I have recently completed my second RPG: Epoch Fantasy RPG, and am in the stages of playtesting. My goal with this rpg was to create a simple game that is easy to learn, yet have great flexibility in character creation. I guess you can say it's a game designed towards the novice or beginner player to the genre. No underwater basket-weaving skill check with this game.
If you're interested in giving the rules a good look thru, or even better, getting your local group together to playtest them, I would really love the feedback. I currently have the beta rules on my website; just click on the Epoch button and it will get you there. I apologize for the rough look of the site, but i just got it back onlline and I wanted to get the info there first, then I'll work on the asthetics. The rules are in PDF format and approximately 900k large.
Again, feedback is greatly apprceciated.
Thanks
www.optw.tripod.com
Hey dude,
Your link isn't working for me. Are you sure it's right?
Paul
correction to url. The correct one is
http://optw.tripod.com
sorry for the inconvienience
Now that was quick :)
Just a quick question:
Why did you name it Epoch?
Did you mean Epoch as in "A fixed point of time, established in history by the occurrence of some grand or remarkable event; a point of time marked by an event of great subsequent influence."
Or "Heroic and impressive in quality."
The second is epic not epoch.
Just curious,
Fang Langford
I stayed away form Epic because it seems everyone and their grandma's dog has an rpg named Epic. I used Epoch because of 2 reasons. 1: it does refer to the point in time of legend and knights, and 2: it's kind of a play on words with the other Epic.
Quote from: sacrosanct1: it does refer to the point in time of legend and knights
It does? By what definition?
Mike
I believe you misparsed his sentence. I suspect he meant
"It does refer to a point in time. In this case the point in time of legend and knights"
You're probably right, Ralph.
Sacrosanct, are you interested in discussing the game at all without a playtest? We could start a thread in Indie Game Design.
Mike
Sure, I wouldn't mind open discussion. I didn't want to flood the boards with muliple post though. Epoch is actually the second game I've done; Aftermath, New Explorations being the first (and by far the most in depth and advanced). I could really start a thread about both games, under the title OPTW gaming discussion. Neither game has been officially published as of yet (my ultimate goal is to see one of my games in a store; profit is a distant second). My main goal with Epoch is to create a simple gaming system that is easy to learn, but fun to play as well. I hope that the artwork will be a strong alluring point for both games. I do have several pictures on the site, if anyone has any comment on those.
Sure, I'll comment on the art:
One, there is no note as to whether this is your art, or someone else's. If it is yours, you should note that immediately. If it isn't, you should note the artist's name and get their permission immediately (if you dont' have it already).
Second, I've always found the vast majority of computer-generated art to look like...computer-generated art.
I'm not sure if you quite realize what I mean, so to explain: unless there's actual artistic touch-up or existing integrity to the pieces, they (for the most part) are boring.
It seems a great deal of the force behind CG art is that its creators believe it to be good because it "looks realistic" (ie: via textures, tones, shadowing, etc)...often completely missing the point of what makes an image impressive instead of mediocre or uninteresting.
There are a few CG-only artists whose work impresses me on the level of artists who work in other mediums, but very few. I should also mention that I'm not stating "CG-art isn't art!" or "art has to be hand-drawn!" or any such fallacy...I use the computer nearly exclusively to produce my own work, as well as for pose prep (cheaper than hiring models!).
All that said, the art on your site was mixed. Mostly it was not "bad" but "unimpressive."
Out of the images in the Gallery on the site, I would say the Earth Elemental and the Fire Dragon are by far and away the best pieces, as they are dynamic, interesting and aesthetic. I really liked these two pieces...both elicited a response of "cool!" from me.
The Scavenger character comes in as a close second to this, unfortunately, he looks more like he's *ahem* taking a crap than being surprised/alert/searching/whatever. A slight alteration of the pose of the figure, to make his stance more dynamic, would do wonders for it and earn it ranking with the prior two mentioned.
The modern weapon images also look good, and are of quality. I usually dismiss single item images as something other than "art," they seem more to be illustration, but if used in an equipment chapter they would serve their purpose well, IMO.
