Hey, just wondering here, but what books and / or movies strike you guys as having that TROS feel to it? for example, GRR Martins books (Game of thrones etc) could easily be a TROS campaign- same with how the 13th warrior could be a TROS game in film form.
Count of Monte Cristo (book/movie). Surely lots of Spiritual Attribute use (Passion, Drive, and Destiny for sure). Good fight scenes in the movie too... Sure made me want to play after seeing the movie.
I'd add to that list:
Princess Bride - so much wit, passion and drive involved.
Conan the Barbarian - for the sheer feel of adventure and carving on'es destiny.
Star Wars - in a sort of way (ok, not fantasy but all that lightsabre, force, destiny, rebellion stuff)
Lots of Akira Kurosawa films - travelling swordsman (seven samurai, yojimbo)
Ill think on this....
Take care
Some additions:
Excalibur - lots of destiny warring with passion, and realistic, gritty platemail combat. Oh, and powerful, ritualised magic.
Hmm, Lord of the Rings really - sort of obvious in a way even though some may argue it is a little cheesy (the film that is)
Again, a bit obvious and cheesy, but Gladiator I reckon has that TROS combination of messy, serious combat and powerful drives.
Just remembered this being mentioned in the book, and have looked it up.
Jake's suggestions are: 13th Warrior, Braveheart, Gladiator, Ladyhawke (oh yeah, forgotten that one ), Legend, The Dark Crystal and Seven Samurai. So not that much added in this forum after all ;)
But if we're talking fairy-taily Legend and Dark Crystal, then maybe other tackier films like Willow and Beastmaster are also valid.
Hmm, kinda of racked my brains now and out of ideas - I just keep wanting to say 'Indiana Jones' but I don't know why?
Take care
Oooh, almost forgot, Ridley Scott's 1st film was called 'The duel', I think. It's all about these two napoleonic officers who keep getting into fights every time they bump into each other.
Hmmm, that's it, definitely exhausted my memory. I like this thread. Any other suggestions?
yes have to say definatly the 13th Warrior,
all the suggestions work for me,
LAST OF THE MOHICANS!
did anyone hear anything just then?
I dont know how I missed this one but rob roy for sure and also braveheart.
Side note, what was the sword Rob Roy used to kill the fop? Basket hilted broadsword??
Quote from: Ashren Va'HaleI dont know how I missed this one but rob roy for sure and also braveheart.
Side note, what was the sword Rob Roy used to kill the fop? Basket hilted broadsword??
Yeah, that's what it was. A "basket-hilted claymore." Claymore is just gaelic for "big sword," by the way.
Jake
I'm not sure if it fits the 13th Century, but:
Messenger: The story of Joan of Arc.
"Flesh and Blood," a pretty gritty Renaissance-ish film starring Rutger Hauer.
The Three and Four Musketeers films from the '70s, starring Michael York, Oliver Reed, Christopher Lee, Charlton Heston, Richard Chamberlain, et. al.
Best,
Blake
OMG
Flesh and blood (yeah - absolutely). Had forgotten that one.
And was gonna say Joan of Arc ;)
Quote from: VanguardSome additions:
But if we're talking fairy-taily Legend and Dark Crystal, then maybe other tackier films like Willow and Beastmaster are also valid.
Hmmm, Maybe I Shouldn't Say it.... Beast master could be the most complete fit for the game... if not the world setting.
The sorcery, strong Vastly diverse, sparingly used. Strange "Unseelie" beings or were they "Seelie"?.
The beast master himself.... 4 familiars.... he only talked to his animals, not every beast he came across. All the charachters had their motivations fairly well laid out.
Wish it had been a better movie. but if you ask me which one most fits wyerth I'd say the 13th warrior.
How can you not like the Beastmaster?!?! It's a classic! :-)
Hell, I bought it on DVD. It's good to whip out now and then for some mindless fastasy action. And you're right, it's kind of tRoSish. Plus, it's got the cute blonde next-door-neighbour-mother from That 70's Show when she was young and often naked ;-)
Brian.
