R-Maps in Nobilis

[DannyK]

OK, I'm new to the Forge, so excuse me if this topic is inappropriate.

I've been developing a campaign for Nobilis, and was just adding the finishing touches when I discovered Sorcerer.  So naturally, I'm planning to try adding some Narrativist flash, since Nobilis seems to have a Narrativist feeling anyway.  I've been trying to get my players to grok "Story Now!", and trying to empower them as co-creators, and use Bangs, and all that stuff.  By the way, the game is mostly set in Seattle, which in this campaign has a very dense population of Nobles with several angelic Chancels tucked into various neighborhoods.  Ideally, there should be lots of gaming potential right there in town, with only occasional field trips onto the World Ash

And, as the subject header suggests, I'm working on an R-map.  In a way, this is very easy, because Nobilis enforces a family-like structure on the characters (all the PC's are "siblings" under a godlike Imperator).  Also, two of my three players came up with character concepts that involved them being recently enNobled after the previous Powers of their Estates were killed.  So that's the easy part -- everybody's got a pseudo-family, and I can draw the dead Nobles as part of the R-map.  I think this part is going to work great -- there's going to be a lot of emotional power in the reaction of NPC's to the "replacements".

Now, for the tricky part I need help with.  I've developed a group of NPC Imperators and Familias for the setting, but when I draw them, it looks lots of separate little family trees, with only a few cross-links.  I've worked in some story about how such-and-such Imperator is hostile to the PC's, and so-and-so is helpful, but there isn't much that shows up on an R-map.  So, I'm wondering if I should try to cross-link more, making some NPC's married to others, and so on.   This might add some emotional "juice" to the setting, but I don't want to make this Peyton Place,either.  

Any thoughts?

Danny

[bluegargantua]

Now, for the tricky part I need help with.  I've developed a group of NPC Imperators and Familias for the setting, but when I draw them, it looks lots of separate little family trees, with only a few cross-links.  I've worked in some story about how such-and-such Imperator is hostile to the PC's, and so-and-so is helpful, but there isn't much that shows up on an R-map.  So, I'm wondering if I should try to cross-link more, making some NPC's married to others, and so on.   This might add some emotional "juice" to the setting, but I don't want to make this Peyton Place,either.  

Any thoughts?

 OK, a couple of easy ones are:

 Powers of an opposing faction.
 Powers of an opposing Estate.

 These will naturally be enemies of your PCs but I'm expecting you've probably got a fair amount of that going on already.  

 Another easy hook for the R-map are Anchors.  Not only are Anchors important to PCs, but they also *are* the PCs when they take over.  So how about NPCs who have designs on Anchors, or who affect the Anchors through their actions.  If there's a PC with an artist for an Anchor and an enemy power takes away their sight (even by accident), there's a good link.

 Powers can't marry, but illicit love is one of the big themes in the game so feel free to elaborate as necessary.

 Finally, Familia provide a lot of inter-PC conflict and there can be rivalries with NPC Familia, but don't overlook other social structures.  Consider asking your players to each come up with 2-3 groups that their PC is associated with.  This could be something grand like an Nobilis Militia to hunt down Excrucians, or something trivial like a bunch of Powers who get together for Poker on Wednesday nights, or something hostile to them, like a group of Prankster Powers out to humiliate the PC.  Have the PCs describe one or two people in the group who stand out.  Then see how you can work those groups back into the R-Map you've created.  Who might be part of these groups and how would they feel about the PCs?  

 Anyway, I hope some of this has been useful, Nobilis rocks on toast.  I posted  http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=8294">some other thoughts about Nobilis here which you may find helpful.

later
Tom

[DannyK]

Thanks for the help.  After thinking about it a couple days, I think I may have been overly concerned.  The players, so far, seem much more interested in developing/interacting with the Chancel inhabitants.

It's an open Chancel, actually a deteriorating mall in downtown Seattle.  One of the players got the idea that the top level would be fairly mundane, and as you go down , things get shabbier and more magical.  I'm trying to get all the players to contribute ideas for oddball shops and NPC's, and they seem to be really enjoying this part.  

It strikes me now that a fair bit of the game may revolve around Chancel life, and that the whole superstructure of NPC Nobles and Imperators may be "off camera" most of the time.  

DannyK
P.S. Are you sure powers can't marry?  Allowing them to marry but not to love sets up a whole set of Jane Austen-like conflicts which sound fun to me.

[bluegargantua]

P.S. Are you sure powers can't marry?  Allowing them to marry but not to love sets up a whole set of Jane Austen-like conflicts which sound fun to me.

 Ignore my dogma.

 It's your game, so do whatever seems fun.  My flip response comes from that whole "Love is illegal" rule that Lord Entropy lays down.  But there are plenty of loveless or arranged or political marriages.  It's even more fun if powers genuinely fall in love and get married for the express purpose of flouting the law.

 But, if you do go this route with the Marriage thing, you might consider making sure there's a Power of Marriage in the game.  Considering all the real world stuff going on with Marriage right now, echoing some of that in the game could be really interesting.

later
Tom

[DannyK]

That's it?  Every new thread about "My D&D group sucks" gets more replies than this.  Maybe it's my aftershave. <sniff, sniff>  I'll still let y'all know how things worked out -- the players have finally had enough of tinkering with Chancel design, and we start play this weekend!

