The Forge Archives

One: Characters

    The first step of character creation is to write a short (about fifty words) paragraph describing your character. This is not a term paper, nor is it a single sentence. The paragraph should describe what your character is good at, their passions and drives, family, friends, background, and anything else.
    After you have written this paragraph, pick three to five Traits from the information that you gave. Traits can be almost anything, from Strong to Swordsmen to Loves Jolene. Traits should be narrow and well defined. For instance, Weapons is too broad, as is Passionate. What type of weapons does your character use? Are they an Archer? How are they passionate? Do they love deeply, or have strong fits of anger?
    Then, assign a rating of two to five for each trait. A higher rating indicates a stronger trait. The total of the ratings of all of your Traits may not exceed ten, and characters must use at least six points on traits.
    Now that you know your Traits, you can figure your Spin Pool. First, you must find your Spin Modifier, which is equal to eleven minus the sum of all your starting Traits. Your Spin Pool starts at two plus three times your Spin Modifier, and may fluxuate up and down durring the game.

Trait    Skill Level
01       Untrained, Joe Average
02       Trained but nothing special
03       Real talent is evident
04       One of the best around
05       the best around, maybe even ever

    Example: Alex is creating a new character, Joseth. He writes: 'Joseth's father was murdered in cold blood by a prince, and Joseth has dedicated his life to tracking the man down. He has become a master of the blade in order to dispath the man, and stays fit so that he may catch him.' From this, Joseth distills the traits Swordsman at four, Seeking Revenge for Father at four, and Athletics at two. He has spent all ten of his Trait points, so his Spin Modifier is one, and his Spin Pool is five.

Two: System

    Whenever a character attempts to do something difficult, they will make a Roll. When a character makes a Roll, they roll a six-sided die. They may spend Spin to roll up to four extra dice. Spent spin is immediately subtracted from a character's Spin pool.
    Before they roll, a character may pick a relevant Trait. This may be any Trait that they possess, as long as they can logically relate it to the task at hand. If they can't find a relevant Trait, their Trait value is treated as one.
    When a character makes a Roll, the GM must set a Difficulty for the Roll. This Difficulty should be one for a moderately hard task, two for difficult tasks, three for very difficult tasks, and four for a task that borders on the impossible. If the task is being actively resisted by another character, the GM does not set a Difficulty. Instead, both players roll, and the one that gets the most Successes wins. If both characters roll the same number of Successes, the one with the higher relevant Trait value wins. If both characters have the same Trait value, then the roll is a tie.
    Every die that comes up equal to the character's relevant Trait value is treated as a Success. If the player rolls at least as many Successes as the task's Difficulty, the task succeeds.
   Every time a character rolls one or more Successes, their Spin rating increases by the number of Successes rolled.

    Example: Joseth is chasing after a catpurse that snatched his money pouch. He makes a check to catch up, spending two points of Spin (bringing his pool down to three) and using Athletics as the key trait. He rolles a one, a four, and a six: one success, raising Joseth's spin pool to four. The catpurse rolls spends one of his three points of spin, and has no relevant trait. He rolls a one and a two: also one success, and his Spin goes back up to three. Because Joseth has the higher Trait, he wins the contest, and catches up with his target.

Three: Combat

    When characters are engaged in combat, time is broken down into Rounds. Each Round, characters may normally perform one Action. If they wish, they may spend a point of Spin to take a second action. Their third action costs two Spin, their fourth action costs three Spin, and so on.
    Striking another character in combat normally has a Difficulty of one. However, if they take an action to dodge your attack (they must declare that they are dodging before your attack is rolled), the attack is instead an Opposed Roll.
    When a character is actually hit in combat, the attacker compares the number of Successes that they rolled on the attack plus their weapon's Damage Modifier (the total of these two numbers is the attack's Damage Rating) to the defender's highest Trait relating to brawn or endurance. Typical Damage Values are zero for an unarmed attack or knife, one for a short sword, two for a rapier or pistol, and three for a large axe or rifle. The defender suffers Wounds equal to the attack's Damage Rating minus their relevant Trait. If a character's relevant Trait is equal to or higher than the Damage Rating, they still take one Wound, unless the damage is ridiculously low and their Trait is ridiculously high. If a character is wearing a significant amount of armor, they will take one less point of damage from many attacks. Exactly which attacks have their damage reduced is up to the GM.
    If a character has at least two Wounds, they must spend one point of Spin whenever they attempt an action. If they have at least four Wounds, this increases to two points of Spin. When a character has accumulated five Wounds, they are knocked out. If they take any more Wounds, they will most likely die, but this is up to the GM.

    Example: Joseth has cornered the catpurse, and has him by the scruff of the neck, when the rogue pulls a knife on him. The catpurse spends all three of his spin, and uses his Brawl trait at two, rolling one, one, five, six, for two successes. His Spin pool jumps back up to two. Joseth doesn't have his sword out, so can't parry the blow, and decides to take the strike. He takes two Wounds, as he has no armor or relevant Trait. For his action, Joseth whips out his sword and attacks, automatically spending one point of Spin because of his wounds, and uses the remaining three for the attack. The thug dodges, paying one Spin for the extra action, and using the other point to enhance his dodge. He rolls a five and a six; no successes, and leaving the poor fool with no remaining Spin. Joseth rolls a two, three, three, six: three successes against his Swordsmanship of four, and three points of Spin total. The catpurse's Brawl of two reduces the damage by two points, and Joseth's weapon (a rapier) increases it by one, for a total of two damage. The catpurse, knowing defeat when he sees it, drops the knife and Joseth's money and runs. Joseth doesn't follow.

Four: Rejuvenating

    Characters regain some of their former glory when they take a bit of time for rest and recreation. While taking a breather, characters slowly recover their health and regain Spin.
    Each day that a character rests, they may make a Roll to reduce their Wound Total. The Difficulty of this roll is equal to the number of Wounds that a character has, minus one. If they succeed, they recover one Wound.
    In addition, characters at rest regain some Spin each day. At the end of each day of rest, roll a number of dice equal to ten minus the character's current Spin Pool, with a minimum of no dice. Each die that rolls equal to or under the character's Spin Modifier lets them regain one point of Spin.

Five: Advancement

    Through the course of the game, characters may grow and change. There are two ways that a character's Traits can shift: Redistribution and Experience.
    Redistribution is when a character decreases or eliminates one trait to increase or add to another. For example, Alex's character, Joseth, has Seeking Revenge for Father at four. At the end of an adventure, in a climactic battle, he cathes up with his father's murderer, and slays him. With that trait now irrelevant, Alex decides to increase his Swordsmanship by one (bringing it all the way up to five), increase his Athletics by one (for a total of three), and add Bluffing at two. As always, Traits must be at least two, and cannot be increased above five.
    When a character or group of characters have accomplished a long term goal, the Game Master may award them Experience. When the GM does this, each player may either increase one of their character's Traits by one point (but not to six or above), or add a  new Trait at two.
    Note that characters may never have more than five Traits at any one time. Also, note that even if a character's Traits increase, their Spin Modifier remains the same.

Comments on the system?
-- -- -- -- -- -- --

Okay: A few notes. Firstly, I designed this game with The Princess Bride in mind, right after having read the pool, and a day after downloading the quickstart version of The Riddle of Steel. You may have noticed that Joseth is Inigo with a different name. With the Princess Bride thing in mind, stats for the main characters using Spin System:

Inigo: Swordsman 5, Seeking Revenge for Father 3, Athletics 2. Spin Modifier 1, Spin Pool 5.
Fezzik: Incrediby Strong Arms 5, Incredibly Tough 5. Spin Modifier 1, Spin Pool 5.
Vizzini: Read People Like Books 4, Dizzying Intellect 3, Criminal Contacts 3. Spin Modifier 1, Spin Pool 5..
Buttercup: Dazzlingly Beutiful 5, Loves Westly 3, Act Like a Noble 2. Spin Modifier 1, Spin Pool 5.
Prince Humberdinck: Expert Hunter 4, Rule a Country 3, Evil Machinations 3.
Count Ruegen: Knows Everything About Pain 5, Political Jockey 3, Swordsman 2.
Westly: (note that he is not a beginning character.) Swordsman 5, Sailor 3, Loves Buttercup 3, Athletics 5, Great Ideas 3, Resistant to Poisons 3, Brawling 3, Farming 3. Spin Modifier 5 (his beginning traits were Loves Buttercup 3 and Farming 3), Spin Pool 17.

Because this is based loosely off tPB, I don't mind characters being able to be the best ever. Afterall, Buttercup was the most beutiful girl in the world, Inigo was the best fencer in the world, and Fezzik was the strongest man in the world.

Not that, even though it has a medieval foundation, it is really a pretty generic system, leaning towards the heroic side.

Inspiration from The Riddle of Steel: I love the combat pool thing, and realistic combat. However, I dislike differences between the way combat is done and the way the rest of the game is done. So why not make the Combat Pool apply to all situations?

Inspiration from The Pool: When I read through this, that's when I got the idea of a 'spin pool'. Not being a die-hard narrativist, I cut back on the narrativist aspects of The Pool, and introduced a mechanic for tougher situations (higher difficulty). Also, I dislike how a Trait in the pool can fade away when submerged in the plethora of bonus dice from the character's Pool, and having a Trait serve as a TN helps to offset that.

A character will on average, unless they have a Trait of 5, lose more Spin then they gain. The amount of Spin gained per roll is equal to (Trait x [Spin spent + 1]) / 6. I'm still working on the equations for determining the chance of success for a specific combination of Traits and spent Spin against a certain Difficulty. Any assistance in this area is appreciated.

Yeah, I like it. Being a TROS fan, a Princes Bride fan, and someone who likes the Pool, that's not unusual though :-)

Probabilities are easy. I'll knock something up for you today.

Brian.

If you give me your email address, I'll send you a little program I just wrote that shows you the percentage chances of 0 through 5 successes, for trait levels 1 through 5 for anything from 1 to 6 dice.

Brian.

Sent you my email, Brian. :)

Okay, a revision of the rules. The new version uses a roundless combat system, allows Traits at one (they won't help much, but hey), and has characters regain Spin between scenes (for a pace-picker-upper), among other tweaks.


One: Characters

   The first step of character creation is to write a short (about fifty words) paragraph describing your character. This is not a term paper, nor is it a single sentence. The paragraph should describe what your character is good at, their passions and drives, family, friends, background, and anything else.

   After you have written this paragraph, pick three to five Traits from the information that you gave. Traits can be almost anything, from Strong to Swordsmen to Loves Jolene. Traits should be narrow and well defined. For instance, Weapons is too broad, as is Passionate. What type of weapons does your character use? Are they an Archer? How are they passionate? Do they love deeply, or have strong fits of anger?

   Not all of your character's Traits have to be positive qualities. In fact, none of them do. For instance, you may choose Cowardice to be one of their Traits. This would aid your character in fleeing from danger, and getting the other guy to go see if the dragon's really 'just sleeping'.

   Then, assign a rating of two to five for each trait. A higher rating indicates a stronger trait. The total of the ratings of all of your Traits may not exceed ten, and characters must use at least six points on traits.

   If a player wishes, they may 'break the rules' and set a Trait at one. A trait at one provides very little imediate game benefit, but lets that Trait increase to a useful level more quickly, and can help out in tied opposed rolls.

   Now that you know your Traits, you can figure your Spin Pool. First, you must find your Spin Modifier, which is equal to eleven minus the sum of all your starting Traits. Your Spin Pool starts at two plus three times your Spin Modifier, and may fluctuate up and down during the game.

   Example: Alex is creating a new character, Biran. He writes: 'Biran's father was murdered in cold blood by a prince, and Biran has dedicated his life to tracking the man down. He has become a master of the blade in order to dispatch the man, and uses his natural charm and cunning to advance his goal.' From this, Alex distills the traits Swordsman at four, Seeking Revenge for Father at three, and Manipulative at two. He has spent nine of his Trait points, so Byran's Spin Modifier is two, and his Spin Pool is eight.



Two: System

   Whenever a character attempts to do something difficult, they will make a Roll. When a character makes a Roll, they roll a six-sided die. They may spend Spin to roll up to four extra dice. Spent spin is immediately subtracted from a character's Spin pool.

   Before they roll, a character may pick a relevant Trait. This may be any Trait that they possess, as long as they can logically relate it to the task at hand. If they can't find a relevant Trait, their Trait value is treated as one.

