I've been thinking about making an indie RPG for a long time, and multiple genres have crossed my mind, but I haven't come up with the right genre! Now I ask, what is the most wanted RPG genre next to Fantasy only using one race (humans) and apart from non-supernatural genres?
(taking my first step to my own RPG :) )
Are you looking to find the most 'published to' genre within the body of role-playing games in print? Are you looking for which in-print genres are most popular right now? Or are you asking what genres are most popular with the public at large (not just gamers) that have been treated by in-print role-playing games?
Without more detail, about the best answers would be merely preferences upon the parts of the respondents.
Fang Langford
First: Don't worry about popularity.
Seriously. If you don't have a passion for what you're working on, it won't show in your work.
Rather than worrying about popularity, work instead on making a game you would enjoy playing, making it work, and playtesting it. Your enthusiasm for your own work will translate into sales.
Which is the other thing: Don't expect to make a lot of money. Don't quit your day job.
What sort of game do YOU want? What sets YOU on fire?
What sets me on fire is the following: 1 in 1000 people having supernormal powers in the Modern time. Though this category is too broad, and anything in it sets me on fire!
My new question: how could I design a special abilities system within this category? Please note that I want to make it as a sort of 'add-on' to the game, not being a major part of the real system itself.
What kind of supernormal powers are they and how "super" are they? Also, what do you consider to be the "Modern time"?
With modern time, well, NOW! It doesn't have to be this world, just something that really looks like it! And with supernormal powers: something like creating objects with the mind; or using special items to summon creatures; or reinforcinf your body with it to destroy walls by pushing your indez finger against them and moving at incredible speeds.
Hope that answers your questions...
Have you checked out Brave New World or Godlike Mist? Is that the sort of thing you're after?
A question I have is, are the characters going to be the 1-in-1000 people who posess these supernormal powers, or are the characters going to be the 999-in-1000 blokes who exist in a modern world in which some people have these powers?
To rephrase with the intent on clarity: Are the characters normal people, or are they superheros? Or both? Either?
I believe that the answer to that question could seriously impact your design.
The ones with supernormal powers are like...they've always excisted. People don't really care about them, they know they posses these abilities, and point it out most of the times; but it's not like the superpowered ones are feared by all others...more like amazing people. They do not necisarily bring destruction, they just have different careers because of their abilities. Brave New World and Godlike aren't even close. and I think that it's more 1 in 750 than 1 in 1000, as there are a lot that know how to use it, but a lot are total newbies that learnt the technique, but have no damn idea how to use it! And the superpowered can have more than one technique, it just takes more training.
I assume that Mr. Hunter means a Superhero RPG. Which is certainly a popular genre.
Why would you want the super powers to be modular to the rest of the design? Are you contemplating a generic undercarriage?
Mike
NOT SUPERHERO! I HATE SUPERHEROES!!!!!!!! This is superhero-like, but it's not that. In fact, the characters are probably not 'heroes' at all, most of them will probably be thieves or hired assassins, as this makes more money. And I'm thinking of an experience system that awards players on how many people they've killed. And, unlike (most) superhero RPGs/stories, the abilities in my RPG are LEARNT!
Hmmmm, really, I'm getting more thoughts about my RPG already. Please keep posting! They're really helping me out!
A super villian rpg could be interesting. Care to share any more details on the super abilities?
I think we've miscommunicated on the whole genre thing, but you've made yourself clear so I won't persue it.
That said, you didn't answer my question which I was genuinely interested in.
Mike
The characters aren't really villians, more like people finding a way to make money fast, at the cost of others. Yes, more egoism/greed than being evil (tho they're still a sin). But not all are like that, PCs can choose to not use their abilities unless encountered with other 'gifted people', which I still need a name for.
As for history of the ability, this is a rough draft that came to my mind as writing this post:
The ability is called 'Spirit' and is discovered by dojos. Each of these dojos teaches the ability in a different way; some require an object to focuse your Spirit on, others have a long and complicated ritual. Tho the ability is usually taught by someelse outside of the dojo, you will belong to the dojo. E.g., if someone taught you the way of the 'Shijuku' dojo, you belong to the Shijuku dojo, even if you decide to train the ability in another dojo.
More coming up, comments on this explanation are apreciated!
To me, it sounds like White Wolf's Aberrant, in that the players (I assume) have powers, but aren't necessarily heroes nor gods nor villains.
