Character Creation and Game Background Set-up
When a buddy of mine, JJ, broke his hip last year I began a game with him, set in Fantasy Flight Game's Midnight setting, that I received as a gift but found compelling with some fine changes to the d20 system.
The game turned into mostly a solo game, as players eased in and out of the campaign, but always with his character as the primary motivating force. JJ's character became the main focus, with other characters fading in and out as the players could attend. The situation worked.
Today we swtiched that D&D game over to the Riddle of Steel.
It was interesting watching the players take what was on their D&D character sheets and attempt to translate it. Eventually, I urged them step away from the old sheets and as they become more comfortable with their new TROS skin, they did. Spiritual Attributes, naturally, were what made the characters froma bunch of numbers into a personality. I knew those characters were always there. I had seen them play but it was interesting to put a system to it.
This isn't a D&D SUCKS thread, isn't meant to be in any way. I've run story-centered D&D games with great role-playing and fantastic player driven plot. But I think the no real dungeon crawling, not taking out evil left and right but making surgical strikes against those who immediately threaten the PC's way of life while the threat of becoming as bad as that which we are fighting is always looming could have worked better.
Enter the Riddle.
JJ, who had adventured for months of near-solo gaming, was conflicted as to where to put his SA's. It was interesting to see him narrow it down. We had to cut away what he thought was important to his character to get at what was important to him about that character.
The notable turning point was that he didn't have a Destiny and it is quite obvious to both of us that his character, a hunter from the norse-like north, has big things ahead of him, big plans. JJ had down a Conscience SA and we talked about how much game time he had spent helping people.
He had spent significant amount of time hunting evil Shadowspawn but very little getting between the Shadowspawn and innocents. It wasn't out of character to do so but it just didn't seem to be where JJ put the character's focus when he was at the table.
In the end he took a Destiny. But after he took one, he couldn't decide which one to take, as he had actually written down three possibilities on the side of the character sheet (a great space, character sheet borders, where magic can happen). We discussed it and he wrote down the Destiny that the next adventures seem most greated towards answering, realizing that he can change the words of the Destiny it later if need be.
Barry ported his Elven Channeler over into a Sidhe Sorcerer. He just began to get a grip on how brutally powerful his PC has now become.
Barry started at the beginning, knowing exactly what his Philosophy was while JJ needed to see everything else fall into place before he could put his character's ethos statement into clear, concise words. I had noticed that when making a TROS character before with JJ, that he liked to build everything around a concept and end on the Philosophy, after blueprinting his character with SA's.
The third player took a Sea Elf, a sub-race of Elf that I hadn't read too much on and didn't know that much about. He is a gamer I don't know well and seemed rather shy. We'll see how he does as the game progresses, after the first of the year.
His SA's denoted a rather one-side character but I think I have enough to hook him in with and I am worried that his Philosophy was just any old setnence on his character sheet after he took it from the book. He borrowed my Midnight books, perhaps reading on Sea Elf culture a bit will fan the fires.
Next post: specific SA's, bad names/pot , first combat dream sequence
I'm very interested to see how this turns out. I'm currently running a d20 Midnight game and I've conviced half the group that RoS would be better for what they want to do. Let us know how it goes.
SA's and Philosophies - The Heart of the Matter
Karhoun 'The Knife' Esben - Northerner Huntsman
Philosophy - My last breath will be driving my blade deeper to the heart of the shadows.
Drive - Oath to Destroy the Black Tower of Theros Obisdia (capital city of Evil)
Destiny - To restore Karhoun's Keep for our people of the north
Faith - Honor your ancestors and their gods
Passion - Shadow hunting
Passion - Love - Elaylee - Dark Dryad of the Black Oak
All of these SA's were derived through the past months of play and thus really meant something to JJ. I recommended a passion for hunting, since hunting is when JJ seemed most happy with Karhoun.
Vordon Qell, The Crimson Prince - Elven Sorcerer
Philosophy - The shadow will fall even if I have to kill, rape and pillage to see it done.
Conscience - Help the Poor
Drive - To see the Shadow Fall
Faith - In my Father
Destiny - To Redeem Father
Passion - Preserving nature
Barry often talks about the Darth Vader like dynamic between Vordon and his evil father. Basically, the Big Bad Guy in the game seduced four heroes to the dark side before the Last Battle. These are the Night Kings. Barry's dad is one of them, the greatest of the Elven Wizards and he turned evil.
I'm not sold on his Faith SA in his father at all. I think taht might be a goof on my part, having let that slide.
Baau - Sea Elven Sailor/Soldier (Marine?)