Well, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon isn't really a realistic action movie, but it's just so . . . . cool.
Also, does anyone know of any video games that have realistic fighting in them? So far I think Ehrgeiz is the most realistic one I've found . . .
As far as videogames go, Bushido Blade(1 hit, 1 kill) is the TROS game of choice. Anime, try the Hakkenden, for a great mix of realistic fighting and weirded out sorcery. Kurosawa's Throne of Blood(MacBeth samurai style) is also a good movie. For comics, check out Vagabond, a really great book about Musashi in his youth. For books, definitely check out the Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Heroes of the Water Margin, for chinese warriors and politics.
Chris
I'm sorry. You've all got good movies. But the single best TROS movie of all time is Warlord starring Charleton Heston.
Very historical in the Norman / Viking period.
Very much SA driven conflict.
The pacing of the movie leaves a little to be desired...at times it proceeds more like a documentary than a drama, and certainly not like an action film...but its pure gold from a TROS standpoint.
And its early Heston...what can possibly be better than early Heston?
Quote from: ValamirAnd its early Heston...what can possibly be better than early Heston?
Well if you're going to reach back, go for
Vikings, and
Spartacus. Remember that Kirk Douglas was so good at chewing scenery that The National Lampoon had to retire it's Worst Actor of the Year award after he won it five years running!
Say it with me "Combined might of Rome!"
Mike
(oh, wait this is supposed to be good movies?)
Quote from: qirienWell, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon isn't really a realistic action movie, but it's just so . . . . cool.
Also, does anyone know of any video games that have realistic fighting in them? So far I think Ehrgeiz is the most realistic one I've found . . .
Did you ever Play Thief the Dark Project? This game had the best ambush attacks. Arrow sniping, one shot one kill if you had surprise. Hightened alert status if the guards discover a body. Servants that run away yelling to alert the guards.Eves dropping to hear the guards talk about going to the bearpit was GREAT.
As for beastmaster I did love it. ok not as much as LADYHAWKE .... hmmm... How Do you cast those Curses on charachters... lol Now i need to design those spells. seems to me i remember some sort of transformation. ....
Quote from: qirienWell, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon isn't really a realistic action movie, but it's just so . . . . cool.
Also, does anyone know of any video games that have realistic fighting in them? So far I think Ehrgeiz is the most realistic one I've found . . .
I know this awesome little free program called the Riddle of Steel Combat Simulator by some Brian Leyborne. Text based, but fun anyway.
The Thief games are good, yeah(and scary). The first tRoS game I GMed was with a literal copy of Garrett, the main character in Thief. It worked quite well.
Le Pact de Loupes?
(aka. The Brotherhood of the Wolf)
Very nice fighting scenes, quite ok movie also.
It even includes secret societies, mythical beasts etc.
Oh yeah, Thief! Those games were awesome. There's supposed to be a Thief III coming out sometime . . . I did like the sniping, silent aspect of combat in the games - they were especially realistic if you played on Expert mode! I supposed Deus Ex has pretty realistic combat, too, although in a futuristic setting, and assuming that you have syborg implants which make you less susceptible to damage . . .
That makes me want to play Thief again.
[quote="Mokkurkalfe] I know this awesome little free program called the Riddle of Steel Combat Simulator by some Brian Leyborne. Text based, but fun anyway.[/quote]
Aw jeez.. you're just greasing now...
Keep it up! :-)
By the way, no promises as to "when", but I'm a good chunk of the way through a TROS character generator.
Brian.
Quote from: BrianL[quote="Mokkurkalfe] I know this awesome little free program called the Riddle of Steel Combat Simulator by some Brian Leyborne. Text based, but fun anyway.
Aw jeez.. you're just greasing now...
Keep it up! :-)
By the way, no promises as to "when", but I'm a good chunk of the way through a TROS character generator.
Brian.[/quote]
Woohooo!!!!
After that, the only thing that's missing is a campaign manager.
As I said before, the only thing I really like about D&D are all the nifty programs available.