Now, as you were asking for feedback on it, I'll assume you're looking for comments as to what folks think of an RPG using CG'd art in it?
Well...if its GOOD, yes. If it's mediocre or poor...hell-no; not even if its "almost good."
I'd go so far as to say that CG art has to be bloody frigging impressive for me to not think it's totally inappropriate for a FRPG. My personal opinion.
thank you all for the comments. I do sketch art too, which I may put in the site. (I'll upload the behemoth and zombie tonight) I have to admit that one of the main reasons I used CG art is because it's easy and fast and cheap. I needed to get my rules out relatively fast, and any of us that's even looked into contracting out to an artist will find it very expensive.
That being said, I have found that the largest demographic of people who prefer traditional art in rpgs are us old timers. (people that have spent several years playing and are older than 25 years old). The younger generation, as I have found out, are by far much more familar with CG art and are much more willing to accept it, as CG are is in pretty much every video game and most movies that they remember. Most of these players under 25 don't remember saying 'cool' to the special effects in 'Clash of the Titans'. I'm not trying to stereotype players by age, but this is the general feedback I've gotten from several surveys I've done.
But I do agree that standard art is more impressive because it's more personal and unique.
To get back to the actual contents of the game, it seemed to be a slimmed down version of AD&D although meatier than old Red Book Basic D&D.
I'm afraid the font used for the PDF was terribly bad for reading on the computer so I didn't get in depth. But from what I could see there was nothing in there but D&D really.
Please let me know if this assessment is wrong.
To say that Epoch is the same as D&D is like saying every fantasy rpg is the same as D&D. The combat, magic, and skill system are nothing like D&D (which makes up a HUGE part of the game), not to mention that there aren't any of your typical 'classes' that are found in most rpgs. Epoch uses a guild system. Each character, when created, does not have a class or profession. Instead, you create your character based upon what skills you purchase. Anyone can purchase any skill, as long as there is a teacher willing to teach it. There are several guilds in which a character can join later in the game when they meet the minimum requirements to join that particular guild. I suppose that you could call a guild a profession, but no one is ever forced to join a guild. I've found that this system eliminates one part of role-playing that I've always been annoyed at. I'm sure we've all been in a situation where you create your character, anxious to play, and after a few hours of playing, you wish you had played another character class. Epoch gets around this. If you start by purchasing primarily combat skills, but later want to become a spell caster, you easily can, for example.
Epoch is also slimmed down on purpose. My first game, AFTERMATH, is very long and detailed; that's the game for an advanced player who likes lots of rules. I did Epoch as a basic game that you can pick up and play with little time spent on character generation and skill checks every five minutes. The demographic group I'm targeting with Epoch is 1) the novice or beginner player or 2) the group that wants to take a break from their normal campaign and play something a little less taxing on the mathmatical part of the brain.
I've designed the rules to be as basic as possible (there are only 15 creatures in the original rules), but I am in the process of creating several adventure PAKs. Think of them as the D&D version of the modules from way back when, with slight differences. Each adventure PAK will include a detailed linear adventure, 5 additional creatures, 2 additional spells, and 2 additional arcane items. I guess they are more like an expansion pack.
In regards to familiarity with CG art making a difference in acceptance, I don't agree. It isn't just "familiarity" I am speaking of, but quality. Most CG art simply lacks quality and aesthetic design.
I'm a big-time gamer (ie: computer and video) and I still don't like the typical CG art I'm criticizing above. Poor CG in a video game or movie is as bothersome to me as poor art in a product, period. My point above was simply that, to me, it appears that poor CG art is more common than poor "standard" (that is, traditional media) art, because the artist uses the technology to replace an understanding of imagery and dynamic, bypassing the struggle to learn why those are of such importance.
As you said, it is "easy, fast and cheap": I guess all I can say is that, with the vast majority of CG artists, this description shows. One would be equally at fault for using stick-figures for illustration, because they, too, are easy, fast and cheap.