Philosophy - All things are in my own hands.
Drive - To find kidnapped lover
Passion - Love of Aoen (he was stoned and he had just seen Two Towers...hence Eowyn as Aoen)
Passion - Hatred - Shadow
Luck
I really don't have a grip on this character and I'm worried that it will badly muss up my ability to run a good game for this player. He is an incredible combatant with a better pool than either of the two other players.
I'm already thinking about how Vordon's father was the only behind kidnapping Baau's love and seeks to make her his bride. What a fine mess...
I decided that the first combat would be a dream sequence. The characters would realize they were having this incredibly lucid dream about the crossroads they were approaching.
That way they could get a grip on the combat and role-play their characters remembering the cost of creeping up on Tolkienesque Orcs in a sloppy ambush.
I'll write about the combat tomorrow. It is going to get bloody.
Quote from: MonkeyWrenchI'm very interested to see how this turns out. I'm currently running a d20 Midnight game and I've conviced half the group that RoS would be better for what they want to do. Let us know how it goes.
The group I am running this for wasn't sold on d20 as a system. JJ had seen TROS, as he made up a character for a game that never happened and we ran through a test combat with that character. He was all for a change.
If I had a group that wasn't sure about it, I probably wouldn't make the change with an established campaign. JJ's character in particular, isn't nearly as adept at some of the things he could do in the D&D system. In D&D Karhoun was such a good tracker that he seemed to be part hound dog. In TROS, he isn't nearly as adept and I am thinking of bumping his skill down a bit to reflect the character he was a bit. Not sure.
JJ's fine with it and didn't bitch but I'm worried that if I had a player who didnt like the change-over and such a loss in ability happened, there'd be bitchin' and moanin' galore.
Maybe ask them to read this thread?
More on the combat later.
Quote from: PakaJJ's character in particular, isn't nearly as adept at some of the things he could do in the D&D system. In D&D Karhoun was such a good tracker that he seemed to be part hound dog. In TROS, he isn't nearly as adept and I am thinking of bumping his skill down a bit to reflect the character he was a bit. Not sure.
JJ's fine with it and didn't bitch but I'm worried that if I had a player who didnt like the change-over and such a loss in ability happened, there'd be bitchin' and moanin' galore.
When making the characters for the changeover, did you account for experience and change? I mean, from the sounds of it, JJ's character has gone up a couple of levels since starting. Did you account for that, or were the new characters made as starting TROS characters?
Quote from: DaGreatJL
When making the characters for the changeover, did you account for experience and change? I mean, from the sounds of it, JJ's character has gone up a couple of levels since starting. Did you account for that, or were the new characters made as starting TROS characters?
I didn't give him any XP, just let him start with a starting character, a situation I might remedy after giving his character a looking over. It doesn't seem right.
JJ's not bitching but his character just doesn't seem the same at all.
They definitely had the right idea.
In order to try out the combat system of TROS, I declared the first sequence of the game a dream. Their characters realized they were having an incredibly lucid dream and we could all test out the combat without becoming scarred messes and losing characters they had fought to keep alive in the past.
They caught the tracks of a band of Orcs travelling north, moving fast. They had stopped to camp.
The group decided to sneak in while they were sleeping and ambush them, even the numbers. They stealthed their way to a nearby ridge and counted five orcs, one watchman was almost nodding off. The Elven maiden was tied to a log nearby, where the chief of the band was sleeping.
They wisely set the Sea Elf on a ridge with a bow and arrows. His beefy 11 Missile pool would come in quite handy.
Karhoun and an Orc they had freed from a crow's cage, Mad Martigan style crept into the camp to kill the watchman and take out as many Orcs as possible before anyone woke up the wiser.
For some reason, the Elf Sorcerer's player decided to creep into the camp from a different direction. He had no skill in moving stealthily and rolled poorly. The Orc on watch rolled really well and heard something, then saw the Elf right to his left.
Thing went downhill after that.
The Sea Elf on the ridge was hell on wheels with his bow, not even using his SA's, just going for head shots and awlays rolling a 3 or up, hitting faces before they could become a problem.
Vorden took a spear to the chest in the first round, a level 3 wound but he was still up after the initial shock wore off.
Baau was hit with a nasty spear chuck that took him in the guts.
Karhoun dispatched a few Orcs before going head to head with an Orc who managed to take his blade out. They both threw red dice and struck each other simultaneously. They both died of nasty head wounds.
The characters woke up scared and the players walked away from the table wiser.
We discussed what could have been done diferently, how Vorden and Baau both have Glamour Vagaries that went entirely unused. Both of them could have blended into shadows without too much trouble if need be or walked more silently.
