What is a Scene

[Jere]

Is there a good guide to scenes. What they are, how to handle them, various tools? It seems the type of thing someone on or affiliated with the Forge would have put together.

Thanks

Jere

[greyorm]

Here's what I say in ORX about how to judge a Scene, though, of course, this really only applies to ORX. Hopefully you'll find some thoughts or points of interest within (because I had serious trouble trying to define "Scene" myself, until I came up with my definition by mechanics for it).

Scenes

If Conflicts are the "what" of Orx, then Scenes are the "where."

All play in Orx is divided into Scenes, and Scenes are built around Conflicts. Most Scenes in Orx will include, at a minimum, three Conflicts, and likely more, depending on the number of dice the gamemaster spends during the Scene to create it. This allows enough time for the orcs to really put their feet in it, and makes any injuries they sustain troublesome.

The number of dice the gamemaster uses to oppose the orcs is what determines the abstract "length" of the Scene; there are usually three dice: a d10, a d8, and a d6, though the exact number and kind of dice a gamemaster receives and can use is detailed further below.

Time-wise, a specific Scene is as long or as short as it needs to be; it might comprise an entire battle, or just one specific melee in the greater battle. It all depends on how the current location and situation work into the session, and how many obstacles the gamemaster can throw at the orcs. Due to these factors, there is no specific period of time that defines the length of the Scene.

Nor should Scenes be confused with restrictions to a specific location or setting. Depending on the needs of the game at any given point, a Scene can consist of anything from a single room or specific spot on the street, to a broad generalized location such as an entire hotel and a few city blocks. The scope of a Scene's setting simply depends on the nature of the Conflicts in the Scene.

Grraka is sitting in a small room in the back of a seedy bar, trying to procure a deal with Shumgor, the half-ogre captain of the Black City's guard force. Depending on what occurs, the location of the Scene might expand to include the entire bar – say, for example, Grraka starts a fight, which then explodes into the rest of the establishment – or into a chase on the street(s) outside!

If you're having trouble wrapping your mind around these concepts, great! You're already thinking like an orc...that is to say, barely!

Don't worry too much about the division of one Scene from another making perfect literary sense – they are abstract units of measurement utilized for mechanical purposes.

Scenes are used as a measure with which to limit the number of times a player can do certain things, such as using Descriptors, borrowing Fate, and so forth; and Scenes are also used to measure the length certain effects remain, such as the injury caused to Stats.

For example, to reach the human king in a brawling melee, in order to kill him, the orcs might have to get through the mass of combatants without getting hurt (gamemaster spends: d8), face off against the king's guards (gamemaster spends: d10), and finally attack the king himself (gamemaster spends: d6).  Assuming the gamemaster spends no more dice to create another Conflict, and the orcs do not squabble amongst themselves, the Scene is now over.

Ultimately, the utility of the Scene is to define the period during which an orc remains affected by certain penalties or bonuses, and to serve as a limit on the ability of a player to declare the use of certain mechanical opportunities in the system (such as the use of Fate, Descriptors, Complications, and so forth).

[John Kim]

Is there a good guide to scenes. What they are, how to handle them, various tools? It seems the type of thing someone on or affiliated with the Forge would have put together.

It's really a good question.  In plays, a scene is defined by when there is no one on stage, or curtain drop or open set change.  In movies, it is defined as shots in a single location and continuous in time.  There are definitely grey areas like if the action is continuous across many different locations.  It is also true that there are times in a movie which are not scenes: like montage or narration.  

In written or spoken stories, the distinction gets much fuzzier -- because there is no firm dividing line between stuff happening 'on-screen' and stuff which is just referred to (i.e. the equivalent of montage or narration in film).  Theory of written narrative doesn't use the idea of "scene" as much.  

