Hello,
OK! I am now reserving the Adept Press booth for GenCon. At least two other companies have agreed to share this booth on an equal basis, paying for the base cost.
This post is for everyone else. Here's what I'm offering.
#1: You pay me $55, and you get a full Exhibitor pass. (This is what an Exhibitor pass costs; I make no money on this.) If you do this, you are expected to put in a significant amount of time actually playing games at the booth and being nice to people, explaining what the Forge is about, and otherwise promoting everyone there. You may also distribute, play, and promote a free game, if you have one.
#2: If you also pay me (us) $100, you can sell, play, and promote a game you have self-published. This is what Ralph, Mike, Jake, Matt, Matt, and several other people did last year.
#2 is a subset of #3; you cannot pay GenCon $55 and then pay us $100 to have your game sold at the booth.
Everyone at the booth, whether someone who helped pay for the base cost, a badge-only person, or a badge-plus-game person, is expected to promote and help out with every game at the booth. That means directing people who might be interested toward them and being willing to sit in on a demo if an extra person is needed.
For people who joined the Forge since last August, the whole point of the Forge booth is something new for GenCon - actual play at the booth, in demos that are ideally a half hour or less. Pre-prepped characters are a must. The point of this play is to generate sales and also to promote the idea that role-playing is fun, accessible, and social. The whole booth area should have a "feel" that differs from GenCon as a whole - it should feel welcoming, intellectual, and actively engaged in the hobby itself.
The space is a three-booth "end cap," and there will be no partitions - it's a flat, open area. Lots of small tables will be set up, with chairs, seating three (or squeezed, four) people each.
There's a lot more to talk about, but this is the startup. It's happening, again, people - let's go.
Best,
Ron
Oh yeah.
I'm also reserving two hotel rooms, and will be happy to host Forge people there on a first-come, first-served basis. Two people have already spoken up. I'm looking for at least four, hopefully six to eight people per room (they're pricey). This also is a subset of the $100 thing.
Some things that will be different from last year include:
- a formal cash box for all the games (not Adept, not the other "main" ones)
- a hell of a Forge banner
- an explicit policy about promotion & sales for demo people
- plenty of food runs and other support activities
- quite likely a formal Forge Party of some kind or another
I'd prefer not to turn this thread into a bitch-session, but if anyone has any concerns or suggestions about the booth-plan this year, based on last year's experiences, please let me know.
Best,
Ron
Just a couple questions. I may be nit picking here, but I'm kind of confused on the size of the booth. It's my understanding that end caps consist of two 10' booths, so wouldn't our both be a four booth endcap? or will it be "L" shaped?
Also, what will the explicit policy about promotion and sales be?
Everything else sounds great. I like the idea of a Forge party and I think having a banner will give us a little more credibility.
,Matt G.
Hi Matt,
No nitpicking there; those are good questions.
The endcap space is ... damn, have to look at the folder. It comes to less than four booth spaces and more than two. I really shouldn't be answering this without the folder in front of me. Anyway, since we won't be using the partition between the two sides, it's actually a fair hunk of floor space, more usable than last year's squeezed-linear space. People will be able to walk among the tables.
The explicit policy is going to be a topic for a new thread. I have some ideas, but I'd like the Body Politic to debate them before I decide on the final format. Basically, it goes like this: pull your weight for the group. Every person is there to pump his or her own game, granted, but also make sure to direct people to other publishers/games. I'll lay it out in a thread of its own pretty soon, once the actual folks in question get partly established.
There's a social element there too. Some of us are great "greeters," we can draw people from the aisle into the Forge space and get them curious. Others are very good "minglers," they can get people involved in a conversation about themselves and their game preferences. Others are great "sellers," they can move and close sales almost without fail. Still others are at their best at the tables of play. We need to learn who is best at what and set up a farming-system to keep some "flow" going, so that the tables are full, people are chatting excitedly, and money is going cha-ching the whole time.
You, Matt, are a freakin' great demo-er and closer. If we farm people to you, Kayfabe gets played and gets moved. Hence, we work toward your strengths and get you set up to do these things, but set people like (say) Jared, who's an engaging sort who makes people comfortable and forthcoming in his presence, more at the crowd-interface area.