The combats will run faster once I get a better grip on the system, which is still rather shaky for me. But now that I've seen how it works, reading over the rules again makes more sense to me. I understand the application of what I'm reading now. I think I'll be more fluent with the system now.
That is about it. We left the table excited, wanting to play again soon. The Riddle will be a good match for Midnight's dark setting.
Sounds exciting. How are handling the Legates and their divine magic? What about the Black Mirrors and their ability to absorb magic? Did you port over the various species/races exactly or did you just "play it by ear"?
I'm interested to hear more because Midnight is one of my favorite settings and RoS is definetly one of my favorite
edit - misspelled words
Quote from: MonkeyWrenchSounds exciting. How are handling the Legates and their divine magic? What about the Black Mirrors and their ability to absorb magic? Did you port over the various species/races exactly or did you just "play it by ear"?
Divine magic I'm just avoiding all together. Legates are just like Sorcerers only they don't age when they cast. However, Izrador can return their aging to them at will.
Black Mirrors will make aging more painful and casting more difficult, the PC will definitely know they've given this time off of their life to a Dark God.
I'm just playing it by ear with the races, yeah.
If yer interested I write a Story Hour for the game here:
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=71645
It is a more novel-like approach, unlike the Actual Play here where I think about system and such.
Double Post - Sorry
We had a marathon 10 hour session tonight and it was really brilliant.
First we went over the combat system a bit more and I let the players know some areas where I made mistakes last week.
More on this later. I am exhausted and need to drive to New Jersey tomorrow morning.
We all agreed that changing systems worked. Drift issues have been laid to rest as we hit our SA's and ambush Orcs. Fun, fun stuff.
QuoteJJ, who had adventured for months of near-solo gaming, was conflicted as to where to put his SA's. It was interesting to see him narrow it down. We had to cut away what he thought was important to his character to get at what was important to him about that character.
That's a great distinction - not what is important to the character, but what's important to the player about the character. Cool. I just wanted to thank you for that. Seems to me it could have implications for many games.
Quote from: Rob MacDougallQuoteJJ, who had adventured for months of near-solo gaming, was conflicted as to where to put his SA's. It was interesting to see him narrow it down. We had to cut away what he thought was important to his character to get at what was important to him about that character.
That's a great distinction - not what is important to the character, but what's important to the player about the character. Cool. I just wanted to thank you for that. Seems to me it could have implications for many games.
This is a tremendous point that I cannot say enough. It has improved my game table vibe to an incredible degree.
I created an in-game mechanic in which there are these powerful Oath Rooms scattered around the continent. The P.C.'s have all sworn powerful oaths to destroy the Shadow in such a room. When you have sworn this oath you can tell when others have done so and when another has broken it they are instantly out of the loop.
This allows the players to bring in new PC's in the event of a death, or bring in new players from out of town or what have you. The world is so dark and insidious, I wanted the players to be able to trust each other, if nothing else.
the last Riddle of Midnight game ended with the P.C.'s in a relatively safe keep, all wanting to go in different directions. A dragon, friendly to their cause, had held the keep for a century...long story.
The Actual Play part of the story is that I mentioned that we could split up the party and create NPC's, summoned by the Dragon through a tangible in-game magic that was established in previous plot. The Dragon would summon folk to help the P.C.'s on their quest and through the Oath Rooms summon reliable help.
One of the players talked about the option of splitting up as if it couldn't happen, it wasn't feasible. I put forth that the game was ours and we should go where the story takes us. Their SA's are pulling them apart. Perhaps when their quests are finished, their paths will lead together once again.
I look back and I am unsure if this is relevant to the original point or not but here it is.
I should talk about my group a little bit.
Padric is new to me, joined because he was the roommate of the guy whose housewe game at. We both felt each other out and gained that all important trust. He digs the combat system.
JJ was the guy I was running this campaign for as a solo game and now it is a group thing. He started gaming with Star Frontiers and such in junior high and has played alot of World of Darkness and some Ars Magica.
Barry, like JJ, played in an Ars Magica game I ran years ago. Now his main gaming is Rifts and World of Darkness. He and JJ were in the best game I have ever run and in that game, Barry ran one of the most fully realized characters I've ever seen at the table. Neat stuff, alot of promise in this group.
We gamed for ten hours or so and used quite a bit of magic. I've allowed the player to use Summoning to contact spirits, knowing full well that this would allow for their foot in the door if it were incredibly powerful creature.
The pieces of the Riddle are lining up with Midnight quite well. I've adopted imagery of cold and despair with the aging, since the Sauron Figure is called the Shadow in the North.