   When a character makes a Roll, the GM must set a Difficulty for the Roll. This Difficulty should be one for a moderately hard task, two for difficult tasks, three for very difficult tasks, and four for a task that borders on the impossible. If the task is being actively resisted by another character, the GM does not set a Difficulty. Instead, both players roll, and the one that gets the most Successes wins. If both characters roll the same number of Successes, the one with the higher relevant Trait value wins. If both characters have the same Trait value, then the roll is a tie.

   Every die that comes up equal to the character's relevant Trait value is treated as a Success. If the player rolls at least as many Successes as the task's Difficulty, the task succeeds.

   Every time a character rolls one or more Successes, their Spin rating increases by the number of Successes rolled.

   Example: The thief quitely snuck up to Byron, eyes fixed upon the man's bulging moneypouch. A quick slash, and then he'd disappear across the moonlit rooftops of the night.

   The Thief has a Pickpocketing Trait of three, and a Spin Pool of five. He spends three of his Spin Pool, rolling six, four, three, one: two successes, and a current Spin of four. The GM asks Alex to make a roll for Byron involving perception. Byron has no relevant Trait, but Alex doesn't want to be duped, so spends two points of Spin. He rolls one, one, five: two successes and a Spin remaining at eight. Because the theif has a higher Trait, he succeeds at the task, but the GM rules that Byron is at least aware of the rogue.

   The thief's hand darted in, the dagger twirled deftly, and the pouch fell into his hand. Sensing a slight tug, Byron spun around, but too late: a shadowy figure leapt up onto a barrel, then up a fence, and was now bounding away over the city's shingled peaks. Byron whiped out his sword, roared, and gave chase.

   Byron again has no relative Trait, but wants to get his money back, because he earned it, damn it! He spends four points of Spin, rolling one, one, four, five, five: two Successes, and a current Spin Pool of six. The theif is again ready for this sort of thing, with a Quick Getaway Trait of two. He spends three points of Spin, rolling one, two, two, three: three Successes, a current Spin Pool of four, and a victory.

   The thief nimbly leapt over a rooftop, and was gone. Byron stopped, breathing hard, and began casting about in the shadows. There! More distant, but still there. The chase goes on . . .



Three: Combat

   When characters are engaged in combat, time is not broken down into rounds, as it is in many other Role Playing Games. Instead, characters simply declare an action, state what Trait they are using and give a justification if necessary, and assign a number of Spin to the roll. After they have done this, but before they have rolled any dice, all other characters have a chance to react. They, too, will follow the above process. Then, players either roll appropriate dice, or one or more of them Bolsters their roll.

   When a player decides to Bolster one of their characters' rolls, they must immediately pay 1 point of Spin. After they have done this, they may add extra dice to the roll on a one-for-one basis, as long as the total number or dice rolled does not exceed five. Bolstering can represent extra effort, a feint, a shift of the wind, or anything else. Each player may only Bolster once per roll, but you may Bolster in reaction to the Bolstering of another. After all Bolstering is done, the roll is made.

   Striking another character in combat normally has a Difficulty of one. However, if the target declares that they are Dodging your attack (they must declare that they are dodging before your attack is rolled), the attack is instead an Opposed Roll.

   When a character is actually hit in combat, the attacker figure's the attack's Damage Rating, which is equal to the number of successes rolled in the attack plus the Damage Modifier of the weapon used. Typical Damage Modifiers are zero for an unarmed attack or knife, one for a short sword, two for a rapier or pistol, and three for a large axe or rifle.

   The defender may now take an action to Soak Damage. If they do, they make a relevant roll. Subtract the number of Successes rolled from the attack's Damage Rating. The defender takes this many Wounds. Characters that don't wear armor can only soak damage that comes from impacts, such as a punch or fall.  

   If a character has at least two Wounds, they must spend one point of Spin whenever they attempt an action. If they have at least four Wounds, this increases to two points of Spin. When a character has accumulated five Wounds, they are knocked out. If they take any more Wounds, they will most likely die, but this is up to the GM. Characters damaged by edged or pointed weapons are more likely to die than those hurt by impacts.

   Example: As he ran, the theif flipped his knife, so that he held the blade between his two fingers. He wanted to end this chase, end it now: that man looked dangerous. He cocked the blade back, let fly.

   The thief has a Knife Fighting Trait at three, and spends his entire remaining Spin Pool (four points). Alex says that Byron attempts to deftly knock the dagger out of the air with his sabre, using his Swordsman skill at four, and also spending four points of his Spin Pool. The thief rolls one, two, two, six, six: three successes, and a current Spin of three. Alex rolls one, two, three, four, five: four successes, a current Spin of eight (still), and a successful manuever.

   Byron twirls his sword, flicking it like a snake, and the dagger ceases it's flight and clatters to the roof, then slides off to the street below. The theif pulls another knife as Byron leaps over the rooftops to close and attack.

   The GM rules that this is actually two actions for Byron: one to close, one to attack. Alex spends four points of Spin to catch the theif, using the default Trait of one. The thief, knowing that he'll be caught eventually, spends no Spin points, and uses his Quick Getaway of two. Byron rolls one, one, five, five, six: two successes, and a Spin Pool of six. The theif rolls a four: no successes, and his Spin remains at four. Byron closes.

   Next comes the attack. Byron's Swordsman Trait at four applies, and Alex elects to spend just two points of Spin. The thief attempts to catch the blade with the hilt of his knife, using his Kife Fighting at three, and spending three Spin. Alex then Bolsters, adding another two dice to the attack, and rolling one, two, five, five, six: two successes, and a Spin now at three. The thief rolls one, two, four, four: two Successes, and a curret Spin of three. Because Byron has a higher relevant Trait, his attack hits.  It deals four points of damage: two for successes, and two for the weapon used (a sabre). As he does not wear armor, the thief can not Soak damage.

   Byron rushes across the rooftop, leaping over a chimney and using his momentum to aid a quick strike at the thief's shoulder. The sabre slashes into flesh, and the rogue cries out in pain. Knowing that he's faced with an opponent of superior skill and drive, he drops the money pouch and flees for his life.



Four: Rejuvenating

   Characters regain some of their former glory when they take a bit of time for rest and recreation. While taking a breather, characters slowly recover their health and regain Spin.

   Each day that a character rests, they may make a Roll to reduce their Wound Total. The Difficulty of this roll is equal to the number of Wounds that a character has, minus one. If they succeed, they recover one Wound.

   In addition, characters at rest regain some Spin when they're not climbing mile high cliffs, combating the forces of evil, or doing other strenuous work. Between scenes, each player will roll a number of dice equal to ten minus their character's current Spin Pool, with a minimum of no dice. Each die that rolls equal to or under the character's Spin Modifier lets them regain one point of Spin.

   Example: After the bout with the purse snatcher, the scene ends. Byron picks up his money, and shudders in the cold night air. It is refreshing, and he can feel his vitality flowing back.

   Byron currently has a Spin Pool of three, and a Spin Modifier of two. Therefore, he rolls 7 dice, and regains one point of Spin for each one or two rolled. He rolls two, two, three, four, five, six, six; regaining two points of Spin and bringing his pool back up to five.



Five: Advancement

   Through the course of the game, characters may grow and change. There are two ways that a character's Traits can shift: Redistribution and Experience.

   Redistribution is when a character decreases or eliminates one trait to increase or add to another. This should only be done with the Game Master's permission, and only when it makes sense.

   When a character or group of characters have accomplished a long term goal, the Game Master may award them Experience. When the GM does this, each player may increase one of their character's Traits by one point (but not to six or above).

   Note that characters may never have more than five Traits at any one time. Also, note that even if a character's Traits increase, their Spin Modifier remains the same.

   Example: At long last, Byron has found his father's murderer, and put an end to him. The Game Master awards Alex a point of Experience to spend. He puts it into Swordsmanship, increasing that Trait to five.

   In addition, with his target of revenge out of the way, he has three points from his Seeking Revenge for Father Trait to redistribute. He chooses to switch the trait to Longlasting Hate of Noir, the royal family to which the prince belonged.

Good stuff. Just a couple of points/questions:

Quote from: JephWhen characters are engaged in combat, time is not broken down into rounds, as it is in many other Role Playing Games. Instead, characters simply declare an action, state what Trait they are using and give a justification if necessary, and assign a number of Spin to the roll. After they have done this, but before they have rolled any dice, all other characters have a chance to react. They, too, will follow the above process. Then, players either roll appropriate dice, or one or more of them Bolsters their roll.

That seems a tiny bit haphazard. If you have 3 characters, and three NPC's involved in a combat, who declares first, and who has to merely react to other declarations? Is it dependant on who can shout the loudest/quickest? I can understand the desire to get away from a turn-based system, but with the system you have, I fear some level of chaos.

It should be possible to interject some order in there while still keeping away from rounds (maybe). How about this: All players roll against any related trait (any kind of quickness, deftness, nimbleness, whatever, otherwise defauly to 1 as usual). Highest roll gets to declare first (or can defer to the next highest, and so on). Once that initial declaration is out there, the realities of combat will probably not necessitate any further "initiative" type rolls, but if it comes down to that again, just look at the orders rolled. Conversely, you could simply allow bids for the first action, whoever is prepared to spent the most spin. Just a thought, what do you think?

Quote from: JephWhen a player decides to Bolster one of their characters' rolls, they must immediately pay 1 point of Spin. After they have done this, they may add extra dice to the roll on a one-for-one basis, as long as the total number or dice rolled does not exceed five. Bolstering can represent extra effort, a feint, a shift of the wind, or anything else. Each player may only Bolster once per roll, but you may Bolster in reaction to the Bolstering of another. After all Bolstering is done, the roll is made.

Nice, I really like this mechanic. However, is it possible to throw a bone in there for characters who are naturally better at feinting et al? Your master fencer, your sly cutpurse, etc. These kinds of characters should be better than others at feinting (and this is true in non-combat situations also: A wily moneylender should have an easier time bolstering their roll to swindle the characters out of their cash while exchanging money than the stallkeeper on the side of the street would).

Quote from: JephWhen a character is actually hit in combat, the attacker figure's the attack's Damage Rating, which is equal to the number of successes rolled in the attack plus the Damage Modifier of the weapon used. Typical Damage Modifiers are zero for an unarmed attack or knife, one for a short sword, two for a rapier or pistol, and three for a large axe or rifle.

I'm probably just too find of sim play, but it irks me when I have just as much chance to hit someone with an axe/rifle as I do punching them, but the axe/rifle does a lot more damage - why would anyone ever take a weapon with less than +3 damage? Yes, style is important and IMO fencers are cooler than axe wielding barbarians, but it's something to think about - any thoughts on how this could be balanced, or is that not a priority for you?

Quote from: JephThe defender may now take an action to Soak Damage. If they do, they make a relevant roll. Subtract the number of Successes rolled from the attack's Damage Rating. The defender takes this many Wounds. Characters that don't wear armor can only soak damage that comes from impacts, such as a punch or fall.  

Maybe Armor gets rated as a trait (or as a bonus to any kind of toughness/resistance trait)?

Quote from: JephNext comes the attack. Byron's Swordsman Trait at four applies, and Alex elects to spend just two points of Spin. The thief attempts to catch the blade with the hilt of his knife, using his Kife Fighting at three, and spending three Spin. Alex then Bolsters, adding another two dice to the attack, and rolling one, two, five, five, six: two successes, and a Spin now at three. The thief rolls one, two, four, four: two Successes, and a curret Spin of three. Because Byron has a higher relevant Trait, his attack hits.  It deals three points of damage: two for successes, and one for the weapon used (a rapier). The thief chooses not to Soak damage.

Is there no consideration for the defensive successes the thief managed? I just want to clarify that if I get 5 successes to attack you and you get 2 defensive successes, I hit with a margin of 5, not a matgin of (5-2=) 3. It just seems more intuative the other way.

Oh, and incidentally, you said earlier than a rapier has a damage rating of +2 - it's nice to be consistant in your examples :-)

Quote from: JephNote that characters may never have more than five Traits at any one time. Also, note that even if a character's Traits increase, their Spin Modifier remains the same.

Hmm.. two points here. Firstly, how does a character ever increase his spin modifier? If it always stays the same, characters who spent more points at the start are permanently disadvantaged against other characters, seems a little harsh perhaps. Perhaps the spin modifier could be treated like a trait, to be increased with experience?

Also, I'm a little confused as to why you would cap the number of traits permanently at 5. This is clearly a change from version 1, where The Man in Black had eight. It means that characters can only ever advance to a certain point - eventually they'll have 5 traits at 5 points each, and all they can do is redistribute the points around into 5 new traits (also all at 5 points each). This not only limits characters, but NPC's also.