Best,
Ron
One thing that I would really like to see this year is an official list of what is definetly for sale. Seeing it well in advance (like May or June) would be useful too. One of thing I noticed last year was that people were not familiar with all the games that were for sale. I think it created a confusing atmosphere at times when we had to hunt down a game designer while the potential buyer was forced to stand around. If I knew more about TRS I could have talked it up a bit while looking for Jake thereby holding the customers interest.
Maybe I was just lazy last year , but I think it would really help me prep if I had a list in front of me and I could tell myself "Ok, THESE are the games I need to help sell." I think I would be more motivated to learn how to play them ahead of time that way.
,Matt G.
Hi Matt,
Way ahead of ya. I agree, and that's something that needs to be compiled, summarized, and made public here. In fact, I did have a "games for sale here" sheet at the booth last year, but no one seemed to use it. Perhaps you can think up some medium or flyer or something that would work better.
Plus, I'm going to require a good deal more chatting among the various designers - for instance, no one at the booth should be unaware that Kayfabe is there and that you are Matt, and people need to be directed to you if they perk up upon hearing the word "wrestling."
I still do not think that everyone needs to know how to play every game at the booth, nor do they need to sell it in full. Just being able to identify others' interests and to farm them to the right person is enough.
This brings up another point that I forgot to mention - the importance of developing "chat" skill with convention goers. It's a big deal: people go to these conventions to be validated in their hobby. I think there are healthy and unhealthy versions of this, but that's not the point. The point is that if person X, for instance, determines that this GenCon-attendee he's talking to is a good Sorcerer customer-candidate, and if I happen to be demo-ing or talking a blue streak with a bunch of people already, then person X should keep the person busy, or farm them to a friendly Forge person who will engage them, perhaps someone who knows stuff about Sorcerer.
It's kind of a triage thing - phase 1, the person shows up at the booth and may or may not have a game in mind to check out; phase 2, the person is farmed to a friendly face who can either clarify stuff about that game or help determine what he or she might be interested in; phase 3, the person's talking to the main guy or a direct assistant who can sell them that game. We should all be doing this for one another, and it can work very well, with the proviso that some people's skills are better in different phases, and we all know who prefers what.
Best,
Ron
Kind of a weird idea (from me? naaaah...) but what about a catalog of games? Just a double-sided or multi-page handout that lists the games, descriptions, prices and website information...
- J
First off, I rather like Jared's idea -- a flyer or small booklet as promo for Indie games. Consider this me volunteering to put it together / design it. I can likely help pay for printing, but maybe we can get folks to chip in a couple bucks, even get it glossy-ized.
Second, a question for Ron. What will be the policy for NOT being at GenCon and having one's games still sold/played? I believe there was some way to handle this last year, correct? I am extremely, extremely bummed to say I can't make it this year. But, I'd still like Dust Devils and ... other stuff ... to be available at the booth. I'm sure other folks may be in the same boat.
Hi there,
Matt & Jared, that kind of a pamphlet or flyer is exactly what I'm talking about. Someone volunteer - thanks.
As for people who won't be there, but still get their games sold at the booth ... the thing to do is to have someone there specifically committed to your sales - a rep. Then it's handled just as before, with the $100 to the booth and the $55 for the person's badge. We can't commit to repping and selling your game without this person there.
Nuance #1: if the rep is already a person who's there for their own game, then the extra $55 isn't an issue and doesn't have to be paid, and (frankly) the whole $100 shouldn't be either. Perhaps a lower rate to help with booth costs: $50 seems reasonable.
Nuance #2: if you have a free game that you'd like to be distributed at the booth, and if you aren't going to be there, get me a copy or a file well ahead of time (do not mail it to me the week before or to the hotel; it won't work). The game will be passed out enthusiastically at the booth, often with purchases. No fee is charged at all, although if I end up printing it and copying it for you, I'll bill ya.
Final point: everyone has an opinion, and everyone, everyone has suggestions about what I should do or the way "it" should be ... please, if you have suggestions, that's great, but bear in mind that if you don't volunteer to help bring them to light, I probably won't have time to do anything but the basics.
Best,
Ron
Having just sent Ron my first check, it's safe to say that Seraphim Guard will be represented at the Forge booth.
