Direct Me to the Best System

[LeeRaulin]

I'll start off on a tangent.  Hello everyone.  I just found this site and it looks really interesting.  It seems there are others who share my absurd fascination with designing the perfect role playing system.  Maybe I'm not a freak after all.  I spend more time trying to tweak game mechanics than I ever do coming up with stories or actually role-playing, which is ironic because I want a set of rules that lend themselves to staying in the backround.

So I've been toying around with some ideas, but why reinvent the wheel?  I'll tell you what I want in a roleplaying system and maybe you can point me in the direction of similar systems that already exists or that people are working on.

My favorite systems are White Wolf & GURPS.

White Wolf/Storytelling System
I love how everything is rated on a scale that is descriptive.  Such a stat means you are exactly yay good.  (Although I would like more gradation.)  I like the stat + attribute thing, so that both are equally important.  I like their health level system a million times more than hit points.  I really like how loose it is.  I want a rule system like this one, that is provides loose structure and supports storytelling, rather than being a self-suffient "game" that you could just as easily play with a computor or as a board game.  The few problems I have with it is how damage is handled and the weird die probabilities that you have to be a freakin statistician to calculate.  I'd like to roll everything on percentile die and have the probabilities right out in the open.  (But then how to you settle opposed rolls?)  Combat:  I think WW combat is the most interesting and fun.  I don't like how they handle damage.  There is an extraneous element of randomness.  Damage should be a direct result of how hard you hit (str), where (degree of success on attack roll) and with what (weapon), not how hard, where, with what + ?  Also they make it really hard to be the sort of badass who is so good and agile that he never gets hit (unless you full dodge all the time and never attack).

GURPS
I love the idea of GURPS.  A generic system that is based on realism so that it can reflect any situation is exactly what I am going for.  Its just the mechanics I don't like.  This is trivial, but I don't like rolling 3d6 for resolution.  Plus I'd like to know what the probabilities actually are.  The main thing that gets me though is how skills are based directly on stats.  You can buy a skill higher or lower, but in general you either have it or you don't.  If you have a high governing attribute you can learn it and be really good overnight.  Too much like the 2nd Ed. AD&D proficiency system.  I want skills that are defined on a scale that tells me in concrete terms how good I am.  Combat:  I really like parrying being a normal part of combat resolution that everyone gets to attempt at least once.

D&D
I think D&D (3rd) is retarded.  (Don't get me started on 2nd.)  My main issues with it are the class, level and hit point system.  I don't like their ability modifiers either: they matter a hell of a lot at low levels but become increasingly less significant.  At least they finally let you increase attributes, but still not as much as I'd like.  What the hell is a clumsy 20th level fighter, for example?  What does it mean to be a high level character w/ crummy stats in general, for that matter?  Entirely plausable w/ D&D rules but the concept boggles my mind.  Finally, its too much of a "game" rather than a system that supports storytelling.  I find this restrictive.  I do like their attribute scale however.

So my ideal system would be:
*Skill based.  Characters should be defined by their attributes and skills, which are rated on scales that clearly translate into descriptive terms.  No class/level bullshit.
*Not abstract.  I want the rules to reflect rather than dictate the fictional reality.  For example, D&D has abstract rules which say what can and can't happen in rule terms, which you then have to interpret (sometimes by stretching the imagination a bit) into story terms.  Another example of what I mean:  In Exalted you make an successful attack and roll dice for damage.  Sometimes a character will score what the rules define as a perfect strike, and it will end up causing no damage.  Or someone has a breastplate made of exceptional material which makes him virtually untouchable to normal assailants, even though the damn thing covers 25% of his body at best.  Then you have to alter story reality to accomidate the rules.  I don't like that.

What I want to do with this system:
Like I said, I want it to be a support for storytelling.  The sort of stories I want to tell...  I want to roleplay action movies.  Much as I'm into the "storytelling" as opposed to the "gameplaying" style, fights scenes are my favorite thing to roleplay.  But I study martial arts so I think I can use common sense to storytell a fight scene with much more realism AND coolness than any abstract game system ever could, so I want a system like White Wolf's that provides a loose enough framework to support this.

[montag]

I'll spare you the rant on "this isn't roleplayers anonymous" and the abuse of the term "storyteller" and all that other stuff. You'll find out if you stick around, and if you don't it doesn't matter ;)
Going by your specifications, you might want to take a look at FUDGE and FATE and possibly the Fading Suns System.
There's certainly more systems out there, that do what you want, but these are the only one's I can think of right now.
Good luck

[daMoose_Neo]

Write one?
Read over the boards...even if you don't write one for publication, there are a lot of cool mechanics and things around here. As long as you're not ripping off someone elses works to bolster your own, I imagine many of the designers wouldn't have a problem if you cobbled together a system based on what you considered the best mechanics here. You know what you want, you know how you want to do it. Someone elses system might come close, but when you can write your own stuff you don't neccesarily need to settle for 'close'.

[Alan]

Hi LeeRaulin,

Welcome to the Forge.  

You might want to read the policy stickies at the top of this and other forums before posting.  The Forge is stricter than many RPG forums about where things are posted and what content is ok.  Indie Design is only for discussions about a game you're actually designing with serious intent to finish.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi LeeRaulin,

I am the moderator of the general forums of the Forge, and I'll start by saying, welcome!

I'll continue with this: "Alan's right." It's not OK to post in this forum about a game you might like to write someday. You need to have something that's semi-playable available for us to read, or even to try out ourselves. If you do have something like that, then let us know! And we can keep discussing it here.

But if you don't, then how does this sound: spend some time reading threads here and there around the Forge, and check out some of the articles and reviews. Get an idea for what parts of the site are most interesting to you, and don't feel like you have to socialize and post in order to "be here."

Then, when you post, you'll really have something to say, in the right place, and then a whole bunch of people will almost certainly be interested in interacting with you about it.

Best,
Ron

[LeeRaulin]

Thanks for the clarification.  Sorry for the inappropriate post.

[Steven Bishop]

I'm not claiming to know much about anything, nor am I claiming that I've been around the Forge even remotely long enough to make great suggestions, but I might have one.  You should check out Harn Master.  You probably won't like the skills and stats system because skills are directly proportional to your stats, but you might like the combat system.  The combat system is HEAVILY detailed in where you hit and how damage is related to your attack success and the enemies dodge success.

[TerroX]

well with alternity http://alternity.net/ you get sucess ratings on a roll, - Failure, Ordinary, Good, Amazing.

you roll a d20 control die and modify that with the difficulty of the action using another die on a scale, (e.g plus or minus any other die like +d6 or -d8 etc)

all skills have ranks, as they go up some have benefits.
character creation uses a point system, not random

everything is optional
out of print - no pressure to buy the latest products :-)

read the basic rules free anyway, http://alternity.net/downloads.php

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

Since we're not discussing a specific game under construction, this thread must now be closed.

Best,
Ron