Movement in combat & pain & other stuff :)

[Zhores]

I'm not sure the book answers these questions.. atleast there's some confusion in our group.
How do you handle movement in combat?
How long does it take?
Do you use terrain rolls for it?
How does the "battle" skill affect it, if at all?
How does pain or shock affect movement?

Oh, and since I'm posting, another question: How do you handle white-white situations with multiple opponents, when initiatives are rolled seperately? That is, if two of my players are fighting one bandit and the initiative for player1 vs. bandit is red-white, and for player2 vs. bandit white-white. Is player2 who rolled white just exluded from combat that round or can he declare attack instead? Does this question make any sense? :)

Mikael Kulma

[Alan]

Read the section titled "Movement and combat" in the codex of battle.  (I can't remember the page number.  

- All combatants must move 1/2 their move score in feet every Exchange.  
- Movement is simultaneous with maneuvers and takes no added time.
- They may move full move score in feet if it's justified by charging, running etc.   This is usually considered Agressive Stance.

- Movement does not require terrain rolls.  
- Terrain rolls come into play when terrain is risky in some way.
- Battle skill has no effect as far as I can imagine.

- Pain and shock dice losses represent loss of maneuverability in combat so there's little need to worry about movement loss these.  However, if movement is important in some kind of race for something, you can penalize fractions of move score for leg wounds and more serious torso and head wounds.

- Group initiative: before throwing initiative, get the players to tell you who they're attacking and declare the npcs intents.  Then break the melee into engagements each with one combatant facing one or more opponents.

Now handle each engagement, one at a time, running them each through two exchanges before moving to the next engagement.  

Before throwing initiative in an engagement, let the outnumbered combatant make terrain rolls to exclude opponents.  Then he and any unexcluded opponents may throw initiative.

Have the lone combatant decide whether he wants to throw individually against each opponent, or once against the group.  (or once against two and once against one, whatever).  So he can throw red or white against each opponent.  

In your example where two outnumbering opponets throw white and red, the white guy basically sits out for a round unless the outnumbered combatant attacks him.  (though you might allow him to defend for his buddy.) If he does sit out, he can throw initiative again against the lone combatant at the start of the next round.

If everybody throws white, it's a standoff, milling around and circling for 2 seconds.  Start again at determining engagments.  If people standoff for 5 rounds, the Taunting skill is allowd to incite an attack.

Does that help?

[Zhores]

Thanks for the quick reply, it helped a lot. Especially with the white-white situation.

So the characters can move their move score in feet during combat, and moving this much takes the whole turn? We'll figure this out.. anyway, its not that important. :)

The question about shock & pain and movement came up when one character was severely hit in the head and staggered away to alarm the guards. The other character (both PC's, conflicting SA's and such:), who was responsible for the hit, was still engaged in combat and couldnt stop him. We found the rules did not tell us exactly how long his staggering would take. Would he alarm the guards in time or would his head wound hamper his movement enough to allow the other PC to finish his combat and espace.

I ruled that pain substacts directly from the Move score.. however this doesnt work anymore, since our characters are getting better, with larger CP's, and it just doesnt seem logical.

Please forgive my annoying desire for explicit rules. :) We used to play Runequest where we were forced to create dozens of houserules. When we picked up Tros everyone just wanted to stick to the book.

Mikael Kulma

[nsruf]

So the characters can move their move score in feet during combat, and moving this much takes the whole turn? We'll figure this out.. anyway, its not that important. :)

IIRC, they can move up to their Move score in feet during a melee but it does not take up their turn. Outside a melee, they can move their score in yards, but I assume that is all they can do.

I ruled that pain substacts directly from the Move score.. however this doesnt work anymore, since our characters are getting better, with larger CP's, and it just doesnt seem logical.

There are no rules for injury penalties outside of combat (except maybe the Amputee flaw). I wouldn't bother with additional penalties in combat and just assume that adrenaline is responsible. Outside of combat, you could penalize ability/skill checks and Move by a number of dice equal to the highest wound level, or something similar. Pain is scaled to the average size of the pools and probably too much of a penalty if applied to ability scores.

[Bill Cook]

How do you handle movement in combat?