The Shadow, unbeknownst so far, to the players, has set up these black mirriors in its churches and cathedrals, with which it is sucking magic out of the continent. When the Elven Wizard aged, he was miles away from a mirror but on a ridge and could see the fortress where the mirror was kept. I descripted the sands of his life running out towards that keep but dispersing before it could reach it.
The PC's have adopted a policy of ambush at all times and Orcs are getting the respect they deserve as combatants.
Skill rolls seemed to be made much of the time, which is fine. I am all for the PC's being good at what they are doing. I found that even with 7, 8 or 9 skill levels they were successful more times then not. When their skills went up through use they were really impressed with how that worked, as was I.
SA's, as they should, ruled the day. The end of the adventure found the PC's in a safe spot at last, a place they could rest. It was clear their SA's were pulling them in different directions. We discussed it out of game and decided to split the party, everyone making new characters to go with each party to their different destinations.
I cannot write enough about SA's. They are an adventure blueprint. They are a character blueprint. They offer Bang suggestions, insuring that the plot hooks are barbed and lethal, snaring players' attention. They are a written request from player to Seneschal saying, "I want this."
Quote from new player: "So we get experience points for role-playing?"
Me: "Yes, you do."
Player: "Holy shit, that is cool."
I put plastic tabs on the relevant pages of my Riddle book, about four for character creation, a few for Sorcerery and a bunch for the damage tables and weapons tables, for easier navigation. Between that and Driftwood's awesome PDF DM's screen, which I have slid into my two Masterscreens, it has sped up my page flipping to keep the game's pace brisk.
The Sorcery system in TROS is nice, very fast and loose, but with risk, some bite.
I've allowed Summoning to be used to also contact spirits and it has allowed for some great role-playing along with some aging. The use of the pool, setting aside some for the casting and some to combat aging is brilliant.
It sounds like it's working out great for you. Were your players excited or nervous about switching systems? It sounds like they're fairly open-minded about that sort of thing.
You mentioned something about the Mirrors draining magic energy, but do they also drain life force as well. Is Izrador gathering the life energy of channellers world wide to help him pierce the Veil? On a similar note do Astari drain Spell Pool dice or life energy?
It's good to hear that the SAs are really driving the game and helping your players get excited about their characters.
Quote from: MonkeyWrenchIt sounds like it's working out great for you. Were your players excited or nervous about switching systems? It sounds like they're fairly open-minded about that sort of thing.
They are really open minded. The d20 system wasn't particularly working for us. The last game two of the players gamed with me in was Ars MAgica and we missed that kind of magic system. I had showed JJ the system, ran him through a combat and had made PC's with Barry and JJ for a game that never happened.
The Ars Magica game was a fantastic gaming experience and we really trust each other, know where we're all going with this and what we want.
Quote from: MonkeyWrenchYou mentioned something about the Mirrors draining magic energy, but do they also drain life force as well. Is Izrador gathering the life energy of channellers world wide to help him pierce the Veil? On a similar note do Astari drain Spell Pool dice or life energy?
Yes, Izrador is gathering both life energy and magic. I'll have to re-read what Black Mirrors exactly do to make the rules up for TROS. SHoudn't be too hard.
Yes, sniffer demons will drain some spell dice along with their damage, I figure something like one die of SP for every level of damage.
Quote from: MonkeyWrenchIt's good to hear that the SAs are really driving the game and helping your players get excited about their characters.
They are sold on the SA system and as I explained it, using Inigo Montoya as a guideline. They really watched it workand are enjoying it immsensely.
Glad to see you on these boards also, Paka. Really liked you Enworld SH and I see that you are behind on that ;)
Your SH got me interested in TROS and we playtested the Quickstart Rules last night. We all liked the deadliness and the characters were intrigued by the SA's.
We can't wait to get the Real Rules and play. More than likely we will run using HarnWorld or the TROS homebrew.
Quote from: Sigurth
We can't wait to get the Real Rules and play. More than likely we will run using HarnWorld or the TROS homebrew.
I'm glad to hear that another convert to the Riddle has been made via me. Pleased as punch to hear that.
Check out the Forge, browse around and look over the TROS links in the Riddle's forums. The intro links are pretty valuable and helped alot in my running a game and coming up with rules twinks here and there.
In Midnight, there is an addition to the normal d20 rules called Heroic Paths. These are paths that give characters new powers at each level, in a theme, like Northborn or Shadowborn or Painless, etc.
My PC's already had chosen their Heroic Paths and they had become a part of their characters. So, I added a sixth slot to Spiritual Attributes. The Heroic Path became more like a header in Sorcerer.