Quote from: MokkurkalfeAfter that, the only thing that's missing is a campaign manager.
Jeez, one at a time, mate! :-)
In fact, I still want to go back to the combat sim and add an AI, I'm actually part of the way through that (in that the AI can choose initiative and stance) but I'm having trouble building the algorithm for deciding attacks and defenses and number of dice etc given the variable weapons and CP's, so for now it's way way on the back burner.
Brian.
Quote from: qirienOh yeah, Thief! Those games were awesome. There's supposed to be a Thief III coming out sometime . . . I did like the sniping, silent aspect of combat in the games - they were especially realistic if you played on Expert mode! I supposed Deus Ex has pretty realistic combat, too, although in a futuristic setting, and assuming that you have syborg implants which make you less susceptible to damage . . .
That makes me want to play Thief again.
Looking Glass Studios closed its doors some time ago... but they were hoping to get enough of the developers back together to finish off their trilogy. That, unfortunately, is the last I heard regarding the Thief3 project.
Yeah, I know Looking Glass Studios closed down. However, Eidos bought rights to make Thief 3 two years ago. (see the press release
here). Also,
Thief3.com has a nice teaser pic. :-)
Hopefully it will come out soon, and be good.
Good news on thief 3.
Ok I don't remember anyone mentioning a movie.... to me it has a very TROS feel to it with a few Exceptions... though they are biggies
If the Sidhe had slightly more limited spell casting... and iff they could rapidly regenerate wounds as long as thier hearts and brains were
connected....
the
movie
is
Highlander.
The original Highlander has the shock values take effect from the wounds. Also has the CP loss from non wounding combat. Only 2 charachters survive fairly serious wounding. The Kurgen, and McCleod. In Connor's case all the wounds incapacitated him, and he was saved by his oponent leaving (in the rapier duel) or intervention of allies (the Clan battle scene). It was also much more about the charachters motivations than just swordfighting. Why did Conner win? IMO it was the girls. It was Drive Vengence (the death of Rameriz + the recently discovered rape of his GF), Passion to protect the women he loves (his new GF was at the scene of the battle), even though he wanted her he was very hesitent to let her love him because of a conflict with his conscience (how much it hurt his wife to grow old in front of him while he stayed young).
Any way all these things were in effect for him in the final battle. and enough to compensate for Kurgen's Drive (win the Prize which was much stronger than Conners')
Anyway.... it's gritty enough I think. Just a strange thought that occured to me as i listened to the soundtrack.
Highlander was a great film. What a pity there wasn't only one.
(I even hear they're talking Highlander FIVE now.. as if they shouldn't have learned their lessons from 2,3,2,4 and of course 2).
Good point though, quite TROSsy. You forgot Connor's other SA - Destiny to win the prize :-)
Brian.
Quote from: BrianLIn fact, I still want to go back to the combat sim and add an AI, I'm actually part of the way through that (in that the AI can choose initiative and stance) but I'm having trouble building the algorithm for deciding attacks and defenses and number of dice etc given the variable weapons and CP's, so for now it's way way on the back burner.
Speaking of the combat simulator, the link on the website apparently needs a-fixing. I just wanted to download it at home, so that I don't have to illegally toy with it at work, but it won't budge.
Quote from: IrmoQuote from: BrianLIn fact, I still want to go back to the combat sim and add an AI, I'm actually part of the way through that (in that the AI can choose initiative and stance) but I'm having trouble building the algorithm for deciding attacks and defenses and number of dice etc given the variable weapons and CP's, so for now it's way way on the back burner.
Speaking of the combat simulator, the link on the website apparently needs a-fixing. I just wanted to download it at home, so that I don't have to illegally toy with it at work, but it won't budge.
Yeah, the server is fighting any upload of *.exe's right now. I'll be all over it later this week.
Jake
It's possibly been lost in the recent website reshuffle. Jake?
Brian.
Quote from: BrianLHighlander was a great film. What a pity there wasn't only one.
(I even hear they're talking Highlander FIVE now.. as if they shouldn't have learned their lessons from 2,3,2,4 and of course 2).