Two issues there AFAIC - one that characters can only have 5 traits, and two that because of that limit they'll tend to be exceptionally good at a few things (well, 5) and suck at everything else.

You could fix both issues at the same time if you opened up the number of traits, but made progressive values cost more. Maybe buying a trait at 1 costs a point, but after that the costs is the current trait level (so 1-2 costs 1 point, 2-3 costs 2 points, 3-4 costs 3 points and 4-5 costs 4 points), something like that anyway. This will tend to lead PC's into being fairly good in a wider range of skills rather than experts in a very narrow range.

This all might be totally contrary to where you're going, of course - I'm not trying to take over your game, just offer suggestions where I see things, YMMV and feel fre to tell me to bog off.

Final nitpick (just because I'm pedantic): You spell "Byron" as "Biron" once or twice, and the word is "thief", not "theif".

Brian.

Combat Structure: When everyone yells at the same time, I tend to ask the one who said nothing, "Andrew, what does your character do?". This usually works pretty well. Maybe I'll include, "Characters may not state actions other than reactions until all other characters have had a chance to act." Or something similar but much less confusing. :-)

Bolstering: Bolstering is a way for high-Trait or high-Pool characters to compound their advantage against low-Trait and low-Pool ones. I.E., both sides must effectively spend one point of Spin, and the higher rated character either has more to waste, or gets it back more reliably. Therefore, a character with Swordsman five could Bolster more often and with less risk than one with Swordsman three (they'd get the extra Spin back faster).

Weapons: Why wouldn't a character use an axe? Same reason people didn't all use them IRL: you can't defend with them. So, in game, I'd let a character parry at full Trait with a sword, but maybe use default trait of one or trait minus two or something with an axe.

Armor: Light armor will just let you soak damage from edged weapons. Maybe heavy armor will give you a +1 or +2 automatic points of soak, and maybe force +1 spin spent on physical actions.

Theif vs. Byron: Nope, you just use the # of successes rolled. Subtracting the defender's successes adds another step, and I want combat to be pretty fast-paced. I just corrected the +1/+2 thing--and the fact that he was using a sabre, not a rapier. :-)

Advancement: Uncapping the number of Traits allowed and letting the Spin Mod be advanced are good ideas--the decisions to keep them steady were pretty arbitrary and unfounded. However, I have no problem with best-in-the-world characters, as there's plenty of that in the source material. Note that even a character with two traits doesn't 'suck at everything else,' as long as the player can come up with creative ways to use their traits.

Final Nitpick: Yeah, yeah, yeah. :D

Oh yeah, one more thing I meant to ask - is there any advantage to having more than one trait that can be used in a situation? Lets say I have "master swordsman" at 4 but also "reflexes like greased lightning" at 3, and I'm trying to use my sword to knock aside a dagger that's being thrown at me. Any advantage to having both or do I just use 4?

Possibility: Maybe I get to use the better trait but because I have a secondary trait that also applies I get a bonus point of spin to be used for that roll only (i.e. one extra die)?

Brian.

That's the same problem with systems like FUDGE, where the attributes and skills don't effect each other. I like your suggestion, but then I get this.

Andrew: "Okay, so I have master swordsman at four, hyper reflexes at two, battle frenzy at two, and voices in head urging me to kill white males at two. So I gain +3 spin when I attack the thug, right?"
Me: *twitch* *twitch*

In the example you gave, the reflexes like greased lightning trait would probably come into play when defending against larger, heavier weapons that can't be parried by a sword (like really big rocks).

On the subject of weapon bulk etc.--I'll probably insert a paragraph that goes something like this: "GMs should not let characters block attacks with weapons such as axes or warhammers. In addition, they should ask about actions from characters with more agility related traits, and those who use lighter weapons. For instance, a character that uses two daggers and has the Trait 'quicker than the eye' at three might be asked for actions three times to every one time that the GM enquires after the character who wields a sledgehammer."

One thing you might want to consider is to borrow Hero Wars Augment Rules.  You get 1 trait just as you've described.  But if you have a bunch of affiliated traits you can roll 1 die against each of those, and if it comes up successful you get a free "spin die" to add into the main roll.  It works pretty well in HW and allows all the variety of possible bizarrely applicable traits to be included.

I considered that, but it means rolling more dice, which I don't want.

Ooh! How bout this: I've found, in little me-vs.-myself battles, that the rule of "If two characters roll the same number of successes, then the one with the higher relevant Trait wins" comes into play quite often. Maybe, if you have multiple relevant traits, you total them together when comparing them in this way? This makes sense, as the times when you'd most need those related Traits is when you're equally matched in your primary area, and you just need that teensy little edge. Ideas?

Yeah, that's not bad, although I still prefer my suggestion :-) (I would limit it to a maximum of +1 spin per roll regardless of how many additional "related" traits the character possesses. But I would probably ALSO use your suggestion of adding them together in the case of a tie.)

My regular game is on hiatus for a while, so I think I'll give the Spin system a, err, spin next weekend. I'll let you know how it goes.

Brian.

Quote from: Brian Leybourne
My regular game is on hiatus for a while, so I think I'll give the Spin system a, err, spin next weekend. I'll let you know how it goes.

Brian.

Thanks! I myself won't be able to *really* playtest it, aside from the odd skirmish, until next weekend, as this weekend's all locked up in Star Wars Feng Shui.

Not that I have a problem with SWFS . . .

I was just thinking about how to do poisons and stuff. Then it hit me: just make the poison an NPC, with a few special rules! An example of a dragon and his poison is shown below:

Gryshnakmyuscrulmak, Great Green Dragon: Cunningly Evil 3, Fearsome Natural Weapons 5, Thick Armor Scales 5, Great Dragon's Wings 2. Spin Modifier 2, Spin Pool 10. Gryshnakmyuscrulmak's scales allow him to soak any type of damage, and provide him with 2 points of automatic damage soak. When he successfully bites his prey, he injects a deadly paralyzing poison.

Gryshnakmyuscrulmak's Poison: Horribly Painful 5, Slowly Paralyzes Those Unfortunate Enough To Encounter It 3. Spin Modifier 3, Spin Pool 5. This poison is excrutiatingly painful. Whenever the victum attempts to take a physical action, they must succeed at an opposed roll vs. Horribly Painful. If they fail, they cannot attempt the action, and collaps in pain. In addition, every hour Slowly Paralyzes . . . kicks in, forcing an opposed roll. If the poison wins, the victum must pay +1 spin every time they attmpt a physical action. This extra spin cost is cumulative with wound penalties, and with it's self. When it has reached +5 spin, the victum is completely immobile.

You can also use this method to describe a fire: It's Trait Value would determine it's intensity, and it's Spin Modifier how long it would last. In fact, you could describe almost anything in this way. Comments?

Yeah, good stuff - I like the idea that just about anything gets statted as an NPC, keeps the system simple. From your poison, it seems obvious to extrapolate further and get things like:

Arrow trap: Difficult to spot: 3; Shoots an arrow at target 3; Tricky to reload properly 4; Spin Modifier 2, Spin Pool 2. (or whatever, you get the idea).

On point however: NPC's and creatures I can see using spin pool to improve their rolls, because that represents a form of extra effort I guess. I don't like the idea of a poison or a trap using spin dice though as that seems (to me) to denote intelligence or at least animal cunning that they don't have.

Perhaps for items etc that don't have any natural cunning or intelligence of their own, they automatically use their spin modifier in spin dice each roll until/unless they run out of spin dice. Thus, Gryshnakmyuscrulmak's Poison always uses 3 spin dice as long as it has them, and the arrow trap above would use both of it's spin pool dice for its (one) shot, and these would be refreshed automatically when it was reloaded. What do you think?

I didn't manage to get tgether with my group this weekend, but will definately test the system next Sunday, and I'll I get back to you early the following week with the players'comments and how the system ran.

Brian.

I was thinking that non-intelligent stuff would automatically spend as much Spin as they can, and never do any fancy stuff like Bolster. If you just had inanimate objects always get their Spin Modifier in Spin each turn, then you wouldn't get that naturally dissipating effect.

A bit on practicality . . . do you think the players will be able to keep track of their spin pools easily? You could probably just have a d12 or d20 for each player, and have them keep the die at their current spin pool, and record their current pool at the end of each session. Or maybe a spin tracker board, like the shot trackers in Feng Shui?

Also, this brings up a question: should players be allowed to see eachothers', and NPCs', Spin Pools, without doing something like scrying? Maybe that would be a roll with a Difficulty of the target's Spin Modifier, or something? Or just let it be a piece of universal metagame knowledge, maybe?

Quote from: JephI was thinking that non-intelligent stuff would automatically spend as much Spin as they can, and never do any fancy stuff like Bolster. If you just had inanimate objects always get their Spin Modifier in Spin each turn, then you wouldn't get that naturally dissipating effect.

No, you misunderstood me. I meant that they still have a limited Spin Pool but instead of the GM deciding how many spin pool dice to use each round, he should always spend the spin modifier in dice (which is the only thing a spin modifier is useful for for an inanimate object anyway). So for your poison, it has a Spin Mod of 3 and a Spin Pool of 5. The firsr\t round it always uses 3. The next round it only has 2 left, plus whatever extra ones it earned the previous round, so it uses 3 if it can (or less if it has to). On subsequent rounds it probably doesn't have very many dice, so it uses whatever t has (up to three) and so on.

For one-shot thinhgs like my arrow trap, it uses all it's spin dice the first (and only) shot because the spin mod is the same as the spoin pool.

Not that different from what you're proposing really, except that instead of making the object use as many dice as possible, you use the aspin mod as a limiter on how many spin dice it uses, which is another way of factoring in stronger/weaker poisons, or fires, or traps, or whatever.

Quote from: JephA bit on practicality . . . do you think the players will be able to keep track of their spin pools easily? You could probably just have a d12 or d20 for each player, and have them keep the die at their current spin pool, and record their current pool at the end of each session. Or maybe a spin tracker board, like the shot trackers in Feng Shui?

You're worrying about minutae here. Some players will write it down, others will track it with a die, etc. Actually, I think the best way is (if everyone has lots of D6's) to just keep your actual pool in D^'s in front of you, take some away to roll them , add others as you earn them, and so on.

Quote from: JephAlso, this brings up a question: should players be allowed to see eachothers', and NPCs', Spin Pools, without doing something like scrying? Maybe that would be a roll with a Difficulty of the target's Spin Modifier, or something? Or just let it be a piece of universal metagame knowledge, maybe?

Nah, that's a metagame thing. I don't care if players can see each others spin pool totals, but I wouldn't tell them how many an NPC has, or even how many an NPC is spending on any particular roll.

Brian.

About how many dice inanimate objects spend: Ahh. I get it now. :-) Hmm . . . since a poison would never get a chance to regenerate it's Spin, I guess that's a pretty good use for the SM.

On to a new subject . . . supernormal abilities. You know, magic, psi, and stuff. I'm currently writing a setting that I'm going to use for this game, a renaissance era on an island world with a bit of discreet magic thrown in, and am up to the stage where I'd be making spell lists If this was for DnD. I thought, perhaps I'd just have a bunch of possibilitues for magic. For example:

"When an area is witness to great power or a turning point in history, a 'genus loci' manifests in the area; a spirit that can be sensed by many Magi. The Difficulty to sense an event depends on two things: how well it is remembered by the common man, and the scale of the occurance. For example, a great clash between hundreds of thousands that is written into half the world's history books might be difficulty one. A powerful mage sinking an island kingdom into the sea, never to be heard of again might be three. Time has little effect on genus loci, as it takes millenia for such a spirit to fade."

I'd most likely come up with a large number of possibilities, then choose which ones are available to PC magi based on their chosen trait. If they chose Sensative to Magical Impressions, they may have a bit of empathy, be able to tell if a place is magical, be able to sense strong magical fields in the present, past, and future. If they said they were a telepath, they would be able to read emotions and minds, send mental images and phrases, create illusions, and tear the minds of others to shreds, if they were in the mood for that sort of thing.

Poison et al
Sounds good. I was assuming that even inanimate objects would regenerate spin with successes, you seem to be suggesting that they can't?

Magic
Hmm.. I guess. I'm not really sure I see this system as being very condusive to magic though.. since characters have a (very) limited number of traits, and they have to be specific, taking a trait that covers magic is (by necessity) going to be more broad than Traits are usually allowed to be (such as your Telepath example), and then the character has possibly too much they can do with the one trait (compared with the limits on non-magical traits).