DannyK

[clehrich]

So, I'm wondering if I should try to cross-link more, making some NPC's married to others, and so on.   This might add some emotional "juice" to the setting, but I don't want to make this Peyton Place,either.

Not knowing Nobilis well, I can't comment on the details of marriage, but my inclination is to focus on your remark that you don't want Peyton Place.

Why not?

No, seriously.  I'm something of a proponent of more soap-opera-style gaming, these days, and whether you like soaps or not you have to admit they seem addictive to lots of viewers.  If you actually like the characters (because they're yours, for example), the constant drama of everyone having secrets and sleeping with each other and having each others' babies makes for a really intense kind of gaming.  You might check out the old show Dark Shadows for something that really isn't about the usual "who loves whom?" soap themes, but is still a soap: the themes are more along the lines of, "Who's been enslaved by whom?" "When will they realize that this dude is a vampire?" "Why doesn't anyone realize that she killed her husband?" And so on.

Let 'er rip, man.  Don't be put off by Peyton Place and so on just because they're sentimental.  That's a thematic choice, not a structural one.  If everyone is really focused on everyone else because everyone is sleeping with or trying to kill everyone else, you've got one very intense game.  I must say that I like the idea that nobody can be married and in love with their spouses; this ensures that every relationship can have at least three other people: the spouse, the lover, and the spouse's lover.  Now add in the possibility that various people here will start to hate one another over such issues, add blackmail and rampant evil, and you're good to go.

Chris Lehrich

[GreatWolf]

As someone who *does* know Nobilis, I must heartily concur with Chris.  The Windflower Law exists purely as an excuse for high melodrama.  The point of the law (metagame) is to break it.  It's like the Prime Directive in Star Trek.  ;-)

My first Nobilis game was kicked into its climactic moment through a violation of the Windflower Law (and an Excrucian snitching out the PC to the Locust Court), which forced all the characters to make some difficult choices.  The PC who violated the law had to choose between the honor of her Imperator and the man who she loved.  She chose to run away with him, abandoning her Imperator and Familia while a Strategist net was closing around them.  One of the other Nobles helped her to escape and then committed ritual suicide to expiate his shame.  The one remaining Noble was then forced to humble herself and beg for assistance from a Familia of Dark Nobles who hated her....

Seth Ben-Ezra
Great Wolf

[Minx]

As someone who *does* know Nobilis, I must heartily concur with Chris.  The Windflower Law exists purely as an excuse for high melodrama.  The point of the law (metagame) is to break it.  It's like the Prime Directive in Star Trek.  ;-)

My first Nobilis game was kicked into its climactic moment through a violation of the Windflower Law (and an Excrucian snitching out the PC to the Locust Court), which forced all the characters to make some difficult choices.  The PC who violated the law had to choose between the honor of her Imperator and the man who she loved.  She chose to run away with him, abandoning her Imperator and Familia while a Strategist net was closing around them.  One of the other Nobles helped her to escape and then committed ritual suicide to expiate his shame.  The one remaining Noble was then forced to humble herself and beg for assistance from a Familia of Dark Nobles who hated her....

Seth Ben-Ezra
Great Wolf

Nice... :D

M

[neelk]

As someone who *does* know Nobilis, I must heartily concur with Chris.  The Windflower Law exists purely as an excuse for high melodrama.  The point of the law (metagame) is to break it.  It's like the Prime Directive in Star Trek.  

100% agreement. In fact, one very good idea is to ask the players during character creation which of the Windflower Laws they want their PC to break. Everything from punishing the innocent, to falling in love, to respecting basic human dignity is illegal under Lord Entropy's  law.

That's why I like the idea of having marriage be common among Nobles. Every Noble has a) to be able to prove in court that they don't love their husband or wife, and even better b) if the marriages were arranged by Imperators, it is also illegal to have lovers or fail to consumate it. Of course, since Nobles are human, they are going to try and get around these rules, which opens up scope for blackmail, treachery, and general badness/fun. Taking this route will almost certainly de-foreground the other laws of the Code Fidelitas (such as the rule of Man or the Golden Rule), however, since keeping the cruel and inhuman dictat of the Imperators OUT of their personal lives will be a very high priority for almost all remotely sane PCs. If you or your players want to focus on the distance that miraculous power creates between humanity and the PCs, and the strain this puts on their ethics, then this isn't such a good idea.

[DannyK]

Thanks for the encouragement, guys.  

After initial trepidation, I had much fun hooking NPC's up together, and now one is about to ask a PC for help in planning his upcoming wedding.  I'm planning to call the next story arc "Four funerals and a wedding", if I can come up with enough dead people.
:)

DannyK

[TonyLB]

You can have funerals for the two guys who have been enNobled away from their previous lives.  It'd be sort of touching, really.  Folks can deliver their own eulogies.

In terms of r-Maps, I just finished reading the discussion about how to build epic r-Maps, where they actually recommend exactly the style that you're lamenting:  starting off with multiple isolated clusters, then giving them a little nudge toward each other and seeing how connections form and break and solidify.  So maybe you're much better off than you thought you were.

Feels sort of odd commenting on a game I'm playing in :-)[/i]