There can be some tricky aspects to scenes and scene mechanics.  I remember the first time I played Vampire, and I asked "How long can I stay invisible?"  to which the answer was "One scene per willpower point."  I digested that for a moment, and asked "From my character's point of view, how long can I stay invisible?" -- i.e. not an exact number, but just a basic idea of how long and what it depended on.  The GM at that point explained that I was asking the wrong question and repeated the metagame definition.  But for me it punched a gaping hole in my suspension-of-disbelief, since the duration could vary vastly depending on, say, whether the people around were just chit-chatting or whether they are talking about plot-significant material.

[contracycle]

I think the Vamp version may have worked if thewre was some system for scene-building as it were.

Let me put it like this: a reasonable answer might have been "forever but I assume you turn it off between scenes".  That is, if this were a TV series, we may well have a character who can go invisible due to some power, but we also expect they will not be permanently invisible any more than we expect spiderman to be permanently dressed in his suit.  For large part of their screen time, they will not be invisible - but, unless there is a particular reason, there is usually no duration to the special power.  But of course that does not matter, becuase ALL time is scene-time, not continuous time.

The problem is that RPG's are geared by default to continuous time.  No TV producer has to deal with a player asking if they can be invisible long enough to accomplish something that would take a very long time to accomplish.  I think if a game is to be scene based, it has to structure the actual play between the participants into scenes, meaningful Scenes not just where play went next.

[Paganini]

Get Trollbabe. Read it. The Questing Beast is good too.

[xiombarg]

See, the problem with the Vampire example isn't the use of "scene" as a duration, but with the GM.

The correct answer to your very Sim question is: "It lasts anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours, depending on how much effort you put into it. Your character isn't sure exactlly how long he can do it -- it's a mysterious supernatural power, it hasn't been measured and timed in a scientific way. I mean, do you know exactly how long you could run if you pushed yourself? What if you had to run for your life? And that isn't even a mysterious supernatural power that you don't fully understand. Real life isn't exact, and neither is this. The Willpower expenditure indicates you pushing yourself. It might even cut out on you for no reason at a random moment, unless you concentrate every so often, again represented by a Willpower point. The powers of Caine are capicious at best. Out-of-character, the duration varies by dramatic neccessity, hence scenes."

That's (IMHO) the correct stock answer for such questions regarding "duration" for any scene-based White Wolf power.

But I digress. I certainly agree that White Wolf's games could do with a better definition of "scene" than relying on people's intuition, as picked up from movies and fiction.

[John Kim]

See, the problem with the Vampire example isn't the use of "scene" as a duration, but with the GM.

The correct answer to your very Sim question is: "It lasts anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours, depending on how much effort you put into it. Your character isn't sure exactlly how long he can do it -- it's a mysterious supernatural power, it hasn't been measured and timed in a scientific way. I mean, do you know exactly how long you could run if you pushed yourself? What if you had to run for your life? And that isn't even a mysterious supernatural power that you don't fully understand. Real life isn't exact, and neither is this. The Willpower expenditure indicates you pushing yourself. It might even cut out on you for no reason at a random moment, unless you concentrate every so often, again represented by a Willpower point. The powers of Caine are capicious at best. Out-of-character, the duration varies by dramatic neccessity, hence scenes."

I already dismissed the idea that this is about an exact answer.  I mean, I do have some idea how long I could run if I pushed myself, having run in a marathon.  More importantly, I know what it depends on: how in-shape I am, how well-rested I am, the pace at which I run, and so forth.  I can't given precise numbers -- but I can give a rough idea for a given set of circumstances (say to within a factor of 2 or 3).  It's not a question of exactness -- it's a question of having any concept at all.  

Turning invisible is something which my character has done regularly for hundreds of years.  If it really is something capricious which one can't depend on, then it has serious implications for my character (a Nosferatu) because he absolutely relies on in order to move about in the city.  The capricious, mysterious answer works -- but it has implications for how my character will act.  In short, I don't consider the in-character answer to be dispensible or trivially interpretted from saying "scene".