I am curious as to what type of powers one can learn. How do you see these powers manifesting? Since you hate superheroes, can we assume that powers are a little less flashy than the comics, more understated, but nonetheless powerful in their own right?
These dojos intrigue me. Is there a "Stealth" dojo that teaches the skills of the mythical ninja? Is there a "Warrior" dojo that teaches the student to turn his body into an invincible weapon? Is there a "Mystic" dojo that teaches all sorts of cool Jedi-mind-tricks? Is it less that the characters have powers, and more like they have unearthly, power-like levels of skill in certain areas, ie. a "Doctor" dojo that teaches how to bring people back from the dead?
Just to keep the questions coming...
Mist, might I suggest that you return to this thread when you actually have something concrete enough to be read and commented on. I'm not sure sporadic idea dumps on a forum board is the best way for you to tackle the design of your game.
I'm having trouble reconciling
Quote from: one thing MistHunterThe ones with supernormal powers are like...they've always excisted. People don't really care about them, they know they posses these abilities, and point it out most of the times; but it's not like the superpowered ones are feared by all others...more like amazing people.
with
Quote from: this other thing heIn fact, the characters are probably not 'heroes' at all, most of them will probably be thieves or hired assassins, as this makes more money. And I'm thinking of an experience system that awards players on how many people they've killed.
This aspect of the background has already "snapped my disbelief suspenders". You're suggesting that there are these people, between 0.1% and 0.13% of the population, who
- have powers beyond those of normal people, and
- use these powers to steal and kill and otherwise take advantage of the weak,[/list:u] and that the rest of the people in the world just think this is all right?
The background you're suggesting starts to sound like the series Prey, in which the "new species" is hiding among us and using its superior abilities to try to replace us. I think that if ordinary humans were aware that there were these extraordinary individuals out there who generally used their abilities for nefarious and often murderous purposes, we would put a stop to them.
In fact, if even only one in ten of your hypothetical superhumans took this attitude, and the other nine in ten did not both - actively work to stop these villains AND
- maintain a strongly positive public relations campaign,[/list:u] the vast majority of us would want to get control over ALL of these people, because they are dangerous and need to be contained.
O.K., maybe that's the idea behind the mutant stuff in Marvel; but you've got to admit, it's not terribly credible to suggest that there are supervillains out there and nobody cares. If we didn't know, that would be different. Or maybe if it was obvious that these supervillains were always so selfish and egotistical that they were always quite intentionally working at cross purposes (such that every scheme to take over the world would be countered by another villain who can't abide to allow the first villain to beat him to it), we might tolerate it. But the suggestion has been made that these superior people survive by robbing and killing the inferior ones, and the inferior ones outnumber them at least 749 to 1, so we are going to bring them down.
I guess I'm just not interested in a game in which the players play the bad guys. Maybe if they play bad guys trying to find redemption (Forever Knight?), or bad guys who are really good guys fighting a bad system (Star Wars rebels? Robin Hood?), or good guys no one trusts (Spiderman?), but just to play villains for the gratuity of killing and stealing when no one is strong enough to stop you seems like a waste of good game time.
--M. J. Young
MJ Young makes some excellent points.
The background doesn't make much sense. A huge number of people have powers, in my home city of London we have roughly 7 million people (not counting suburbs). That makes for around 9,333 powered individuals. Except, London being the Capital and all, it would be more than that as powered individuals would likely move here from other parts of the country.
These people prey on others using their special abilities.
Why do we let them? Why don't we get the army to shoot them or the police to take them down one by one? Probably in part because only 1 person in 500 is in the police so there are nearly as many of these powered individuals as we have police.
So why don't they take over?
Essentially, this sounds nothing like the modern world. I can't see how a culture and civilisation like ours could co-exist with the numbers of powered individuals you posit. I also can't see why the normals ignore these people. It makes no sense. I would not live in London if I had to share it with over 9,000 hostile superpowered people many of whom were inclined to rob and kill and who could not be stopped. Nobody would.
Also, if the supers always existed I seriously doubt our civilisation would ever have developed. Basic democratic concepts such as "All men are created equal" would be manifestly untrue. Christianity would never develop as it has, apart from anything else nobody would believe that Christ was the son of god, they'd just figure he was another super. What value miracles in a world where 1 person in 750 can perform them anyway?
Sorry to sound so harsh. But this really needs a lot of further thought.