I'm waiting to hear how much the hotel share will be before I send Ron that share of the money. I'm also waiting on a tax refund. Depending on how many people volunteer for the space, Ron may not even know at this point how much each share is.
One other question that comes to mind -- the guy who is helping me write HeartQuest D20 runs his own small press, and it ios very rare for him to do conventions. He wanted to know if I could represent his products at GenCon.
I'm looking forward to seeing you all and doing some good gaming and game promoting and selling.
I'm in. Ron, when do you need the money? And how--check or PayPal? I'll be representing Incarnadine (if it's done), and possibly FVLMINATA. I definitely like the game handout idea, but I was also thinking of a "demo menu" sort of thing ... possibly a big poster at the back of the booth. It would list the games that are available for demos, a brief blurb about each, and a list of which individuals at the booth have demoes prepped to run for said game. That way if somebody's interested in InSpectres but Jared's busy, one of the greeter/chatter folks can look at the Demo Menu, see that Mike Miller has an InSpectres demo ready, that he's just taking up space at the moment, and match interested party with demo-person.
As far as emphasizing talents, I think it's a great idea. My strong suit is sitting at the tables and running games. (Did I ever mention that I once scared off someone who came to the convention interested in FVLMINATA through my sales pitch alone? A salesman I ain't). Besides my games, I'm aiming to have demos prepped for Sorcerer, Trollbabe, Paladin, Donjon, Dust Devils, InSpectres, and possibly octaNe & Universalis. Possibly more to come.
Oh, if we think the Demo Menu is a good idea, I volunteer to get it together, lay it out, and possibly spring for printing it up as well.
Hi there,
Let's see ...
Phil, you may not know that we ran a Forge booth like this last year at GenCon which was very successful, especially for the small-press folks who brought small print runs. It was like an old-style play-centered mini-convention nestled within GenCon for four days.
Michael H, all the hotel finances will be handled after the con. I'll pay for two rooms up front, and afterwards I'll bill everyone for his or her share based on the days they shared the room. Worked fine last year.
Michael S. M., I'm confused - you're one of the people I approached about sharing primary costs for the booth. That's a whole different animal. Please contact me privately.
Best,
Ron
I hope there will be enough companies at the Forge endcap that Ron doesn;t have to pay more than hois fair share for either the dealers space or the hotel rooms.
I was at the GPA booth last year and had a lot less fun than you guys did. On the other hand, I made quite a bit of money. I want to do both this year.
Turns out that I am also making transportation plans (although I can't actually buy my tickets until I get my expected tax refund). The current plan has me flying in on the Red-Eye from Portland and flying out VERY early Monday morning. This should be very interesting, as I am not sure I can sleep on an airplane and will have to go right to work setting up a booth (not to mention trying to figure out a way to get my merchandise there).
How many people do they expect to have to cram into those two hotel rooms? Which hotel will they be in and how close is it to the Convention Center? Can I get a 3AM wake-up call Monday morning without annoying everyone else? Or would I be better off just not sleeping that night?
Expiring minds want to know!
I'd say tentatively count me in.
The only issue is that the purchase of an engagement ring looms over my head this summer.... So, money may be tighter than I realize...
Ron, if we bring our own posters and so on -- will there be a place to put those up? How much freebies/promotional stuff is too much? And would it be a good idea to have a general booth mailing list sign-up to those who might want info sent through email after the con?
Thanks,
Nathan Hill
nathanh@cameron.edu
I'm planning on being there, whether or not my stuff is ready for sale.
I'm the trade show guy where I work, so I'll be glad to help out with whatever stuff is necessary. Ron, if you want some assistance dealing with all the show stuff that inevitably goes wrong, let me know. I'm hereby volunteering.
A suggestion from a trade show perspective, just to mull around, is to have people working the booth get and wear Forge T-shirts from cafe press, so booth visitors know who they can ask about stuff.
And maybe order a few of those to sell at the show.
Quote from: Ron EdwardsThat means directing people who might be interested toward them and being willing to sit in on a demo if an extra person is needed.
I dunno, Ron. I have to actually play in some RPGs? I might get stuck playing with Blair again. Talk about your onerous duties.