I'm not explaining myself very well. Hmm. I'll have to think more carefully and get back to you.

Brian.

Poison et al: By not recover spin, I meant that they'd never get a chance to roll against their Spin Modifier to get some back between scenes. They still gain Spin from successes normally. :)

Magic etc.: The system has a few elements that make it good for magic. Eg., Spin is a natural limiter, making manna or spells per day and statistics of that ilk unneccesary, and a Trait would build a natural 'spell list' without all the bookeeping work involved.

But I do see your point--compare Telepathy to Vizzini's Read People Like A Book trait. Which would you rather have? Hmm . . . alternative ideas? Maybe, if a character wanted magic/psi/whathaveyou, they'd need to invest in more specific uses? Like 'able to sense other's emotions' and similar Traits . . . Or maybe They'd have to pay an extra point of Spin when using magical abilities? But that's throwing in more rules, and I want to keep this system pretty rules-lite. . .

Perhaps there could be certain penalties involved with magic, allowing the Traits to be slightly wider and more useful, but at a cost. For instance, Magi might be succeptable to the influences of Demons or the Dark Side's equivalent, or their power might act as a beacon, allerting others to their presence. But, then again, that's a more world specific thing.

Comments?

Poison et al :-)
Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking. except - although they don't get a roll to recover spin, I would assume that they naturally "have" it as needed. I.E. As soon as you reset the arrow trap, it has 2 spin dice again for the next time it shoots. Likewise the poison would get it's 5 spin dice each time the dragon bit you... in other words each application of the poison starts off with the 5 dice and uses them as per it's Spin Mod. If you get bit twice, each one has it's own spin pool etc. Yeah, sounding good.

Magic
I agree that adding more complex rules are to be avoided (it's a nice rules light narritivist-promoting system at the moment).

On the other hand, you already have a system you could extend to magic - wounds. Once you take 2 wounds, every action requires a spin die to initiate, once you have 4 every action requires two, 5 means knocked out and 6 or more is dead, IIRC.

So, casting spells automatically gives you a wound (call it fatigue, but it stacks with wounds). This naturally limits mages to only being able to cast a few spells before needing rest, which is itself a limit on magic (and powerful spells may give you 2 or even 3 wounds). And even better - we're utilising an existing rule, not adding a new one.

You could even add a tiny little rule saying that spending spin dice can cancel out fatigue, so if I choose to toss a spin die (I don't get to roll it, I'm just losing it) I don't take fatique/wounds from the spell (unless it's one that gives me more than 1 point of fatigue in which case I have to drop more spin dice). This way we're only slightly modifying an existing rule, instead of adding a new one, but it has much the same effect as your original proposition :-)

The problem is still how do we define spells/magic. Your example of telepathy versus Read people like a book is spot on, although of course reading people like a book doesn't give you fatigue/wounds. Realistically, you have to specify what can and can't be done pretty clearly in the rules, probably with examples of magical traits and what their limits are.

Thoughts?

Brian.

Poison, Fire, and Co.: It's best if you think of the reset arrow trap, or the poison from the dragon's second bight, as different NPCs. Then you don't have to worry about indiscrepencies (sp?) in the rules, no matter how inconsequential. :)

Magic, Etc.: Hmmm . . . I like the idea of taking wounds for magic. However, the system already deliniates between fatigue and normal damage: fatigue can be soaked without armor. So, if a character wants to cast a spell without collapsing from exhaustion, they spend Spin to enhance their damage soak roll. I like it!

You said that actions with magic should be clearly deliniated in the rules . . . I'm not sure I agree with this. Anything that can be done with magic can, most likely, be done without it. I'm thinking maybe I'll start writing action lists, that could really be performed with any relative Trait. For example, here's the difficulty to jump a certain distance, use whatever Trait you think is best for jumping. Thoughts?

Quote from: JephMagic, Etc.: Hmmm . . . I like the idea of taking wounds for magic. However, the system already deliniates between fatigue and normal damage: fatigue can be soaked without armor. So, if a character wants to cast a spell without collapsing from exhaustion, they spend Spin to enhance their damage soak roll. I like it!

That's sounding fantastic, except that I can see mages taking "constitution like an ox" every time so that they'll be able to easily soak fatigue. I guess it's up to you as to whether that's a problem or not (it's another trait they're not taking, of course) but I would be inclined to say that magical fatigue cannot be associated with a trait and always soaks at trait level 1. This way, you can say that any and all spells give 1 fatigue, becauase there's only a 1/6 chance per die of soaking it. A mage can spend 2 spin dice to have a 50/50 chance, that sounds about right to me.

Quote from: JephYou said that actions with magic should be clearly deliniated in the rules . . . I'm not sure I agree with this. Anything that can be done with magic can, most likely, be done without it. I'm thinking maybe I'll start writing action lists, that could really be performed with any relative Trait. For example, here's the difficulty to jump a certain distance, use whatever Trait you think is best for jumping. Thoughts?

Hmm.. you sarted off saying that you wanted the system to be pretty simple and rules-light, that (IMO) flys in the face of action lists. I would leave the number of sucesses to be determined by the GM, and just keep the table you already have (1 success = standard roll, 2 = tricky, 3 = hard, etc).

Have you come to any decvisions as to weapons and their stats? I still think that the most damaging weapons should have some extra penalty (or a bonus for the least damaging, which amounts to the same thing), but IYG. Just interested if you had had a think about it.

Brian.

Magic: I'm beginning to see a few inherant flaws in magic as written:

1) There's a 1 in 6 chance that casting spells will cost less spin then normal actions, if an un-boosted Soak roll succeeds.
2) It adds an extra roll to some actions.
3) Players would argue that they can use their Magic trait (say, Telepathy) to soak damage from casting, and as a GM, I'd probably agree with them.

The fix: Whenever a character casts a spell, and rolls more failures then successes, they take the difference in damage. This addresses all three above problems: there's no chance that they'd gain extra Spin from it, it doesn't add an extra roll, and it already takes the character's core magic Trait into account. It also discouraged characters just tossing their whole pool onto a spell, and makes higher Difficutly spells inherantly more damaging (you need to spend more Spin, so theres a greater chance for more failures). Opinions?

Action Lists: You're right. If there are no action lists, then GMs can tweak Difficulties according to the game. I mean, any superhero can jump ten feet no prob, but can joe average to that?

Weapons: In general, larger weapons can't be used to parry or block. In addition, characters with smaller weaopns will be given the first strike by the GM, and allowed to 'blend' some actions. For instance, John is carrying a pole axe. He says, "My guy lobs off Jim's head, then slices off Josh's arm!" The GM would then say, "One action at a time, give Josh a chance to respond before you move on to him." If John were using, say, a dagger, the GM would let it fly, since a dagger-wielding characte could accomplish such a task in one fluid motion (assuming that they can behead people with a knife with utmost speed, but hey, he can try), where as an axe requires yanking the blade out of the corpse, getting ready to swing, etc.

Quote from: JephMagic: I'm beginning to see a few inherant flaws in magic as written:

1) There's a 1 in 6 chance that casting spells will cost less spin then normal actions, if an un-boosted Soak roll succeeds.
2) It adds an extra roll to some actions.
3) Players would argue that they can use their Magic trait (say, Telepathy) to soak damage from casting, and as a GM, I'd probably agree with them.

The fix: Whenever a character casts a spell, and rolls more failures then successes, they take the difference in damage. This addresses all three above problems: there's no chance that they'd gain extra Spin from it, it doesn't add an extra roll, and it already takes the character's core magic Trait into account. It also discouraged characters just tossing their whole pool onto a spell, and makes higher Difficutly spells inherantly more damaging (you need to spend more Spin, so theres a greater chance for more failures). Opinions?

Hmm, yeah, that's a good solution. So if I cast a spell with 5 dice, difficulty 2, and get 1,2,3,4,5, I have more failures than successes and so I take 1 point of damage, right? Is there an extra whammy if the spell fails? Say in the situation above the difficulty was 3. I rolled two "sucesses" but the spell actually failed because I needed 3. What happens? Still 3 damage? Or is there a further penalty for failing?

What about if I rolled 3 dice and got 2 sucesses, but the difficulty was 3. I didn't get more failures than successes (theoretically no damage), but the spell failed anyway. What happens? Do I take damage?

Quote from: JephWeapons: In general, larger weapons can't be used to parry or block. In addition, characters with smaller weaopns will be given the first strike by the GM, and allowed to 'blend' some actions. For instance, John is carrying a pole axe. He says, "My guy lobs off Jim's head, then slices off Josh's arm!" The GM would then say, "One action at a time, give Josh a chance to respond before you move on to him." If John were using, say, a dagger, the GM would let it fly, since a dagger-wielding characte could accomplish such a task in one fluid motion (assuming that they can behead people with a knife with utmost speed, but hey, he can try), where as an axe requires yanking the blade out of the corpse, getting ready to swing, etc.

I must admit that I'm still a bit iffy on the whole "take initiative as it comes" idea, especially since you said that things like soaking use an action. There seems to me to be a high chance that noisy/pushy players will get more actions per round than quieter players.

How about this: All characters get one action per round, but can spend spin dice to gain extra actions on a one-for one basis. How characters declare can still be a bit more haphazard (as you seem to prefer it), those who are more "gung-ho" will tend to get more attacks, and the others will tend to spend their actions on defenses. Oh, and I would say that the soak roll doesn't require an action. What do you think?

Brian.

Yeah, I guess I need some sort of turn structure. Suggested phrasing: "Reactions (such as parrying an attack or soaking damage) never take a spin die to perform, and neither does a character's first action in a round. However, each action past the first requires the expenditure of one point of spin to perform."

Quote from: Brian LeybourneSo if I cast a spell with 5 dice, difficulty 2, and get 1,2,3,4,5, I have more failures than successes and so I take 1 point of damage, right?

In that sentance, did you mean Trait 2? If so, correct. I don't think that failing to cast a spell should have any additional penalties; just wasting the spin and possibly taking some damage should be enough of a deterrant to keep casters under control. However, interesting but ineffectual side effects can always be fun.

I think that, as an option, characters can take Magic traits that are as narrow as normal ones. For instance, instead of Telepathy, a character might have a Trait of "Able to sense styrong emotions in those nearby". If a player does this, they don't risk taking damage from using magic.

Opinions?

Quote from: JephYeah, I guess I need some sort of turn structure. Suggested phrasing: "Reactions (such as parrying an attack or soaking damage) never take a spin die to perform, and neither does a character's first action in a round. However, each action past the first requires the expenditure of one point of spin to perform."

Actually, I would still require a spin die to do a parry, myself. Otherwise there's a lot less incentive to spend the spin dice to have extra attacks. After all, your first action is free, so you still get at least one free parry. Free parries also mean that ganging up on someone is less effective as he gets to parry all attackers for free. Soak rolls I agree should always be free though.

How about this: Characters must pay one spin die to perform extra actions in a round, except their first action for the round, which is always free, and one parry which is similarly free. That way, you can have an attack and a parry, or two parries without spending spin dice, but after that you have to. What do you think?

Quote from: JephI don't think that failing to cast a spell should have any additional penalties; just wasting the spin and possibly taking some damage should be enough of a deterrant to keep casters under control. However, interesting but ineffectual side effects can always be fun.

I think that, as an option, characters can take Magic traits that are as narrow as normal ones. For instance, instead of Telepathy, a character might have a Trait of "Able to sense styrong emotions in those nearby". If a player does this, they don't risk taking damage from using magic.

The main problem I can see with that is that it comes down to your definition of what's broad and what's narrow. I think it's probably better to say that all magic is draining (thus the damage) but that magical traits are broader OR magic is never draining but the traits have to be as narrow as other traits. There are advantages and disadvantages to both of course, but trying to run the middle ground is risking confusion.

Brian.

Combat: I'm thinking I liked it better turnless. When you start introducing turns, that begins to drain the Mighty Powers of Obviousness. If you have turns, you start losing the ability to let the guy with the dagger take more actions. You start to get players complain when you say they can't parry attacks from both the guy in front of them and behind them with their rapier. I don't know, maybe it's just a mindset that more strict combat rules enforce. But I liked it better freeform: it gives more "this is the way it works" power to the GM, and keeps up the fluid feel.

Magic: It does strongly depend on the GMs perception of 'broad' and 'narrow'. Perhaps Broad could be defined as anything that might be a school of magic: Flame Savantism, Weather Control, Shadow Manipulation. Narrow might be anything that's a specific spell: Quench Flames, Summon Fog, Blend Into Darkness. Would that help?