Also, why is Godlike not close precisely? Godlike is about what would happen in the real world if certain people possessed superpowers (and while you may dislike the word supers that's still your concept in a nutshell). What is it about the Godlike approach you disagree with? It sounds to me like Godlike is already what you are looking to design, save that Godlike has given thought to the relationships between normals and talents and the effects of superpowers on society.
Hi there,
Mist', without getting too hung up on "what would happen" and the "setting making sense," I think that you might enjoy checking out these two games:
Godlike - all you'd have to do is remove the World War Two context and simply play as you see fit, using the powers-rules in the game.
Heroic Do-Gooders and Dastardly Deed-Doers - this game permits playing the Dastardly characters as player-characters, and if everyone does that, you'd have a game such as you describe. I also think that its emphasis on Today as the setting (not a made-up world) is just what you're after.
These are very different games in terms of points, powers, resolution, and many other things, so it'd be interesting to know which one of them is more suited to your goals of play. If neither of them is suited to those goals, mechanically speaking, then it's time to consider writing your own game.
Best,
Ron
Ron,
Mist already ruled out Godlike above, saying it was not even close. This is why I ask the question I do in the latter part of my post.
Hi Max,
I realize this. Since Mist's objections seem to rely on setting-issues, I'm attempting to focus his or her attention on the mechanics and power-construction rules.
I also suggest that we all stop playing Twenty Questions or Hot-Cold. Mist, we can't keep providing suggestions and have you bat them away with "Nope, that's not it." That will lead to an eight-page thread with nothing on it.
To help you get started, please provide us with some better perspective on what, in your view, will be the single most fun moment of play.
Best,
Ron
When I saw your examples of how many 'supers' that would be, it shocked me, how could I be so bad with numbers!!!!!! Seriously, now I think that it's more 1 in 3000. Let's see....times thousand....times 3.....3000 supers in London.....still too much..... *keeps on doing this*
AHA! 1 in 18.000!
NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Off by 17.250 people! AM I THAT BAD WITH NUMBERS?!
and also, they prey more on themselves and the rich people than the normal people. Geez, this setting is hard to explain.......
Most of these 'supers' are very bad at the skil; only 1 in a 50 supers is actually strong enough to be called inhuman, and only 1 in 150 supers can be called a threat to society.
Anyways, I'll come back with the setting issue soon; it's Ron's turn now...
that'll probably be when the PCs come face to face with 'that' gang of supers with a fearful reputation all over the world. Will they kill the PCs, ot ask them to join them? Or just let the PCs go? It depends on your image; you look like you can get in their way, you'll get the first option. Look strong enough and suitable for the team, you get the second option, deny it or accept it, that's you choice, but denying could be the worst decision... Look like no threat and weak opponent, the third option is yours.
In a situation like this, the PCs will have infinite choices, tho if they get the first option, the best choice would probably be running... But just simple running would probably not be good enough; you better outsmart them....
I'll post tomorow some more about the setting problems.
And on a last note... I'm gonna scrape the kill reward system; if I was to play this RPG, it would probably not apeal to me...
And on a very last note...! As this might seem like 20 questions to most of you, you're really helping me materialize my RPG. I could say I'm almost done with the setting. (Tho I bet you guys will find another flaw, which just helps me get closer to a great RPG! ^_^ )
Here's some fun figures. I've run it for three orders of magnitude. I figure you're going to want something between 1 in 10,000, and 1 in 1,000,000. So, for each I've listed the total people with powers(pow), the total who are skilled in thier power (ski:a subset of the total powereds), and the threatening level (thr: a subset of skilleds).