Good point though, quite TROSsy. You forgot Connor's other SA - Destiny to win the prize :-)
Brian.
Actually in my right up his destiny was to lose everyone that loved him.
I woulnd't allow destiny - to win the prize in a highlander campaign.
Quote from: qirienYeah, I know Looking Glass Studios closed down. However, Eidos bought rights to make Thief 3 two years ago. (see the press release here). Also, Thief3.com has a nice teaser pic. :-)
Hopefully it will come out soon, and be good.
Thanks for the update, Qirien! I'm glad to know that it's not dead.
Speaking of defunct links, the link to "Real-time combat...." doesn't work either, and that just as someone asked me on another board how combat in TROS looks like....
Quote from: VanguardI'd add to that list:
Princess Bride - so much wit, passion and drive involved.
Take care
*g* After Jake commented on some questions I had on SA allocation for a character concept "I would be horribly frightened of a guy with that many SA's pointing in my direction...." I just had that scene in my mind.... "Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father: Prepare to die!" SAs at work, if ever there were any ;)
Quote from: VanguardSome additions:
Oooh, almost forgot, Ridley Scott's 1st film was called 'The duel', I think. It's all about these two napoleonic officers who keep getting into fights every time they bump into each other.
'The Duellists' starring Harvey Keitel (antagonist) and Keith Carradine (protagonist). Heartily recommended. The sabre duel that they fight in the stable-block is very dramatic - the whole thing starts off very high-energy and evenly matched and progressively degenerates into a blood and mud-spattered brawl with both men gasping for breath and flailing weakly at the other with no science at all.
Luke
Pretty much any Samurai films by Kurosawa; Jake mentioned SEVEN SAMURAI, but YOJIMBO and SANJURO are also excellent; RAN and KAGEMUSHA focus less on combat and more on character and politics, but should provide great inspiration for "epic" campaigns. There's also the brilliant SAMURAI trilogy, starring Toshiro Mifune as Miyamoto Musashi, and if you can find it, SWORD OF DOOM, about a samurai's devotion to his sword leading him to madness.
For duelling, check out SCARAMOUCHE w/ Farley Granger: the final 8 minute duel is done in a single cut that take you from a theater balcony, through a hallway, down the stairs, to climax up on the stage; also, the b/w CYRANO w/ Jose Ferrer, for the duel where he composes a requiem for the popinjay that he's in the process of skewering.
Lots of the old swashbuckling films hold up, but a real surprise is ROB ROY. I found the film too damn slow, but the final duel between Liam Neeson (broadsword) and Tim Roth (epee) is brilliantly choreographed and brutal.
Quote from: spunkyPretty much any Samurai films by Kurosawa; Jake mentioned SEVEN SAMURAI, but YOJIMBO and SANJURO are also excellent;
Good grief! I *love* Yojimbo. It's one of my favorites ever. Shame on my for not mentioning it. And the final duel in Sanjuro...art!
Jake
How about George R. R. Martin's The Song of Ice and Fire?
Quote from: ThalaxisHow about George R. R. Martin's The Song of Ice and Fire?
That one comes up here pretty often (gee, Jake, maybe you should read it...).
It's a bit of a genre break, but you all seen Mel Gibson's
Payback? There's something there, too.
While it's not a book or a movie, what about 'Samurai Jack'? That cartoon's filled with epic battles that all seem to be driven by qualities such as "Kill Aku", "Destroy evil" and "Protect the innocent". There's also examples of tactical fighting and the intense, reflective pauses before starting combat.
QuoteIt's a bit of a genre break, but you all seen Mel Gibson's Payback? There's something there, too.
If we're going to go genre-busting, I'll throw in 'Starship Troopers'. Notice how they got better at fighting towards the climax? Not just because of experience, the stakes were also more personal.
BTW, in 'Payback', do you reckon it was Mel's Destiny or his Passion "to get my 70 grand"?
(Next week, we play "Spot the Rhetorical Question in this Post")
It occurs to me that The Sword of Truth might fit here, too.