;-)
Um, kidding aside, I wonder what my particular talent is. I feel a bit like Mr. Miller in that I worry that I scare people more than attract them.
Or is Starchild going to be next door again, so I can resume my position as jam guitarrist! :-)
(I won't subject you to that again, I promise. Well, if you twist my arm...)
But seriously, folks, how do we make the position assessments? Is someone going to take a leadership role on that?
I think the plan sounds beyond excellent, and I look forward to seeing everyone again.
Mike
Quote from: Matt WilsonI'm planning on being there, whether or not my stuff is ready for sale.
You ain't goin' there with me, Mr Wilson! Who's gonna shine your shoes, fetch you ice water, and taste your food?
Seriously though, Ron, I'm in, too. I'm a Mingler first, a Demo GM second, but never ever ever get me near a cash box.. I'm awful at sales. :) Point me in whatever direction you need, and it'll get done.
QuoteA suggestion from a trade show perspective, just to mull around, is to have people working the booth get and wear Forge T-shirts from cafe press, so booth visitors know who they can ask about stuff.
I think that's an awesome idea, Matt!
-j-
Yeah, wearing the shirts was bandied about last year, but didn't really get acted on. For those who don't have shirts for whatever reason, perhaps we can make up some sort of badge adjunct (like other booths have), or something even more noticeable to idenify our personnel.
But if at all possible, Forge wear!
(off to actually buy some...slink, slink)
Mike
Is there a link to where I can get the shirts? After I get my tax refund, I may buy two -- and then buy a couple of Seraphim Guard shirts from my own site to balance them out so I have enough clean T-Shirts for the con.
Michael,
Click on the "About the Forge" link above, and scroll to the end of the page.
Quote from: Clinton R. NixonMichael,
Click on the "About the Forge" link above, and scroll to the end of the page.
Any chance of getting the new logo on a shirt? Its pretty nice :)
-j-
Jeff,
Real Soon Now (tm). I'm working on integrating the URL with the logo somehow and not making it look like crap.
Quote from: Clinton R. NixonReal Soon Now (tm).
Oh, sure, just toss me another reason to procrastinate indefintitely.
Mike
Quote from: Clinton R. NixonJeff,
Real Soon Now (tm). I'm working on integrating the URL with the logo somehow and not making it look like crap.
Cool, thanks Clinton.
-j-
A few more questions in preparation for sharing the Forge booth at GenCon.
1. How far in advance does Ron need to know about the room and my place in it? And will the bathroom be used for its intended purpose (bathing) or as storage for cold sodas and the like? I was told second-hand about complaints about "gamer funk" at my booth last year and I want to avoid that this time. Hopefully we will also be able to wake each other up in time to set up our booth even if we game far into the night.
2. What should we do about meals? I know nothing about the restaurants around the Convention Center GenCon will be using. Will some of us be chipping in on group meals, or are we all on our own? Can you get a decent gyudon in Indianapolis? How far away is the nearest White Castle, and can we bring White Castles into the dealers room for the booth tenants to share? (I had some White Castles with cheese on the bus ride from origins back to Portland at a stop in Indianapolis, and I believe!)
3. Does this hotel offer a free breakfast? 8^)
4. How does shipping to and from GenCon work? If I have my warehouser ship me my books before the convention, will they get to me the day we set up our booth? And how do I ship them back?
5. Are there any soft drinks, snack types or other foods unique to Indianapolis that I should try? 8^)
Quote from: Michael HopcroftAnd will the bathroom be used for its intended purpose (bathing) or as storage for cold sodas and the like? I was told second-hand about complaints about "gamer funk" at my booth last year and I want to avoid that this time.
Egads, I thought that was an urban myth! I'm sure Ron will prohibit this, but in case he does not, I'll personally invade the room, and clear the tub to allow for suitable gamer hygiene.
Gotta make the Convention safe for gamers.
Mike
Quote from: Mike HolmesQuote from: Michael HopcroftAnd will the bathroom be used for its intended purpose (bathing) or as storage for cold sodas and the like? I was told second-hand about complaints about "gamer funk" at my booth last year and I want to avoid that this time.
Egads, I thought that was an urban myth! I'm sure Ron will prohibit this, but in case he does not, I'll personally invade the room, and clear the tub to allow for suitable gamer hygiene.