Jeff,

Well, to each their own I guess :-) I'll tell you what, I'll try combat both ways and see how they both work. Of course it's your game and I'm not trying to tell you how it should be, I'm just not one who likes things too freeform :-) I'll let you know how it goes.

Magic? Yeah, that sounds fine. Although to be honest I'm inclined to just tell my players that if they want magic they should define their magical skills fairly narrowly, and then I'll just use the normal trait rules with no fatigue etc. That's easier than trying to explain to them how broad or narrow something has to be before it picks up a new set of rules - I like the rules-lite aspect of the system so I want to see how that plays without introducing a different ruleset that is only based on my fiat anyway. Again, I'll see how it goes.

One of my players just cancelled (again) for this Sunday, so we may not get to play the Spin System this week after all (two others are overseas at the moment, and that will just leave it as me and 2 players, which isn't really enough IMO). Still, I may give it a try with the three of us anyway, instead of having to wait yet another week.

Brian.

Should having players start at a higher 'level' (i.e., more trait points to assign) be an option? Personally, I'm thinking that a higher powered game would just have slightly broader Traits and slightly lower Difficulties. Opinions?

I like the idea of changing the starting points, rather than actually changing the core rules for a higher powered game. I would keep the rules the same (trait narrowness, difficulty scale, wounds scale, etc) and assign more points. 10 = normal game, 15 = high powered, 20 = really experienced characters. Something like that.

Brian.

Remember, 15 trait points allows a character with 3 Traits at 5, which is a bit over the top for even high-powered games. maybe the incriment should be a bit smaller--3 or 4 points, perhaps?

The rules clause:

"If the GM wishes, they may allow characters to spend a smaller or larger number of points on Traits, in accordance with the setting being used, and the 'feel' of the game that is going to be run. However, it is not reccomended that the GM ever allow characters to spend more then twenty (?) points on Traits.

In all cases, a character's Spin Modifier is equal to the number of unspent points, plus one. Regardless of how many Trait points are left unspent, a character's Spin Modifier may never excede five."

. . . which brings up the question of traits that do excede five. Should this be allowed? My inclination is to say no. Any thoughts on the matter?

I would probably not let players ever start with more than one trait at 5, after all they have to have something to work towards :-) That's just personal view though, not something that should necessarily be in the rules (although, if you like it...). This solves the problem of more starting points, but you could certainly limit the point upgrades to 3 or 4 if you like.

As for traits above 5... most certainly not. In fact, I'm a little puzzled as to why you even suggest it, since a trait of 6 means automatic success with every die, unless I missed something...?

Brian.

I was thinking that if I did include them (which I most likely won't) it would have some other effect. For instance, a each point of trait above five increases the maximum number of dice that Spin can add to a roll by one, or something. But it doesn't really matter, since I won't put it in the rules anyway.

I'll proabaly add a warning about multiple traits at 5, but not make the limit to one such trait mandatory.

Must be just about time to write up V3 of the rules then...? :-)

Brian.

Sure thing. I'll have them up later tonight or tomorrow evening . . .

Actual Play report Here (http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=5549).

Brian.

Great! Maybe after a bit of discussion I can finally get around to v1.3! :D

Hi there, this is Palaskar. Lemme just weigh in with a couple of opinions.

Keep the turnless combat. It's actually more flexible and elegant than turn-based combat, since you can apply all sorts of off-the-cuff rulings, without having to resort to the crunchiness of a half-dozen rules on weapon speed and what not.

Just be sure to spell out in plain English the strengths and weakness of each weapon. That way you have the 'realism' of a rules-heavy game, without the actual rules.

Also, keep the variable starting points rule. I for one, love being able to play an experience character instead of a rank newbie -- though of course, I thoink that's not a problem anyway with this system, since you can start with a trait of 05. You might want to have a prioritized list of point values (say, 5/4/4/2/2 or whatever) rather than saying, "You start with X number of points." YMMV.

Michael,

Nice to see someone else commenting in this thread, it's been Jeff and I for a while now :-)

Check out the Actual Play thread on the Spin system (a link is a couple of messages above, by me) where we also discuss some rules changes.

Brian.

Okay, major highlights of the new version:
• The system is now d10 based. Traits default to 2, and max out at seven. A roll of 0 (or 10 on some dice) counts as two successes.
• The damage track has shifted to a 10-points cale, instead of 6-point. Pnealties from damage and heavy armor now come in the form of reduced Traits, not extra Spin costs.
• Starting characters have 12 points with which to purchase Traits, and do not have to purchase the assumed points. Ex, a Trait at three costs one point, a Trait at four costs two points, etc.
• A section on Supernatural Powers has been added, covering magic, psionics, and superpowers.
• A clause on rewarding Bonus Dice for being cool has been added.

Spin System Version 1.3

One: Characters

   The first step of character creation is to write a short (about fifty words) paragraph describing your character. This is not a term paper, nor is it a single sentence. The paragraph should describe what your character is good at, their passions and drives, family, friends, background, and anything else.

   After you have written this paragraph, pick two to five Traits from the information that you gave. Traits can be almost anything, from Strong to Swordsmen to Loves Jolene. Traits should be narrow and well defined. For instance, Weapons is too broad, as is Passionate. What type of weapons does your character use? Are they an Archer? How are they passionate? Do they love deeply, or have strong fits of anger?

   Not all of your character's Traits have to be positive qualities. In fact, none of them do. For instance, you may choose Cowardice to be one of their Traits. This would aid your character in fleeing from danger, and getting the other guy to go see if the dragon's really 'just sleeping'.

   A Trait that has had no points assigned to it has a rating of two. You have twelve points with which to enhance your chosen Traits, although no Trait may have a value greater than seven. If you wish, you may set aside up to five Trait points that go into your Spin Modifier, instead of a normal Trait.

   Now that you know your Traits, you can figure your Spin Modifier. Your Spin Modifier is equal to two, plus any points that you set aside for this purpose. At the beginning of a session, your Spin Pool is equal to double your Spin Modifier, plus one.

   Example: Alex is creating a new character, Biran. He writes: 'Biran's father was murdered in cold blood by a prince, and Biran has dedicated his life to tracking the man down. He has become a master of the blade in order to dispatch the man, and uses his natural charm and cunning to advance his goal.' From this, Alex distills the traits Swordsman at six, Seeking Revenge for Father at five, and Manipulative at three. He has spent nine of his Trait points, so Biran's Spin Modifier is three, and his Spin Pool is seven.

Two: System

   Whenever a character attempts to do something difficult, they will make a Roll. When a character makes a Roll, they roll a ten-sided die. They may spend Spin to roll up to four extra dice. Spent spin is immediately subtracted from a character's Spin pool.

   Before they roll, a character may pick a relevant Trait. This may be any Trait that they possess, as long as they can logically relate it to the task at hand. If they can't find a relevant Trait, their Trait value is treated as one.
   When a character makes a Roll, the GM must set a Difficulty for the Roll. This Difficulty should be one for a moderately hard task, two for difficult tasks, three for very difficult tasks, and four for a task that borders on the impossible.

   If the task is being actively resisted by another character, the GM does not set a Difficulty. Instead, both players roll, and the one that gets the most Successes wins. If both characters roll the same number of Successes, the one with the higher relevant Trait value wins. If both characters have the same Trait value, then the roll is a tie. When a character makes an opposed roll, and has multiple relevant Traits, only the highest of these Traits applies. However, in the case of a tie, combine all relevant Traits to determine the victor.

If the player describes their character's action particularly well, the GM may choose to reward them with one or two Bonus Dice. For each Bonus Die awarded, the player may add one die of a different color to their die pool. These Bonus Dice can count as successes, but they can never replenish a character's Spin Pool. Note that Bonus Dice do not count against a roll's 5-die maximum.

   Every die that comes up equal to or under the character's relevant Trait value is treated as a Success. Each die that comes up with a zero counts as two successes. If the player rolls at least as many Successes as the task's Difficulty, the y are successful.

   Every time a character rolls one or more Successes, their Spin rating increases by the number of Successes rolled.

   Example: The thief quietly snuck up to Biron, eyes fixed upon the man's bulging money pouch. A quick slash, and then he'd disappear across the moonlit rooftops and into the night.

   The Thief has a Pick Pocket Trait of six, and a Spin Pool of five. He spends three of his Spin Pool, rolling six, four, eight, seven: two successes, and a current Spin Pool of four. The GM asks Alex to make a roll for Biron involving perception. Biron has no relevant Trait, but Alex doesn't want to be duped, so spends two points of Spin. He rolls zero, four, five: two successes and a Spin Pool remaining at seven. Because the thief has a higher Trait, he succeeds at the task, but the GM rules that Biron is at least aware of the rogue.

   The thief's hand darted in, the dagger twirled deftly, and the pouch fell into his hand. Sensing a slight tug, Biron spun around, but too late: a shadowy figure leapt up onto a barrel, then up a fence, and was now bounding away over the city's shingled peaks. Biron whipped out his sword, roared, and gave chase.

   Biron again has no relative Trait, but wants to get his money back, because he earned it, damn it! He spends four points of Spin, rolling one, two, four, five, five: two Successes, and a current Spin Pool of five. The thief is again ready for this sort of thing, with a Quick Getaway Trait of four. He spends three points of Spin, rolling three, zero, five, nine: three Successes, a current Spin Pool of four, and a victory.

   The thief nimbly leapt over a rooftop, and was gone. Biron stopped, breathing hard, and began casting about in the shadows. There! More distant, but still there. The chase goes on . . .

Three: Combat

   When characters are engaged in combat, time is not broken down into rounds, as it is in many other Role Playing Games. Instead, characters simply declare an action, state what Trait they are using and give a justification if necessary, and assign a number of Spin to the roll. After they have done this, but before they have rolled any dice, all other characters have a chance to react. They, too, will follow the above process. Then, players either roll appropriate dice, or one or more of them Bolsters their roll.

   When a player decides to Bolster one of their characters' rolls, they must immediately pay 1 point of Spin. After they have done this, they may add extra dice to the roll on a one-for-one basis, as long as the total number or dice rolled does not exceed five. Bolstering can represent extra effort, a feint, a shift of the wind, or anything else. Each player may only Bolster once per roll, but you may Bolster in reaction to the Bolstering of another. After all Bolstering is done, the roll is made.

   Characters with higher traits relating to speed and agility, as well as those that use more light, maneuverable weapons, should be allowed to declare their action more often than slower characters.

   Striking another character in combat normally has a Difficulty of one. However, if the target declares that they are Dodging your attack (they must declare that they are dodging before your attack is rolled), the attack is instead an Opposed Roll.

   When a character is actually hit in combat, the attacker figure's the attack's Damage Rating, which is equal to the number of successes rolled in the attack, minus the number of successes that the defender rolled, plus the Damage Modifier of the weapon used. Typical Damage Modifiers are zero for an unarmed attack or knife, one for a short sword, two for a rapier or pistol, and three for a large axe or rifle.

   The defender may now Soak Damage. If they do, they make a relevant roll. Subtract the number of Successes rolled from the attack's Damage Rating. The defender takes this many Wounds. Characters that don't wear armor can only soak damage that comes from impacts, such as a punch or fall. If a character wears very heavy armor, they automatically soak one or two extra points of damage from all attacks, but are treated as if their Traits relating to agility and full-body movement were one or two points lower than they actually are, respectively.

   If a character has at least four Wounds, their Traits relating to physical actions are treated as if they were one point lower than they actually are. When a character has ammassed seven Wounds, their physical Traits are now penalized two points. A character that has sustained nine Wounds is unconcious. If a character takes any more Wounds, they may die. Note that penalties due to Wounds stack with any penalties due to heavy armor.

   Example: As he ran, the thief flipped his knife, so that he held the blade between his two fingers. He wanted to end this chase, end it now: that man looked dangerous. He cocked the blade back, let fly.

   The thief has a Knife Fighting Trait at five, and spends his entire remaining Spin Pool (four points). Alex says that Biron attempts to deftly knock the dagger out of the air with his saber, using his Swordsman skill at six, and also spending four points of his Spin Pool. The thief rolls one, two, two, six, six: three successes, and a current Spin of three. Alex rolls zero, three, six, seven, seven: four successes, a current Spin of five, and a successful maneuver.

   Biron twirls his sword, flicking it like a snake, and the dagger ceases it's flight, clattering to the roof, then sliding off to the street below. The thief pulls another knife as Biron leaps over the rooftops to close and attack.