The author needs some lessons in pacing and setting, but the first book in the series had something to recommend it. :)
And then there's His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman, and I expect that The Chronicles of Prydain have already been mentioned also.
Has it already been mentioned?
I was thinking Brotherhood of the Wolf. Best seen in original french. A bit cheesy, but the fights are cool, realistic (kinda) and very much driven by emotion.
The hunted, with Christopher Lamber. Ignore lambert, and it's a thoughtful ninjas VS samurai action film.
Oh, and who can forget the classic Karate Kid. Possibly the best, most accurate protrayal of martial arts in any film or book, ever. Wax on, good buddy, wax on!
I love samurai Jack. He's so cool.
ps. Jake, u aint read Song of Ice and Fire, by G. R. R Martin? It's not exactly TROS, but read the entire prologue and decide for urself. That should tell whether ul enjoy his style. Very gritty.
Take care
Quote from: VanguardOh, and who can forget the classic Karate Kid. Possibly the best, most accurate protrayal of martial arts in any film or book, ever. Wax on, good buddy, wax on!
Was that sarcasm?
yup
Good -- I was beginning to wonder about your standards there ;)
Outside from those already mentioned..I would also add
Berserk- both manga and anime- realistic, bloody and savage combat...with dark and deeply psychological story. Amazong stuff
Ruroni Kenshin OAV- only OAV..because it`s the only one that features realistic combat(without any "super special attacks")..and has the deepest and overall best story
Karl.E.Wagner`s Kane saga- it`s perfect for TROS :)
Elric saga- classic dark fantasy..to be honest I`ve been GMing a Stormbringer for many years..but half a year ago I`ve switched the machanics to TROS..and since it`s multiverse my gamers often visit worlds like Hyborea and Weyrth
Glen Cook`s "Black company"- great dark fantasy about war
Blade of Immortal- brutal and realistic..I love when the main character gets chooped into piecies :)
QuoteBerserk- both manga and anime- realistic, bloody and savage combat...with dark and deeply psychological story. Amazong stuff
Eh.. I didn't really dig Berserk. It just seemed like such standard anime fare after having been exposed to Cowboy Bebop and Hellsing. Also, what is the Japanese's fascination with ungodly big swords?
Quote
Eh.. I didn't really dig Berserk. It just seemed like such standard anime fare after having been exposed to Cowboy Bebop and Hellsing. Also, what is the Japanese's fascination with ungodly big swords?
Have you seen it to the end? Because I`ve often seen people disliking this series after watching only few episodes and then changing their opinion after seeing the whole series. Berserk story is much more complex and deeper psychologicaly than that of C.bebop(which strenght is based mainly on it`s style). Even though the anime is a lot worse and awfully censored compared to manga(which has scenes like..Gutt`s mentor selling him for few coins to perverted pedeophile...this example should show you how much darker it is compared to anime)..it`s still the best fantasy movie/series I`ve seen(yes...IMO it`s better thn LOTR movies). ANd that big sword..well...what can I say :) If you would see what Gutts is fighting with in manga you would understand..normal sword wouldn`t even stratch those demons :)
Let's steer this a little more back towards the topic, eh?
Jake
The Wheel of Time would fit nicely, especially with TROS sorcery rules. Change the vagaries into Fire, Water, Wind, Earth and Spirit, and let the Sorcery pool represent the channelers raw strength, and your'e more or less ready to go.
SA's fit in nicely, as they do in almost any fantasy, blademasters would have kickass combat pools etc.
TROS would be a much better system for the setting than D20 anyway.
just for the last fight scene, Soldier. When the badie looks at the kids and todd shakes his head was beastly.
Quote from: MokkurkalfeThe Wheel of Time would fit nicely, especially with TROS sorcery rules. Change the vagaries into Fire, Water, Wind, Earth and Spirit, and let the Sorcery pool represent the channelers raw strength, and your'e more or less ready to go.
SA's fit in nicely, as they do in almost any fantasy, blademasters would have kickass combat pools etc.