1 in 10,000 1 in 100,000 1 in 1,000,000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Country Pop | Pow Ski Thr | Pow Ski Thr |Pow Ski Thr
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afghanistan 28,717,213 2872 57 19 287 6 2 29 1 0
Algeria 32,818,500 3282 66 22 328 7 2 33 1 0
Angola 10,766,471 1077 22 7 108 2 1 11 0 0
Argentina 38,740,807 3874 77 26 387 8 3 39 1 0
Australia 19,731,984 1973 39 13 197 4 1 20 0 0
Bangladesh 138,448,210 13845 277 92 1384 28 9 138 3 1
Belarus 10,322,151 1032 21 7 103 2 1 10 0 0
Belgium 10,289,088 1029 21 7 103 2 1 10 0 0
Brazil 182,032,604 18203 364 121 1820 36 12 182 4 1
Burkina Faso 13,228,460 1323 26 9 132 3 1 13 0 0
Burma 42,510,537 4251 85 28 425 9 3 43 1 0
Cambodia 13,124,764 1312 26 9 131 3 1 13 0 0
Cameroon 15,746,179 1575 32 11 157 3 1 16 0 0
Canada 32,207,113 3221 64 21 322 6 2 32 1 0
Chile 15,665,216 1567 31 10 157 3 1 16 0 0
China 1,286,975,468 128698 2574 858 12870 257 86 1287 26 9
Colombia 41,662,073 4166 83 28 417 8 3 42 1 0
Congo 56,625,039 5663 113 38 566 11 4 57 1 0
Cote d'Ivoire 16,962,491 1696 34 11 170 3 1 17 0 0
Cuba 11,263,429 1126 23 8 113 2 1 11 0 0
Czech Republic 10,249,216 1025 21 7 102 2 1 10 0 0
Ecuador 13,710,234 1371 27 9 137 3 1 14 0 0
Egypt 74,718,797 7472 149 50 747 15 5 75 2 1
Ethiopia 66,557,553 6656 133 44 666 13 4 67 1 0
France 60,180,529 6018 120 40 602 12 4 60 1 0
Germany 82,398,326 8240 165 55 824 16 5 82 2 1
Ghana 20,467,747 2047 41 14 205 4 1 20 0 0
Greece 10,665,989 1067 21 7 107 2 1 11 0 0
Guatemala 13,909,384 1391 28 9 139 3 1 14 0 0
Hungary 10,045,407 1005 20 7 100 2 1 10 0 0
India 1,049,700,118 104970 2099 700 10497 210 70 1050 21 7
Indonesia 234,893,453 23489 470 157 2349 47 16 235 5 2
Iran 68,278,826 6828 137 46 683 14 5 68 1 0
Iraq 24,683,313 2468 49 16 247 5 2 25 1 0
Italy 57,998,353 5800 116 39 580 12 4 58 1 0
Japan 127,214,499 12721 254 85 1272 25 8 127 3 1
Kazakhstan 16,763,795 1676 34 11 168 3 1 17 0 0
Kenya 31,639,091 3164 63 21 316 6 2 32 1 0
Madagascar 16,979,744 1698 34 11 170 3 1 17 0 0
Malawi 11,651,239 1165 23 8 117 2 1 12 0 0
Malaysia 23,092,940 2309 46 15 231 5 2 23 0 0
Mali 11,626,219 1163 23 8 116 2 1 12 0 0
Mexico 104,907,991 10491 210 70 1049 21 7 105 2 1
Morocco 31,689,265 3169 63 21 317 6 2 32 1 0
Mozambique 17,479,266 1748 35 12 175 4 1 17 0 0
Nepal 26,469,569 2647 53 18 265 5 2 26 1 0
Netherlands 16,150,511 1615 32 11 162 3 1 16 0 0
Niger 11,058,590 1106 22 7 111 2 1 11 0 0
Nigeria 133,881,703 13388 268 89 1339 27 9 134 3 1
Korea, North 22,466,481 2247 45 15 225 5 2 22 0 0
Pakistan 150,694,740 15069 301 100 1507 30 10 151 3 1
Peru 28,409,897 2841 57 19 284 6 2 28 1 0
Philippines 84,619,974 8462 169 56 846 17 6 85 2 1
Poland 38,622,660 3862 77 26 386 8 3 39 1 0
Portugal 10,102,022 1010 20 7 101 2 1 10 0 0
Romania 22,271,839 2227 45 15 223 4 1 22 0 0
Russia 144,526,278 14453 289 96 1445 29 10 145 3 1
Saudi Arabia 24,293,844 2429 49 16 243 5 2 24 0 0
Senegal 10,580,307 1058 21 7 106 2 1 11 0 0
South Africa 42,768,678 4277 86 29 428 9 3 43 1 0
Korea, South 48,289,037 4829 97 32 483 10 3 48 1 0
Spain 40,217,413 4022 80 27 402 8 3 40 1 0
Sri Lanka 19,742,439 1974 39 13 197 4 1 20 0 0
Sudan 38,114,160 3811 76 25 381 8 3 38 1 0
Syria 17,585,540 1759 35 12 176 4 1 18 0 0
Taiwan 22,603,000 2260 45 15 226 5 2 23 0 0
Tanzania 35,922,454 3592 72 24 359 7 2 36 1 0
Thailand 64,265,276 6427 129 43 643 13 4 64 1 0
Turkey 68,109,469 6811 136 45 681 14 5 68 1 0
Uganda 25,632,794 2563 51 17 256 5 2 26 1 0
Ukraine 48,055,439 4806 96 32 481 10 3 48 1 0
United Kingdom 60,094,648 6009 120 40 601 12 4 60 1 0
United States 290,342,554 29034 581 194 2903 58 19 290 6 2
Uzbekistan 25,981,647 2598 52 17 260 5 2 26 1 0
Venezuela 24,654,694 2465 49 16 247 5 2 25 1 0
Vietnam 81,624,716 8162 163 54 816 16 5 82 2 1
Yemen 19,349,881 1935 39 13 193 4 1 19 0 0
Yugoslavia 10,655,774 1066 21 7 107 2 1 11 0 0
Zambia 10,307,333 1031 21 7 103 2 1 10 0 0
Zimbabwe 12,576,742 1258 25 8 126 3 1 13 0 0
Other 361,928,497 36193 724 241 3619 72 24 362 7 2
WORLD 6,302,309,691 630231 12605 4202 63023 1260 420 6302 126 42
Your screen may need to be set wide to view this well.