   The GM rules that this is actually two actions for Biron: one to close, one to attack. Alex spends four points of Spin to catch the thief, using the default Trait of two. The thief, knowing that he'll be caught eventually, spends no Spin points, and uses his Quick Getaway of four. Biron rolls one, one, five, five, six: two successes, and a Spin Pool of three. The thief rolls an eight: no successes, and his Spin remains at four. Biron closes.

   Next comes the attack. Biron's Swordsman Trait at six applies, and Alex elects to spend his entire Spin Pool of three. The thief attempts to catch the blade with the handgaurd of his knife, using his Knife Fighting at five, and also spending three Spin. Alex rolls  one, two, five, five, six: four successes, and a Spin now at four. The thief rolls three, three, five, nine: two Successes, and a curent Spin of three. Biron's attack hits.  It deals four points of damage: four for Biron's successes, plus two for his weapon (a rapier), minus two for the thief's successes. Since he does not wear armor, the theif cannot choose to Soak.

   Biron rushes across the rooftop, leaping over a chimney and using his momentum to aid a quick strike at the thief's shoulder. The saber slashes into flesh, and the rogue cries out in pain. Knowing that he's faced with an opponent of superior skill and drive, he drops the money pouch and flees.

Four: Supernatural Powers

Some players may wish to play characters that can cast magic spells, use psychic powers, or fly around like Superman. In most cases, these mystical abilities will be treated just like normal Traits. However, if a character wishes to possess a less defined supernatural power, they may have access to a broader Trait, at a price.

Before you assign special supernatural Traits to your character, ask yourself this question: How broad is this Trait, really? If if could be seen as a single spell or power, like "Cast a spell that makes me flyk," or "Throw a burning energy blast," treat it as if it were a normal Trait. However, if it could be seen as an array of abilities or a school of magic, such as "Mastery of Fire magic" or "Super Spider Powers," it will be treated as a Supernatural Trait.

Supernatural Traits work just like normal Traits, but are more dangerous to use. Whenever a character using a Supernatural Trait makes a roll, and they roll more failures than successes, they take damage equal to the difference between the number of successes and failures rolled. This damage can not be soaked, even by characters who wear armor.

Note that Bonus Dice are not factored in when determining weather or not a character takes damage, and how much damage they take, from using Supernatural Traits.

Example: The room was dark. Biron could see nothing; nor had he seen anything for days. The shakles bit fiercely into his wrists and ankles, but try as he might, he could not move.

A low rumbling sound set up, followed by a piercing, rusty creak. A vertical slash of light blossomed, burning Biron's eyes. The doorway widened, and Mythros stepped into the cell. "Well, Biron," the greasy man said, in a mockingly conversive tone, "It seems that your usefulness is past. We've already got the girl, I might as well kill you now. I'm a little rusty, so this may take quite a while." Mythros gestured to two burly men behind him, who lifted Biron bodily, and threw him onto the floor, and left.

"Well, I shall set about capturing your soul to live as my puppet in eternal damnation, then. Hmm, how did that spell start . . ?" Mythros flicked his hands and muttered a few words, and a globe of dancing light appeared in front of him. In the dim illumination, he reached inside his robes, drawing forth various viles and arcane objects. Drawing a circle around Biron's prostate form with some greenish, foul smelling salt, and setting a large emerald on the fallen warrior's chest, the wizard began to chant.

Mythros has the Supernatural Trait of Demonic Necromancer at six, and the task of capturing a man's soul is no easy task, with a Difficulty of three. Not wanting to mess up, Mythros spends four of his five Spin dice. He rolls three, seven, eight, eight, nine: one success, and four failures! The task fails, and Mythros takes three points of damage.

The circle around Biron bursts into greenish, unholy flame, and the gem on his chest begins to burn with a hellish fire. Tendrils of smoke rise from the man's vest. Mythros is shouting now, the incantation rushing through his body like a secnond blood . . . too much! The wizard's eyes bulge as the words keep coming out of his mouth, against his will, the circle of flame burning brighter and brighter, much to intense . . .

Five: Rejuvenating

   Characters regain some of their former glory when they take a bit of time for rest and recreation. While taking a breather, characters slowly recover their health and regain Spin.

   Each day that a character rests, they may make a Roll to reduce their Wound Total. The Difficulty of this roll is equal to the number of Wounds that a character has, minus divided by two (maximum five). If they succeed, they recover one Wound.

   In addition, characters at rest regain some Spin when they're not climbing mile high cliffs, combating the forces of evil, or doing other strenuous work. Between scenes, each player will roll a number of dice equal to ten minus their character's current Spin Pool, with a minimum of no dice. Each die that rolls equal to or under the character's Spin Modifier lets them regain one point of Spin. A roll of zero always lets them regain two points of Spin, instead.

   Example: After the bout with the purse snatcher, the scene ends. Biron picks up his money, and shudders in the cold night air. It is refreshing, and he can feel his vitality flowing back.

   Biron currently has a Spin Pool of four, and a Spin Modifier of three. Therefore, he rolls six dice. He rolls two, two, three, four, five, six, eight; regaining three points of Spin and bringing his pool back up to seven.

Six: Advancement

   Through the course of the game, characters may grow and change. There are two ways that a character's Traits can shift: Redistribution and Experience.

   Redistribution is when a character decreases one trait in order to increase or add another. This should only be done with the Game Master's permission, and only when it makes sense. A character can not decrease a Trait to below two, and they may not increase a Trait to above seven.

   When a character or group of characters have accomplished a long term goal, the Game Master may award them Experience. When the GM does this, each player may increase one of their character's Traits by one point (but not to eight or above), or add a new Trait at three.

   In either case, characters may use a few points to increase their Spin Modifier instead, just as if it were a Trait. However, like normal Traits, a character's Spin Modifier may never increase beyond seven.

   Example: At long last, Biron has found his father's murderer, and put an end to him. The Game Master awards Alex a point of Experience to spend. He puts it into Swordsmanship, increasing that Trait to seven.

In addition, with his target of revenge out of the way, he has three points from his Seeking Revenge for Father Trait to redistribute. He chooses to switch the trait to Long-lasting Hate of Noir, the royal family to which the prince belonged.

Quote from: Jeph
Characters with higher traits relating to speed and agility, as well as those that use more light, maneuverable weapons, should be allowed to declare their action more often than slower characters

Any guidelines on how to implement this systematically?

Good stuff, just a couple of points (some are pure pedantry, sorry about that).

Quote from: JephSpin System Version 1.3

With such a fundamental chance from D6's to D10's, this should probably be V2. A big change like that is worth more than a point version upgrade (sorry, that's the programmer in me talking *grin*).

Quote from: JephExample: Alex is creating a new character, Biran. He writes: 'Biran's father was murdered in cold blood by a prince, and Biran has dedicated his life to tracking the man down. He has become a master of the blade in order to dispatch the man, and uses his natural charm and cunning to advance his goal.' From this, Alex distills the traits Swordsman at six, Seeking Revenge for Father at five, and Manipulative at three. He has spent nine of his Trait points, so Biran's Spin Modifier is three, and his Spin Pool is seven.

Given that he's only spent 9 of his 12, his spin mod is 2+3=5, spin pool is therefore 11.

Quote from: JephBefore they roll, a character may pick a relevant Trait. This may be any Trait that they possess, as long as they can logically relate it to the task at hand. If they can't find a relevant Trait, their Trait value is treated as one.

You mean two.

Quote from: JephIf a character has at least four Wounds, their Traits relating to physical actions are treated as if they were one point lower than they actually are. When a character has ammassed seven Wounds, their physical Traits are now penalized two points. A character that has sustained nine Wounds is unconcious. If a character takes any more Wounds, they may die. Note that penalties due to Wounds stack with any penalties due to heavy armor.

Just a clarification, have you changed this scale from what we discussed in the actual play thread? There it was 1-3: no penalty, 4-6: -1, 7-9: -2, 10: unconscious, 11+: may die. Also, you say that with 10 or more (11 or more?) wounds they may die but you forgot to put in the bit about making a roll against a difficulty of the number of wounds - 10.

Quote from: JephSome players may wish to play characters that can cast magic spells, use psychic powers, or fly around like Superman. In most cases, these mystical abilities will be treated just like normal Traits. However, if a character wishes to possess a less defined supernatural power, they may have access to a broader Trait, at a price.

As I found in play, this works quite well. I also like the wounds-for-more-failures-than-successes etc. However, this still doesn't quite solve the problem of broad traits because if I take a broad trait like "Demonic Necromancer" to the maximum of 7, I am very seldom going to get more failures than successes (each die has a 10% chance to give 2 successes, 70% chance to give 1 success and only 20% chance to give 1 failure) so there's almost no penalty to having the very broad supernatural trait.

How about this: For broad supernatural traits, every failure die rolled (regardless of number of successes) gives 1 fatigue point. These are as dibilitating as wounds and stack with wounds but refresh a lot quicker, about 5-10 minutes per point. If the spell is a failure, those points are wounds instead of fatigue.

So, as example:

Mythros has the Supernatural Trait of Demonic Necromancer at six, and the task of capturing a man's soul is no easy task, with a Difficulty of three. Not wanting to mess up, Mythros spends four of his five Spin dice. He rolls three, seven, eight, eight, nine: one success, and four failures! The task fails, and Mythros takes four wounds. If he had instead rolled two, three, three, four, nine he would have had 3 successes, 2 points of fatigue, and poor Biron would have a few centuries of torture to look forward to...

What do you think? I have a playtest session today, so I may try it both ways.

Quote from: JephFive: Rejuvenating

Just to clarify.. you dropped the idea of fully refreshing spin each scene? I'll try it both ways today and see what works.

Quote from: JephWhen a character or group of characters have accomplished a long term goal, the Game Master may award them Experience. When the GM does this, each player may increase one of their character's Traits by one point (but not to eight or above), or add a new Trait at three.

I still favor giving out points more often, but increasing the cost of raising traits higher, as we discussed a while back. Maybe raising a trait costs the current trait level in experience, so to buy a trait at 3 costs 2 (because since you don't already have the trait, it's default is 2) and then to increase it from 3 to 4 costs 3, and so on.

The main advantage of this is that it causes players to tend to broaden themselves, instead of focusing on one or two traits. If raising a trait from 6-7 is the same cost as raising another one from 3-4 I'm more likely to raise the one at 6.

Works just as well, but means that you have to give out more points/more often. What do you think?

Good stuff, I really like this system. In our last playtest we found that it was very narritivist-promoting. I'll get back to you with another actual play report after todays test.

V2.0 it is, then. :D

Minor mistakes: My bad! Thanks for pointing them out.

Wounds: I was thinking along the lines of a strict 10-point track when I wrote it down, but I guess that the 11+ track would work better.

Rejuvenating: Correct.

Experience: Fundamentally, I don't really see the difference between the two ways.  They both result in the same thing . . . increasing and new Traits. With your proposed exp system, heigher traits would go up more slowly then lower traits, but you'd need to keep track of more points. I'll probably throw it in as an option, since it can't hurt. :-)

Looking forward to the second report! Let's see if I can still edit the v2 post . . .

EDIT: nope, guess I can't. Ah well, the tweaks'll be in v2.1.

You didn't say anything about sorcery, which was the biggest change I proposed...

Brian.

Ah yes, sorcery and other magic stuff . . .

A good idea. The thing that makes it work is the rapidity with which Fatigue fades. Perhaps, to still make it slightly dangerous, the original rule could also be kept--you take Fatigue equal to the number of Failures rolled, and if your Failures outweight your successes, a portion of that Fatigue is instead damage.

For convenience, I'd have Fatigue fade at the end of a scene. It's easier than keeping track of minutes until individual points dissipate.

I suppose that accumulating huge amounts of Fatigue for using Supernatural Traits for many innaucus things is actually a good thing, keeping the magic level below the DnD fireball-chucking mishmash.

Another Actual Play report has just been posted here (http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=5549).


With comments, of course.

Brian.

Quote from: JephA good idea. The thing that makes it work is the rapidity with which Fatigue fades. Perhaps, to still make it slightly dangerous, the original rule could also be kept--you take Fatigue equal to the number of Failures rolled, and if your Failures outweight your successes, a portion of that Fatigue is instead damage.

Yeah, that's how we did it. Worked well. This means you can succeed, but still take wounds instead of just fatigue becauser you got 2 suvvesses and 4 failures (for example). The spell works, but you get 2 wounds and 2 fatigue.

Quote from: JephFor convenience, I'd have Fatigue fade at the end of a scene. It's easier than keeping track of minutes until individual points dissipate.

What's what I did. In fact, I had fatigue vanish prewtty quick even within a scene as long as they were resting/doing nothing strenuous.