TROS would be a much better system for the setting than D20 anyway.
Well, the derived Sorcery Attributes aren't necessarily valid, and different channelers seem to have different basic and maximum strengths not only in the Power but also in the individual Elements.
Also, men are much stronger than women, but can't link without the help of one, while a Full Circle of (13) women is more powerful than any man.
Plus various other differences, Bob...
But I agree, actually. The magic system would need some tweaking, but the sheer brutality of combat (though it's abstracted with the named forms, rather than simply describing what happens) is right in line with TRoS. The main characters seem to be firing on all SAs every time there's combat, especially before they gain in skill, but other than that, I can see it as a viable roleplaying setting.
I just started reading a novel that would be great for TROS! Some of the magic is not very TROS but a lot of the combat, worlds, and some magic is.
It is the Run Blde Trilogy written by Ann Marston.
I found it at a discount store. The first book is entitled
Kingmaker's Sword
:)
Amy
Hi there, first post on my part.
If you're looking for a book where magic works like TRoS, try Master of the Five Magics by Lyndon Hardy. Uhh..1980 or thereabouts.
In that book, Sorcery is the magic of seeing, illusion, and mind-control. And a Sorcerer is born with a certain amount of life force which is used in proportion to the power of a spell and in inverse proportion to how well the spell is cast. I think Sorcery is the third or fourth magic the protagonist "masters", so you won't get to it right off the bat.
A fun read, but no Song of Ice and Fire.
Best movie ever on period (1500-1600ish)
Seven Samurai
The fights were awesome. Not in their glory of the technique, but in the sheer grit of the fights. The fights were mob scenes, ambushes, gang-ups, your average desperate conflicts. The peasants armed with sharpened bamboo spears and various other pole-arms did terrible things. Only once was there a formal duel, and it was considered ludicrious. And the Samurai who managed to die perished from muskets, symbolizing the destruction of the old ways in the face of the new.
All of this could have been done in Europe of the same time. Take out the Katana and Samurai and give them Longswords and make them Knight-Errants and you have the same movie!
I like the movie "The Last Valley" about a mercenary company from the 30 years war looking for a place to winter. I haven't seen it in years, but it had Machael Caine and Omar Sharif, and became one of my instant favorites (I'll probably order it on DVD soon, if it's available). Interesting historical based fiction movie without the usual super-combat heroics of the protagonists. Good, gritty movie with a "feel" similar to what I picture when I think of TROS.
tauman
Although I don't think there is an ounce of combat in it a Lion in Winter is one of the best medeival movies that I've ever seen.
Amazing.
SA's in ACTION.
Quote from: Eamon VossBest movie ever on period (1500-1600ish)
Seven Samurai!
Hell, any Kurosawa. Yojimbo is so cool that people can't stop remaking it in other genres (Fist Full of Dollars, Last Man Standing).
How big a CP do you think the main character has? :-)
Mike
Yeah...I'm a Kurosawa addict. What's funny is that other than the 7 Samurai it wasn't until *after* TROS that I got into Kurosawa...but damn...some of the best movies I've ever seen.
Jake
How about 13th Warrior? The fight scenes in that are pretty cool too. Mass combat and confused night fighting.
Quote from: Jake NorwoodYeah...I'm a Kurosawa addict. What's funny is that other than the 7 Samurai it wasn't until *after* TROS that I got into Kurosawa...but damn...some of the best movies I've ever seen.
Jake
If you haven't seen it,
Rashomon is awesome. Great use of different perspectives on the same event. Kurosawa was a master.
Chris
I don't know if it's been mentioned, but The Broken Sword by Poul Anderson is quite good, with a lot of what i imagined the Fey to be like, with Glamour use abounding.
Surely Willow. Everyone shares Destiny in that one!
how about Fafhrd and Grey Mouser? Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar stuff is good too.
Quote from: deltadavehow about Fafhrd and Grey Mouser? Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar stuff is good too.
My all-time favorite low-fantasy, and basically a model for how I'd want my campaign to feel.
tauman