Gotta make the Convention safe for gamers.
Mike
It is NOT an urban myth. I used to run room parties at conventions, and the only way to keep our sodas cold was to put them in the tub and fill the tub with ice. The hotel nevber objected, but it made it kind of hard to take a shower.
Don't worry, these aren't party rooms and I have no plans of doing likewise at GenCon. Just wanted to make sure nobody else had similar ideas.
By the way, I once SLEPT in the bathtub during a con. Or tried to -- the things are not very comfortable for that purpose...
Hi Michael,
Ease up on the room anxiety, OK? Cleanliness, organization, etc, are all going to be handled as nicely as they were last year. No problems arose then, and we all arrived at the exhibitor hall smelling like ... like, um, normal people. (Metaphors failed me.)
As for getting up really really early, take it from me, booth setup is not a big deal every morning. We have a lot of people, we get into the hall at least an hour before all the con-goers do, and it works fine without having to get there at 5 or 6 or any crap like that.
Best,
Ron
Quote from: Ron EdwardsNo problems arose then, and we all arrived at the exhibitor hall smelling like...
... Indie Gaming Ninjas!
1. We're responsible for our own toiletries (soap, deodorant, shampoo, shaving cream, etc.), right? 8^)
2. I'm really wondering about food now. Where can we eat? Cons always make me hungry, especially hot dealers rooms, and I tend to eat like a hobbit in that setting.
3. Room service strictly cash, OK? 8^)
4. Do you have any idea how muhc the airport shuttles are going to be to this particular hotel? Taking public transit in a strange city is usually fairly awkward for me. I know it was in Columbus.
Quote from: Ron EdwardsHi Michael,
Ease up on the room anxiety, OK? Cleanliness, organization, etc, are all going to be handled as nicely as they were last year. No problems arose then, and we all arrived at the exhibitor hall smelling like ... like, um, normal people. (Metaphors failed me.)
As for getting up really really early, take it from me, booth setup is not a big deal every morning. We have a lot of people, we get into the hall at least an hour before all the con-goers do, and it works fine without having to get there at 5 or 6 or any crap like that.
Best,
Ron
Not having experienced the Forge experience last year, I'm just naturally full of these not-knowing-the-score questions.
Cleanliness and organization should be fine. I just hope I can be reminded to shower before every morning. I may NEED to be reminded, as I bathe at night and my usual practise when I get up in the morning is to throw on my clothes and go wherever I'm going. In this case, though, given the summer heat, morning showers are a MUST....
Hey all;
We (Limestone Publishing) are interested getting on all this Forge booth action as well. All three of us are probably best at mingling and running games, though at least one of us is at least passable at getting people to approach a booth or making sales.
However, as others have suggested, if we're to discuss, promote, and run games other than our own, we need to have a working knowledge of those games in advance. In any case, we can officially add Limestone Publishing (Chain of Being and the supplement The Monster Cookbook) to the list of companies participating/products available there.
The flier/booklet is also a great idea we'd be glad to participate in that.
Ron, should we pay you now or later for the Exhibitor pass and right to sell the game, and how do we take care of this payment?
Hi Dan,
Payments are being accepted as of this week - Paypal is preferred, to sorcerer@sorcerer-rpg.com.
For everyone, the deadline is going to be more stringent this year because we have this flyer thing and other promo stuff to consider. I am going to say that the latest you can sign up is June 1st, that is, unless anyone gives me a good reason for why that would be stupid.
Best,
Ron
Damn. I so wanna go to GenCON. I wish you all well this year, and look forward to helping out another year.
In fact, I might make a clause like, "I'll only let myself go to GenCON when I've finally produced one or more of these game ideas I've been sitting on". That will really light a fire under my ass.
Godspeed, gentlemen!
I'm trying to figure out how to get my events registered. Since I'll be getting my badge from Ron, but I need to get my events into the process immediately, what is the best way to go about this?
Considering that the game submission form was available before you could even order a badge I suspect you don't need one. I would just download the submission form from the Gencon web site, fill it out and email it to them. If you need a badge they will let you know.
You could always call them too.
,Matt G.
I confess, this sounds brilliant.
Are forge-newbies welcome?
-L
Hi L,
Absolutely.