Quote from: JephI suppose that accumulating huge amounts of Fatigue for using Supernatural Traits for many innaucus things is actually a good thing, keeping the magic level below the DnD fireball-chucking mishmash.

It's a useful limiter.

Brian.

I posted some comments in the Actual Play thread. I'll put up v2.1 after another day or two of system smithing.

-Jeff S.

I had a think about something else for possible inclusion into V2.1 of the Spin system if you like it.

I was trying to think about what would happen with traits above 7. I would never let a player buy a trait to above 7, of course, but there are some situations where a trait could effectively be raised above that (If I have a soaking trait of 6 and am wearing heavy armor +3, for example).

So, I was thinking that for every point above 7 a trait is at, you roll against TN7 but gain the difference in bonus dice (the differently colored, non-refreshing type we discussed for style bonuses earlier). So for the soak 6 + 3 heavy armor example, I roll against TN7, but I have 2 extra non-refreshing dice to add to my roll.

What do you think?

Brian.

Good point that I hadn't thought about, and works well. I'm assuming that these would be treated as standard bonus dice, and can't increase a character's Spin Pool. Hmm . . . any other little rough edges that haven't been caught yet?

I was planning on starting a new thread for v2.1, this one's getting a bit long, and a new topic might rope in a couple other voices.

Yeah, that's what I meant when I said non-refreshing, I probably should have explained that better, but I use that term as "does not refresh/increase spin pool with successes".

I think we got most of the rough edges, if there are others they didn't come out in 2 playtest sessions. And hey, there's always V2.2 if it comes to that :-)

Brian.

So, where's V2.1? :-)

Brian.

I also am interested in seeing the latest version.

Count me in for the next version.

Best,

Blake

So where's 2.1? Still waiting...

Brian.

Sorry, guys. Nice to know that others are interested in the development of Spin System. I've been playing a lot of DnD/Feng Shui lately, and haven't had much time to work on Spin System or Pagoda. And then there's school. When school starts becoming background and RPing the foreground, I take a break. Well, I'm back. =)

Spin System Version 2.1
Special THANKS! to Brian Leybourne, Glen Beaumont, Tony Hardie, Kurt Sholz, Curran Hoffman, and Michael Brannon.

One: Characters

   The first step of character creation is to write a short (about fifty words) paragraph describing your character. This is not a term paper, nor is it a single sentence. The paragraph should describe what your character is good at, their passions and drives, family, friends, background, and anything else.

   After you have written this paragraph, pick a couple of Traits from the information that you have given. Traits can be almost anything, from Strong to Swordsmen to Loves Jolene. Traits should be narrow and well defined. For instance, Weapons is too broad, as is Passionate. What type of weapons does your character use? Are they an archer? How are they passionate? Do they love deeply, or have strong fits of anger?

   Not all of your character's Traits have to be positive qualities. In fact, none of them do. For instance, you may choose Cowardice to be one of their Traits. This would aid your character in fleeing from danger, and getting the other guy to go see if the dragon's really 'just sleeping'.

   A Trait that has had no points assigned to it has a rating of two. You have twelve points with which to enhance your chosen Traits, although no Trait may have a value greater than seven. If you wish, you may set aside up to five Trait points that go into your Spin Modifier, instead of a normal Trait.

   Now that you know your Traits, you can figure your Spin Modifier. Your Spin Modifier is equal to two, plus any points that you set aside for this purpose. If you have designated six or more points for your Spin Modifier, your Spin Modifier is seven. At the beginning of a session, your Spin Pool is equal to double your Spin Modifier, plus one.

   Example: Alex is creating a new character, Biran. He writes: 'Biran's father was murdered in cold blood by a prince, and Biran has dedicated his life to tracking the man down. He has become a master of the blade in order to dispatch the man, and uses his natural charm and cunning to advance his goal.' From this, Alex distills the traits Swordsman at six, Seeking Revenge for Father at five, Natural Charm at four, and Cunning. He has spent eleven of his Trait points, so Biran's Spin Modifier is three, and his Spin Pool is seven.

Two: System

   Whenever a character attempts to do something difficult, they will make a Roll. When a character makes a Roll, they roll a ten-sided die. They may spend Spin to roll up to four extra dice. Spent spin is immediately subtracted from a character's Spin pool.

   Before they roll, a character may pick a relevant Trait. This may be any Trait that they possess, as long as they can logically relate it to the task at hand. If they can't find a relevant Trait, their Trait value is treated asif it were two.

   When a character makes a Roll, the GM must set a Difficulty for the Roll. This Difficulty should be one for a moderately hard task, two for difficult tasks, three for very difficult tasks, four for a superheroic task, and five for a task that borders on the impossible.

   If the task is being actively resisted by another character, the GM does not set a Difficulty. Instead, both players roll, and the one that gets the most Successes wins. If both characters roll the same number of Successes, the one with the higher relevant Trait value wins. If both characters have the same Trait value, then the roll is a tie. When a character makes an opposed roll, and has multiple relevant Traits, only the highest of these Traits applies. However, in the case of a tie, combine all relevant Traits to determine the victor.

If the player describes their character's action particularly well, the GM may choose to reward them with one or two Bonus Dice. In an opposed roll, the GM can award one character a bonus die to represent an advantage over their opposition. For each Bonus Die awarded, the player may add one die of a different color to their die pool. These Bonus Dice can count as successes, but they can never replenish a character's Spin Pool. Note that Bonus Dice do not count against a roll's 5-die maximum.

   Every die that comes up equal to or under the character's relevant Trait value is treated as a Success. Each die that comes up with a zero counts as two successes. (If a character's Trait is somehow reduced to below two, such as from the penalties for being wounded or wearing heavy armor, a zero counts as only a single success.) If the player rolls at least as many Successes as the task's Difficulty, the y are successful.

   For each Success that does not come from a Bonus Die, a character's Spin Pool is increased by one.

   Example: The thief quietly snuck up to Biron, eyes fixed upon the man's bulging money pouch. A quick slash, and then he'd disappear across the moonlit rooftops and into the night.

   The Thief has a Pick Pocket Trait of six, and a Spin Pool of five. He spends three of his Spin Pool, rolling six, four, eight, seven: two successes, and a current Spin Pool of four. The GM asks Alex to make a roll for Biron involving perception. Biron has no relevant Trait, but Alex doesn't want to be duped, so spends two points of Spin. He rolls zero, four, five: two successes and a Spin Pool remaining at seven. Because the thief has a higher Trait, he succeeds at the task, but the GM rules that Biron is at least aware of the rogue.

   The thief's hand darted in, the dagger twirled deftly, and the pouch fell into his hand. Sensing a slight tug, Biron spun around, but too late: a shadowy figure leapt up onto a barrel, then up a fence, and was now bounding away over the city's shingled peaks. Biron whipped out his sword, roared, and gave chase.

   Biron again has no relative Trait, but wants to get his money back, because he earned it, damn it! He spends four points of Spin, rolling one, two, four, five, five: two Successes, and a current Spin Pool of five. The thief is again ready for this sort of thing, with a Quick Getaway Trait of four. He spends three points of Spin, rolling three, zero, five, nine: three Successes, a current Spin Pool of four, and a victory.

   The thief nimbly leapt over a rooftop, and was gone. Biron stopped, breathing hard, and began casting about in the shadows. There! More distant, but still there. The chase goes on . . .

Three: Combat

   Usually, when characters are engaged in combat, time is not broken down into rounds, as it is in many other Role Playing Games. Instead, characters simply declare an action, state what Trait they are using and give a justification if necessary, and assign a number of Spin to the roll. After they have done this, but before they have rolled any dice, all other characters have a chance to react. They, too, will follow the above process. Then, players either roll appropriate dice, or one or more of them Bolsters their roll.

   When a player decides to Bolster one of their characters' rolls, they must immediately pay 1 point of Spin. After they have done this, they may add extra dice to the roll on a one-for-one basis, as long as the total number or dice rolled does not exceed five. Bolstering can represent extra effort, a feint, a shift of the wind, or anything else. Each player may only Bolster once per roll, but you may Bolster in reaction to the Bolstering of another. After all Bolstering is done, the roll is made.

   Characters with higher traits relating to speed and agility, as well as those that use more light, maneuverable weapons, should be allowed to declare their action more often than slower characters.

   Striking another character in combat is normally an Opposed Roll. However, if the defender is completely unaware of the attacker, this task has a Difficulty of one.

   When a character is actually hit in combat, the attacker figure's the attack's Damage Rating, which is equal to the number of successes rolled in the attack, minus the number of successes that the defender rolled, plus the Damage Modifier of the weapon used. Typical Damage Modifiers are zero for a punch, kcik, or knife, one for a short sword, two for a rapier or pistol, and three for a large axe or rifle.

   The defender may now Soak Damage. If they do, they make a relevant roll. Subtract the number of Successes rolled from the attack's Damage Rating. The defender takes the new, modified damage rating in Wounds. Characters that don't wear armor can only soak damage that comes from impacts, such as a punch or fall. If a character wears very heavy armor, they will gain one or two Bonus Dice when soaking damage, but are treated as if their Traits relating to agility and full-body movement were one or two points lower than they actually are, respectively.

   If a character has at least four Wounds, their Traits relating to physical actions are treated as if they were one point lower than they actually are. When a character has ammassed seven Wounds, their physical Traits are now penalized two points. A character that has sustained nine Wounds is unconcious. If a character takes any more Wounds, they may die. Note that penalties due to Wounds stack with any penalties due to heavy armor.

A character with ten or more Wounds must make a Roll using a Trait that relates to health and toughness. The Difficulty of this roll is equal to the number of Wounds that the character has, minus nine. If the character succeeds at this roll, they are merely unconcious. If they fail, they will die. A character that almost meets the Difficulty will live longer before passing on than one who fails to meet the Difficulty by a long shot.

   Example: As he ran, the thief flipped his knife, so that he held the blade between his two fingers. He wanted to end this chase, end it now: that man looked dangerous. He cocked the blade back, let fly.

   The thief has a Knife Fighting Trait at five, and spends his entire remaining Spin Pool (four points). Alex says that Biron attempts to deftly knock the dagger out of the air with his saber, using his Swordsman skill at six, and also spending four points of his Spin Pool. The thief rolls one, two, two, six, six: three successes, and a current Spin of three. Alex rolls zero, three, six, seven, seven: four successes, a current Spin of five, and a successful maneuver.

   Biron twirls his sword, flicking it like a snake, and the dagger ceases it's flight, clattering to the roof, then sliding off to the street below. The thief pulls another knife as Biron leaps over the rooftops to close and attack.

   The GM rules that this is actually two actions for Biron: one to close, one to attack. Alex spends four points of Spin to catch the thief, using the default Trait of two. The thief, knowing that he'll be caught eventually, spends no Spin points, and uses his Quick Getaway of four. Biron rolls one, one, five, five, six: two successes, and a Spin Pool of three. The thief rolls an eight: no successes, and his Spin remains at four. Biron closes.

   Next comes the attack. Biron's Swordsman Trait at six applies, and Alex elects to spend his entire Spin Pool of three. The thief attempts to catch the blade with the handgaurd of his knife, using his Knife Fighting at five, and also spending three Spin. Alex rolls  one, two, five, five, six: four successes, and a Spin now at four. The thief rolls three, three, five, nine: two Successes, and a curent Spin of three. Biron's attack hits.  It deals four points of damage: four for Biron's successes, plus two for his weapon (a rapier), minus two for the thief's successes. Since he does not wear armor, the theif cannot choose to Soak.

   Biron rushes across the rooftop, leaping over a chimney and using his momentum to aid a quick strike at the thief's shoulder. The saber slashes into flesh, and the rogue cries out in pain. Knowing that he's faced with an opponent of superior skill and drive, he drops the money pouch and flees.

OPTION: COMBAT WITH ROUNDS

If the players and GM want, combat can be carried out in a more orderly fashion. At the beginning of each combat round, have each participant (or group of identical participants) make a Roll relating to awareness, speed, combative prowess, or reaction. Those who roll a high number of successes may state their Action before those who rolled lower, although they may decide to go later if they like.

If you are using the Combat With Rounds varient, everything that a character does will be classified as either an Action, a Reaction, or a Non-Action. Example Actions or attacking and attempting to run away. Example Reactions are parrying a blow, or stopping an enemy from fleeing. Non-Actions include soaking damage and talking.

Each round, a character may take one Action, one Reaction, and as many Non-Actions as they like. After every character involved has taken their Action, any character may spend Spin to take extra Actions. The first extra Action costs one point of Spin, the second costs two, and so on.