Unless there's some goal to it, movement may remain abstract.  (I've read posters vigorously assert that you must move during combat, and it says so on p. 86, but without purpose, there is no benefit from realizing this detail, IMO.)  However, if you felled your opponent last round and now want to rush to your buddy's side who's having a time of it with his own opponent, then it could matter.  

Usually, movement with goals fall into two categories: (1) reach a destination and (2) achieve an effect in the moving.  The above and your character trying to reach the guards are examples of the former.  There're two approaches I see a lot: (1) use miniatures and a tape measure to mark his move rate and (2) estimate the number of rounds to arrive and decrement as combat proceeds.

As for achieving an effect with movement, examples include taking cover (e.g. "My guy leaps behind the bar!"  "Arrow fire?  I hunker down at the base of a tree.") and manuevering to minimize access from multiple opponents.  These actions are handled by Terrain rolls.

How long does it take?

It takes one round of combat to move up to your move rate in feet and does not count towards your attack/defense action.

Do you use terrain rolls for it?

Depends.  See above.

How does the "battle" skill affect it, if at all?

Sorry.  I'm battle skill retarded.

How does pain or shock affect movement?

I read no support for Pain/Shock effect on movement.

Oh, and since I'm posting, another question: How do you handle white-white situations with multiple opponents, when initiatives are rolled seperately? That is, if two of my players are fighting one bandit and the initiative for player1 vs. bandit is red-white, and for player2 vs. bandit white-white. Is player2 who rolled white just exluded from combat that round or can he declare attack instead? Does this question make any sense? :)

Alan's response is more robust than what I had in mind to say.  I think the multiple and intersecting engagements issue will be addressed in TFOB (The Flower of Battle) due out at Origins in August.  Based on replies that I've read in this forum, I believe the design intent for such cases is to lose continuity, which is an intriguing aesthetic choice.

[nsruf]

Alan's response is more robust than what I had in mind to say.  I think the multiple and intersecting engagements issue will be addressed in TFOB (The Flower of Battle) due out at Origins in August.  Based on replies that I've read in this forum, I believe the design intent for such cases is to lose continuity, which is an intriguing aesthetic choice.

Yes, according to Jake combat should be broken into smaller engagements and each run on its own for a couple of rounds (~3), sort of like fights are portrayed in a movie. However, I am not sure how to address all timing issues with this method, so I am looking forward to TFOB for an example.

[kenjib]

I read the fact that the combat round is variable at 1-2 seconds to mean that timing issues are flexible anyway...

It's kind of convenient that way for that buddy who wants to jump in to save you at the last second.

[nsruf]

It's kind of convenient that way for that buddy who wants to jump in to save you at the last second.

Not if your engagement is resolved first and you are already dead before your buddy can even try to finish off his opponent early and aid you. That's what I am a little worried about.

[kenjib]

Could you conveniently switch to the next player when things are looking bad?  For example, you have just been wounded and it looks like your opponent will continue to press the attack with a killing strike, or if your opponent did a move that depletes your dice in the second exchange so that next round you will be at a die disadvantage.

[nsruf]

Could you conveniently switch to the next player when things are looking bad?  

Sure, but with my players, this could mean after every half of an  exchange;)

[Richard_Strey]

You have to realise that in TROS, combat is realistically fast -although I'm really tempted to set a combat *round* to 1 second. It'd come closer to my own experience. For the game, it's fine as it is.
That said, it is very well possible that you have to watch your pal get creamed even if you have nothing to do and are "only" ten yards away. That's life. In this case, your pal should have gotten the clue and gone defensive to give you the time to finish your own opponent and then his. From behind. :)

When we do sparring as a group, it's always the same basic tactic:
The beginners hang on to dear life and defend all they can, while the pros try to establish a superiority in numbers as soon as possible.

[nsruf]

That said, it is very well possible that you have to watch your pal get creamed even if you have nothing to do and are "only" ten yards away. That's life.

Sure. My problem is not that this is possible, but that timing issues like this are decided completely arbitrarily by the Seneschal. I could be generous to the players or not, or even make a decision in advance that unintentionally turns out to be disastrous for them (e.g. run each melee for 4 rounds instead of 3). Some ideas on how to handle a "meta-combat-round" in a consistent manner would be helpful.