It was at 5 at the beginning of every session but couldn't be used for character improvement, only for dice in a situation that fell under the perview of the Path. The PC's in my game are Ironblood, Healer and Seaborn. The places where the dice will come into play are fairly obvious and given that Midnight is a truly brutal, almost Mad Max meets Tolkien kind of world, I don't feel the least bit bad in giving them more dice to cope with the Shadow.
How different is the Heroic Path from the Destiny?
Sorry for intruding into this thread with a tangental question.
I've been waffling on Midnight as a setting for a while. On the surface it looks pretty much like "Middle Earth if Sauron had Won" with the seriel numbers filed off.
My question are these.
1) Is this a fair or unfair assessment. Having played in the world now how do you rate the worthiness of the setting as something worth spending money on.
2) An aspect I really found intriguing are the Hero Paths. How developed are these. Are they just another way to get "power ups" or is there actually some good setting tie in with these that make them more than a source of Kewl Powerz. Is there any place you know where all 20 are summarized?
Thanks, sorry for the tangent.
Quote from: SigurthHow different is the Heroic Path from the Destiny?
A Heroic Path is more of what powers are in the character's blood, rather than a path the player wants the character to head down.
Quote from: ValamirSorry for intruding into this thread with a tangental question.
I've been waffling on Midnight as a setting for a while. On the surface it looks pretty much like "Middle Earth if Sauron had Won" with the seriel numbers filed off.
My question are these.
1) Is this a fair or unfair assessment. Having played in the world now how do you rate the worthiness of the setting as something worth spending money on.
2) An aspect I really found intriguing are the Hero Paths. How developed are these. Are they just another way to get "power ups" or is there actually some good setting tie in with these that make them more than a source of Kewl Powerz. Is there any place you know where all 20 are summarized?
Thanks, sorry for the tangent.
1) I think it more or less is Middle Earth, Sauron won with the serial numbers filed off. I also think it is that premise done well. I like the choices they made and the way they evoke tone. I lost my taste for d20 but I found their rules choices for d20 quite good.
I got Midnight as a gift and have since bought every book they've come out with. They are now making, in my opinion, too many books. I like my white space on the map and they are beginning to fill in blanks I like to fill in on my own.
I think Fantasy Flight Games puts together a nice fantasy world. The presentation and writing are solid. I think it is a worthy d20 buy. Keeping in mind that I hate published worlds. Making a homebrew, as a collaborative act with the players, is half of the fun of a game to me. This campaign just clicked with me, though and the players took to it.
2) On Midnight boards and a forum there have been theories about Heroic Paths but I don't believe they are ever explained in the text. Let me get back to you on that when I have more time.
I think Paths are more of a kewl powerz thing, in a world where player desperately need them. I'm not sure where all 20 are summarized but I'll search around a bit on www.againsttheshadow.org when I have a chance.
QuoteI think it more or less is Middle Earth, Sauron won with the serial numbers filed off. I also think it is that premise done well. I like the choices they made and the way they evoke tone.
So it stands up on its own, with a depth and interest that goes beyond being an anticlone?..it looked pretty interesting, but I haven't been able to kit passed the cynic telling me I'd be paying money for something I could kit bash together in a couple of hours.
I guess that's probably a stupid question, since you're playing you must think so. Perhaps when you have time you could PM your thoughts on what works and doesn't work about the setting.
Thanks.
SA's brought the group to an interesting place during my last game.
The party came to one of their rare safe spots, a place to rest for a while with food and shelter. In the Midnight setting, you can almost feel the players sigh in relief when a place to rest and not fear the next Orc attack comes.
Looking at their SA's the players realized they all wanted to go in vastly different directions. No, not vastly different...entirely different. in the end, two of the three players ended up going north while the third stayed behind in an effort to go south.
Splitting time up just didn't make sense.
This is what we did.
The odd man out made up a character. He will get to keep all insight points, put them towards his main character.
The other two players will make up traveling companion when we switch to his characer's adventures. Likewise, they will get to keep their insight with their new character. The new characters are made just like a starting character...shite. I should have allowed them to use their accrued insight.
Hmm.
This is yet another way TROS has changed a campaign that last year was being played with the D&D system. In D&D, JJ's character would have gone with them and would have had no real reason to go there. JJ would have been rather shiftless.
I really had no plot for him on this adventure. The other character who went, I managed to hook his SA's into the adventure but I flat out told JJ that I had nothing for his character if he headed north.
It worked, story served, players happy, gaming on with the RPG with an edge.