Similarly, a character may spend Spin to take extra Reactions, although they may do so even if other characters have not taken their first Reaction for the round. The first extra Reaction costs one point of Spin, the second costs two, etc.

Note that extra spin costs for Actions and Reactions are tracked seperately. So, for instance, a character has already taken an extra Action. If they wish to take an extra Reaction, it will still only cost one point of Spin.

At the beginning of a new round, an initiative roll is made again, and characters may again take one free Action and one free Reaction.

Four: Supernatural Powers

Some players may wish to play characters that can cast magic spells, use psychic powers, or fly around like Superman. In most cases, these mystical abilities will be treated just like normal Traits. However, if a character wishes to possess a less defined supernatural power, they may have access to a broader Trait, at a price.

Before you assign special supernatural Traits to your character, ask yourself this question: How broad is this Trait, really? If if could be seen as a single spell or power, like "Cast a spell that makes me fly," or "Throw a burning energy blast," treat it as if it were a normal Trait. However, if it could be seen as an array of abilities or a school of magic, such as "Mastery of Fire magic" or "Super Spider Powers," it will be treated as a Supernatural Trait.

Supernatural Traits work just like normal Traits, but are more dangerous to use. Whenever a character using a Supernatural Trait makes a roll, and one or more dice do not come up Successes, they take a number of Fatigue points equal to the number of 'failures.' If, in a Supernatural Trait Roll, the number of failures rolled outnumber the successes rolled, a portion of those Fatigue Points equal to the number of failures minus the number of successes are instead normal damage. Neither this Fatigue nor Damage may be Soaked.

Note that Bonus Dice are not factored in when determining weather or not a character takes Fatigue or Damage, or how much they take, from using Supernatural Traits.

Example: The room was dark. Biron could see nothing; nor had he seen anything for days. The shakles bit fiercely into his wrists and ankles, but try as he might, he could not move.

A low rumbling sound set up, followed by a piercing, rusty creak. A vertical slash of light blossomed, burning Biron's eyes. The doorway widened, and Mythros stepped into the cell. "Well, Biron," the greasy man said, in a mockingly conversive tone, "It seems that your usefulness is past. We've already got the girl, I might as well kill you now. I'm a little rusty, so this may take quite a while." Mythros gestured to two burly men behind him, who lifted Biron bodily, and threw him onto the floor, and left.

"Well, I shall set about capturing your soul to live as my puppet in eternal damnation, then. Hmm, how did that spell start . . ?" Mythros flicked his hands and muttered a few words, and a globe of dancing light appeared in front of him. In the dim illumination, he reached inside his robes, drawing forth various viles and arcane objects. Drawing a circle around Biron's prostate form with some greenish, foul smelling salt, and setting a large emerald on the fallen warrior's chest, the wizard began to chant.

Mythros has the Supernatural Trait of Demonic Necromancer at six, and the spell to capture a man's soul is no easy task, with a Difficulty of three. Not wanting to mess up, Mythros spends four of his five Spin dice. He rolls three, seven, eight, eight, nine: one success, and four failures! The spell fails, and Mythros ends up with one point of Fatigue and three points of Damage.

The circle around Biron bursts into greenish, unholy flame, and the gem on his chest begins to burn with a hellish fire. Tendrils of smoke rise from the man's vest. Mythros is shouting now, the incantation rushing through his body like a secnond blood . . . too much! The wizard's eyes bulge as the words keep coming out of his mouth, against his will, the circle of flame burning brighter and brighter, much to intense . . .

Five: Pain Hurts

There are six ways that a character can be weakened: Damage, Non-Soakable Damage, Fatigue, Non-Soakable Fatigue, Trait Drain, and Spin Drain.

Damage is the standard inury. Blunt trauma, such as being hit in the head with a club or falling out of a second story window, causes Damage. Other sources of damage are fire, being struck by an edged weapon while wearing armor, and exposure to strong acids and bases. See Three: Combat for more info on the effects of Damage and how to soak Damage.

Non-Soakable Damage comes from physical trauma that's hard to ignore. Falling out of the twentieth story window, having a bullet enter your skull, being struck by lightning, that sort of thing. Non-Soakable Damage acts just like damage, but can not be reduced with an appropriate Roll (although it can be turned into normal Damage, in some cases).

Fatigue is when your character gets tired, basically. Like damage, it may be soaked with a relevant Trait roll. Running for a long time, staying out in the sun, and keeping awake past your betime can all result in small amounts of Fatigue. Fatigue stacks with damage when determining penalties, but can never result in a character's death. Non-soakable Fatigue is just like normal Fatigue, but is not reduced by a soaking roll. The only common source of Non-Soakable Fatigue is the use of Supernatural Traits. Armor does not assist in resisting Fatigue.

Trait Drain occurs when a set of related Traits are effectively decreased. For instance, heavy armor burdens a character, decreasing Traits related to physical activity. Wounds do the same thing. The amount by which Traits are decreased, and which Traits are penalized, are handled on a case by case basis.

Spin Drain is the most common form of penalty, but by far not the most noticed. Whenever you lose spin, that is Spin Drain, be the cause a bad roll, or extra actions taken during combat when using the varient rounds system.

Each day that a character rests, they may make a Roll to reduce their Wound Total. The Difficulty of this roll is equal to the number of Wounds that a character has, minus divided by two (maximum five). If they succeed, they recover one Wound.

Fatigue goes away whenever a specific criteria is met. For most Fatigue, that criteria is simply a scene ends, or the character spends a while resting. However, Fatigue from some sources may have a different criteria. For example, Fatigue resulting from thirst may fade when the character takes a drink, and Fatigue resulting from cold may fade when the character warms up.

Trait Drain disappears whenever the circumstance limiting that trait is alleviated. For instance, when a character takes off heavy armor, their Traits relating to physical actions are no longer penalized.

Spin is recovered naturally whenever a character rolls well. In addition, between scenes, each player will roll a number of dice equal to ten minus their character's current Spin Pool, with a minimum of no dice. Each die that rolls equal to or under the character's Spin Modifier lets them regain one point of Spin. A roll of zero always lets them regain two points of Spin, instead. At the start of a game session, a character's Spin Pool is always equal to double their Spin Modifier, plus one.

Six: Other Challenges

Guys with big swords (or guns, or Super Ray Atomic Destroyers, or whatevers) aren't the only way to get hurt. There's also starvation, poison gasses, large cliffs, and much much more.

For extended trials that get progressively harder, such as a juant across a burning dessert or going without sleep for a week, penalties should start low, and increase. Lets use the going sleepless example. The first night, penalty might be one point of soakable Fatigue. The second night, it would be two points. The third night would be three points, and so on.

Extended trials that maintain a steady difficulty should simply have a penalty that is applied every so often. For instance, if a character is attatched to the Strength Sapping Device of Doom, they might lose one spin die, take a -1 penalty to all strength related Traits, and take one point of Non-Soakable Damage per minute.

Sudden pain and injury should be given a Difficulty and a Penalty Rating. The character will then make a relevant Trait Roll against the Difficulty. If they fail, the penalty will be equal to the Difficulty plus the Penalty Rating, minus the number of successes scored in the roll. For instance, falling twenty stories might have a Difficulty of three, and a Penalty Rating of ten. If the character fails their roll to grab onto a ledge, they'll take damage equal to thirteen minus the number of successes that they rolled.

Large hordes of lesser enemies are handled a bit differently. Instead of giving each individual opponant their own set of Traits and a personal Spin Pool, each one has identical Traits, and they share a communal Spin Pool. Typically, the size of this pool should be between three and five points per contributer. Each adversary acts seperately, but the Spin gains and losses of each one effect the group pool. Additionally, do not keep track of Wounds for each individual in such a horde. Instead, subtract the defending horde member's successes from the attacker's successes. They take damage equal to this difference times five. (Basically, one extra Success means that they're injured, two indicates that they're out of the fight.)

Seven: Advancement

   Through the course of the game, characters may grow and change. There are two ways that a character's Traits can shift: Redistribution and Experience.

   Redistribution is when a character decreases one trait in order to increase or add another. This should only be done with the Game Master's permission, and only when it makes sense. A character can not decrease a Trait to below two, and they may not increase a Trait to above seven.

   When a character or group of characters have accomplished a long term goal, the Game Master may award them Experience. When the GM does this, each player may increase one of their character's Traits by one point (but not to eight or above), or add a new Trait at three.

   In either case, characters may use a few points to increase their Spin Modifier instead, just as if it were a Trait. However, like normal Traits, a character's Spin Modifier may never increase beyond seven.

   Example: At long last, Biron has found his father's murderer, and put an end to him. The Game Master awards Alex a point of Experience to spend. He puts it into Swordsmanship, increasing that Trait to seven.

In addition, with his target of revenge out of the way, he has three points from his Seeking Revenge for Father Trait to redistribute. He chooses to switch the trait to Long-lasting Hate of Noir, the royal family to which the prince belonged.

OPTION: POINT-COST ADVANCEMENT

If a GM wants, they may award Experience more often, but raise the cost of increasing a Trait or Spin Modifier. If a GM chooses to do so, they should award about three points of Experience per game session. However, the cost of increasing a Trait or Spin Modifier by one point is now the new value of that Trait or Spin Modifier. New Traits at three cost three points of experience.

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Remarks, questions, comments, etcetera, as always, appreciated.

Great stuff!

A couple of clarifications.. I thought we had discussed armor adding to relevant trait levels for soaking, rather than adding extra dice (but in both cases reducing physical traits by a like amount). So heavy armor +2 would make my "tough as old nails" 3 become 5 for the purposes of soaking, but I still only get 1 die (plus spin), as opposed to the trait remaining at 3 but I get 1 die plus 2 bomus dice (plus spin). Also, we discussed allowing soak rolls against all damage (because otherwise the system is too deadly, especially in any genre with guns etc being prevalent) which is why armor now gives bonuses instead of the old system where it simply gave you the opportunity to soak lethal damage.

Any reason why you changed those? Just curious.

One other thing I would note for the optional combat rounds.. IMC I was allowing an Action to count as a Reaction if the character wanted, so those low on spin and/or were not terribly good at fighting could use their Action+Reaction as 2 Reactions (for dodging and the like).

There's a couple of spelling errors you might want to check out too, but otherwise, excellent stuff.

Brian.

p.s Good to see you back, been wondering where you were :-)

Quote from: Brian LeybourneGreat stuff!

A couple of clarifications.. I thought we had discussed armor adding to relevant trait levels for soaking, rather than adding extra dice (but in both cases reducing physical traits by a like amount). So heavy armor +2 would make my "tough as old nails" 3 become 5 for the purposes of soaking, but I still only get 1 die (plus spin), as opposed to the trait remaining at 3 but I get 1 die plus 2 bomus dice (plus spin). Also, we discussed allowing soak rolls against all damage (because otherwise the system is too deadly, especially in any genre with guns etc being prevalent) which is why armor now gives bonuses instead of the old system where it simply gave you the opportunity to soak lethal damage.

Any reason why you changed those? Just curious.

The reason that I didn't convert armor into strait Trait bonuses, and make all damage soakable, is that I hate making exceptions. If all damage was soakable, then damage from Supernatural Traits would be, too, which means that, if a character had a high Toughness, they'd actually come out on top (more spin dice) by rolling, say, one Failure on every spell. . . Hmm, seems like there's a flaw in my logic somewhere, but I can't pinpoint it.

Quote from: Brian LeybourneOne other thing I would note for the optional combat rounds.. IMC I was allowing an Action to count as a Reaction if the character wanted, so those low on spin and/or were not terribly good at fighting could use their Action+Reaction as 2 Reactions (for dodging and the like).

Good thoughts. Did you put that in your 2nd Actual Play writeup? Ah yes. I was looking at that paragraph as I wrote the option section, not sure how I missed that. Well, it'll be in 2.2, then. :-)

*BING* Found the flaw in my logic: With the current damage system, I'm still making an exception for Supernatural Traits: non-soakable Fatigue.

Quote from: Brian LeybourneThere's a couple of spelling errors you might want to check out too, but otherwise, excellent stuff.

Brian.

p.s Good to see you back, been wondering where you were :-)

Spell errors are expected, I tend to work on this stuff at about 10 PM. My adversity (or bad memory?) to spellcheck doesn't help either. =)

Good to be back!

-Jeff S.

Shit!  I'm too busy working on my own game to check this out right now.  I'll just add in my own "welcome back" to the chorus.