it would be quite easy to be proficient.. If you max out at 8 (say, priority B in Proficiencies)in Sword and Shield you'll have another point to raise Mass Weapon and Shield to 7 from the default of -2. So be a S&S type, but keep a nasty little morning-star at your hip in case you ever find yourself meeting up with a "turtle". Plus the bleeding addition the morning-star gives.. Vera nasty after a round or two.
Quote from: JaifIf you want to hurt somebody in plate, yet still use a shield, get a mass weapon. Axes, flails, warhammers, etc... are great for smashing the dickens out of turtles.
-Jeff
Or weapons that get bonuses versus hard armour, such as picks.
Brian.
Picks are mass weapons.
Mass weapons rock!
-Jeff
Quote from: ShadelingQuote from: MokkurkalfeSome example Defense TN's:
Dagger: 7
Bigger shields also cover bigger areas(duh!). Useful against pesky arrows.
Actually the Rondel's Defense TN is 9 (the common sidearm for soldiers and such). The DTN you quoted is for a Poniard.
This made me think of something,
In the book, on the dagger profiency I think, it says almost everyone carries a dagger. These "work-daggers", are they poinards or something else?
Quote from: ShadelingQuote from: MokkurkalfeSome example Defense TN's:
Dagger: 7
Bigger shields also cover bigger areas(duh!). Useful against pesky arrows.
Actually the Rondel's Defense TN is 9 (the common sidearm for soldiers and such). The DTN you quoted is for a Poniard.
This made me think of something,
In the book, on the dagger profiency I think, it says almost everyone carries a dagger. These "work-daggers", are they poinards or something else?
Quote from: ShadelingQuote from: MokkurkalfeSome example Defense TN's:
Dagger: 7
Bigger shields also cover bigger areas(duh!). Useful against pesky arrows.
Actually the Rondel's Defense TN is 9 (the common sidearm for soldiers and such). The DTN you quoted is for a Poniard.
This made me think of something,
In the book, on the dagger profiency I think, it says almost everyone carries a dagger. These "work-daggers", are they poinards or something else?
It depends on what country you're in.
In Ixliaph, the statement is untrue, and therefore moot.
In Odeon, the daggers would probably be more akin to rondels than poinards.
In Xanarium, the poinard is the sidearm to the rapier, 'nuf said.
In Angharad, a stilletto-type dagger would not be uncommon.
Etc., etc., etc.