FYI, artists willing to work for free, or on the cheap, are quite common. Check out "Elfwood" and similar artist depository sites for such -- there are any number of skilled, but unpublished artists, who will be more than willing to illustrate for you for in return for exposure and a complimentary copy of the product in which their work is featured.
Quote from: sacrosanctTo say that Epoch is the same as D&D is like saying every fantasy rpg is the same as D&D.
Err, no.
Even BRP is more different from D&D than your game is. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it seems like you kept a lot of Bad (tm) legacy from D&D such as "killpoints" as the way to increase levels. A first place to look would be Palladiums XP system to figure out how to properly reward players even within a level system.
The thing I like THE MOST is the game being slimmed down. That's not a complaint. I don't like reading too big systems.
Let's go on: statmodifiers are
screaming AD&D in style. The guilds seems like tweaked classes inspired from MUDs.
Most of the skills are taken directly from AD&D. It's easy to see if you've played a bit of AD&D. Granted you have added skills as well.
You have hitpoints and weapon damage is copied straight out of AD&D. Treasures are also sounding very much like AD&D treasures.
...are you sure you want me to go on?
That said, I'd even say that Rolemaster is pretty much a D&D version if that makes you feel better.
Quoteone is ever forced to join a guild. I've found that this system eliminates one part of role-playing that I've always been annoyed at. I'm sure we've all been in a situation where you create your character, anxious to play, and after a few hours of playing, you wish you had played another character class.
Only possibly in the few games that actually use character classes. Which aren't the majority of games I'm playing. In fact it sounds like primarily an AD&D problem.
Thus, your game come out sounding like a mod on AD&D. Sure it might have house rules added but still fundamentally AD&D. That's ok, I just wanted to know if that was the case and... oh and I guess I should suggest you read the fantasy heartbreakers (http://www.indie-rpgs.com/article.php?num=10) eassay.
HOWEVER. This doesn't mean your game is worthless. You might still be able to do something with it, it's just that at this point in time it needs more work if it's not supposed to come out as AD&D.
The Indie Game Design forum is a good place to get suggestions on improvements.
Edit: Something important... I do would like to try to read more in-depth to help out but you have to change the font for the standard text. It's a really cool font for titles, but that ragged, thin wide-spaced font was never ever meant to be in masses of text. Could you please just change that element and upload a new version? It's hard on my poor eyes.
ok, ok, I can see some points there. (pulls foot out of mouth). I think the trap I've laid for myself was that in order to keep it simple, I tried to keep it familar on a subconcious level. However, I think D&D gets too much credit just for being the first major rpg out there. Yes, my weapons seem to be right out of D&D, but you can't get around that. They were actual weapons used in combat long before Gary Gygax was a twinkle in his ancestors eye. As far as the creatures go, I've done quite a bit of research and found that just about every creature in any D&D book has some some of history with a local country's legend taken from somewhere. The unfortunate situation that I'm finding myself in is that "oh, he has a manticore in his book. That's a D&D monster.", when in actuality, the manticore has been in European legend for over a hundred years.
Experince is similar to D&D, but much simpler. It's actually more similar to CRPGs then to tabletop. For every level that the creature was, gain 1 xp. No other charts but that. Same with the hit points and skill advancement. Unlike D&D, you don't get better with your weapon just by gaining levels. You have to OPTION of getting better, but you always can save your points or spend them on something else.
I will upload an easier version to read when I redesign my web site (almost done). Point taken at that. The ability charts are also similar, but they are similar to most (not all) rpgs out there as well. The treasure chart is about the most similar part to D&D in the game. I really wish I could get around that (as I did in AFTERMATH), but I wanted to have pre-made arcane items so the novice player wouldn't have to think about that. I may just take the whole section out. I'll leave treasure strictly with the Adventure PAKs and keep it out of the rules. (except enchanting items, which I'll probably keep)
P.S: Rifts may have one of the best storyline and back fill for any rpg, but the system sucks :-) (one MDC 3' long mole can take out a whole planet of SDC creatures? cha' right)