Best,
Ron
Outstanding,
I would love to join in the fun. This sounds like an underdog dream come true.
So I admit to being a bit new at this. I've never been to GenCon before and I know very (very very) little about other rpgs. Of course, I am willing to learn.
I think my strength is demoing. I've been told that I am pretty good at it. And I know I am dismal as a point man or a closer. So put me in the middle!
Also, I would be happy to toss in a couple of extra bucks on top of the $100 fee to help with the booklet and/or poster-menu.
Indianapolis, huh?
-Luke
Just an idea or two.
It might be worthwhile to chip in for a half page ad in the preregistration booklet or to have a bag stuffer for the gencon generic plastic swag bag that is given out every year. I favor the first idea as it builds up interest in advance and may mean the booth is on people's "Strike List" for the first day. Every game/company of those participating should get their game logo and a quick slug line to attract interest. It also may help convention buzz when people talk to each other.
Bag stuffers could contain a coupon for a percent off or a freebie to attract traffic. Some weird little thing could be the freebie if it's bought in bulk. I would suggest the "so gross it's cool" variety of freebie. Although this method can get a lot of mooches buzzing by.
In the past I have used a "Land's End" polo shirt with an embroidered company name on it and a pair of chinos to present a casual, professional appearance while remaining comfortable in the heat. A bulk order of shirts could cut down on prices. (two shirts, two pants; hang and dry in the shower on the day they're not being used.)
I won't be able to attend this year. My game: "Planets of Peril" will be in the playtesting stages by summer and I won't have the artwork done by GenCon. GC2004 should be looking much better for me.
Best of Luck,
Keith B. Vaughn
What if I was selling gaming/nerd related t-shirt and buttons?
http://www.nerdnyc.com
I'm good at working a booth. I currently work at a library and have to speak knowledgeably about our collection. I used to work at a marketing firm, so I know all about making the sale.
I also have graphic design skill which can be put to use if we would make a catalogue.
I could work demos as well. I pick things up pretty quickly.
Hi there,
Selling accessories isn't going to be part of the booth. You're welcome, of course, to participate as a demo person and booth-worker, but the only sales at the booth will be of independent games.
Best,
Ron
...shame about Aaron's tees. They are stellar! And Aaron is as indie as they come, and he loves games. But I do understand that the booth is for indie-rpgs, not for hot duds. Ah well.
In regards to promo items for the swag bag I have yet two more ideas!
4-Color 4x6 postcard/stickers. Very cheap to make, very easy to design, fairly fast turn around, and very easy to slip inside of books and bags. You can get 5000 postcards for under $350. So if a few people chipped in that becomes very cheap. The postcard could feature the Forge logo as the banner/masthead of indie-ness and then each game could have a nice clean, glossy full color logo underneath or on the back.
And as a second promo idea--now that I think about it, this is too wacky--what about Forge dice? Let's start branding! A nice fat, glossy d6 with the Forge anvil in place of the 1? Those would be great giveaways at the demos. People would remember us.
But we are having enough trouble with deciding on catalogue vs flyer, so I think I best just cool my jets.
One pertinent question: What happened to the big board/menu idea. Something to catch ye old eye of the passerby? I didst liketh this.
ahem.
-Luke
I can finally say my booth is secure. Now I just need to make sure I have new product to sell there....
A new question has been brought to my attention. The convention will take place during the school term. I can take my classes as long as I have some access to a laptop computer and some way to plug it into the Internet. Will this be possible at any point? Or would it be too big a distraction to everyone else in the room? (At the booth, of course, I intend to concentrate on business, and there are games I am scheduled to run).
Michael,
I'm not sure how they worked it last year (or this year), but the year before Gencon had computers available to check your email. During the day there was always a line and a time limit, but after 10 or 11pm they were completely free.
Also, most hotels have internet lines, but you will have to check with your hotel and see if there is an additional charge.
,Matt G.
Thanks for the info. The e-mail would mainly be useful for business, and to keep my inbox from being a mass of spam when I get home, but I wouldn't ahve enough computer time to take my classes.
Since I'll be staying at whatever hotel Ron finds for the bunch of us, it'll rather be up to them what kind of access I get.
And this will all be moot if I don;t get the use of a laptop.