Mike
This really helps me out, and know I see that 1 in 100,000 is probably the best estimation. And to those still saying that 420 is a lot for 'powers' (which I'll probably call these characters when the RPG is done) threatening the world; most of these acquire that level by getting guidance by others. In other words, you need to be a nice guy and get people to want to help you.
I'll be busy this weekend trying to set the whole world up, and then I'll post it on indie-rpgs, but until than, I'm not gonna answer any settings questions.
Mist,
I'm still curious why you feel Godlike isn't a useful precedent. Obviously, the desire to create your own game is a perfectly valid reason for creating your own game, but Godlike sounds very similar and if we knew what you don't like about it it might really help us with assisting you.
Also, Ron's question about the single most fun moment of play is a damn good one. If we were playing, what would that moment be and why?
Quote from: xiombargFirst: Don't worry about popularity.
Rather than worrying about popularity, work instead on making a game you would enjoy playing, making it work, and playtesting it. Your enthusiasm for your own work will translate into sales.
With all due respect, this is not good advice, IMHO. If the designer or publisher's passion alone were able to generate sales, then I would be a wealthy man by now.
The reality is that in the specialty hobby market, one makes money selling things, and one cannot generally sell something that consumers don't want. Sounds ridiculously simple, yes, but it's something that a lot of passionate designers don't often take into consideration.
If you are designing something intended to be sold in the marketplace, then I would strongly suggest keeping an eye toward creating something that will appeal to the broadest market. The reality is that "content," no matter how good, does not sell product, no matter how much we designers wish it were otherwise.
What you're saying is right, but I do not think a RPG can gain high quality without the designer being interested in it. Both of you were right, but only partially I think. Now I have a question to all of you; if you would see a summary of this setting, would it appeal to you? You can wait until I'm finished writing the whole setting idea, but I would like to know.
And balbinus, I answered that question in one of my previous posts.l
Hi Mist,
With respect, no, you have not answered the question about Godlike or any of the other conceptual questions we've posed. You've spent a lot of time talking about your setting and focusing on things like demographics, and in a couple of cases, you've switched the topic of a question into a setting-question.
Please review my earlier post in particular. Bear in mind that I really do not care, at all, about how plausible or detailed your setting is. Focus on the issues of four people hanging out at a role-playing table and tell me, specifically and with details, how they are having fun with your game.
Best,
Ron
Hey Mist, I like the setting so far, and I sympathize with the number problem. By the way, good call on not giving XP for kills.
Seriously, listen to Ron and try to answer his question about the most enjoyable gaming moment. Let me try to help by offering some suggestions. Is it the fast-paced, cinematic combat? The realistic tactics? Finding new and subtle uses for quirky, innovative superpowers? Exploring the reaction of modern society to superpowers (and vice versa)? Or the personal lives and relationships of superpowered people?
Your answer might have nothing to do with any of these things, Mist. Just a few suggestions to get you thinking about what kind of gaming experience you're trying to create. The mechanics and the details of the setting should flow from that.
I really enjoy stories of super-powered people who behave in realistically low-key ways (without capes or tights). I look forward to seeing what you come up with.