Stats for a swordbreaker - anyone?

[Thagorod Alynsson]

In our campain I recently bought a swordbreaker (at the GMs permission), but I have some problems figuring out the stats for such a weapon.

I use the "cut and thrust" proficiency and use the swordbreaker in my offhand (rather clear, but anyway...)

The swordbreaker - as in the name, has one clear function, to destroy your opponents weapon. But how was this done, and how to implement some stats for this?

I believe that the swordbreaker wasn't that common, at least I found little information about swordbreakers by googling the net. The only picture I found on the net was of a rather oversized "Rambo-knife" with sawtooths on the back (so lagre tooths that you could grip a blad with them).
(http://www.knightsedge.com/daggers/knights-swordbreaker-agger.htm)

Lets say I use a swordbreaker like that on the picture in the link, what would the stats be? And most important of all, when and how will I be able to break my opponents sword?

[bergh]

I think that "catching" the blade with it should be an defensive manuver.
and it should work as a parry.(DTN VERY HIGH when "catching" the blade
, maybe 8-9?).

I don't know how to handle the rules for breaking the blade.
maybe a ST roll on diff. something...

Normaly use the dagger stats for attacks.

[Caz]

They weren't designed to break swords, that's a myth and physically impossible with one.  They were designed to parry and control the other guys weapon more easily, mostly vs thrusts.
   If it's really worth making a mechanical difference (which it may not be, but I haven't personally tried one out) maybe lower the DTN vs thrusts or use it for grapples vs his blade.  
   I don't think they were common, but quite a few survive.
It's used just like a regular main gauche with upturned quillons, but it sortof turns itself into a hand held trident, so the "quillons" are now the length of the blade, making control easier.
   Some modern genius thought that it was supposed to be turned in the hand, snapping the other guys blade.  But the most that can do is put some friction on their blade creating a relatively weak grip.
   It could be a literal sword breaker in a cinematic game.  I seem to remember someone doing that with one in a 3 musketeers movie.  You could make a grapple, followed by a ST roll or something.

   I just remembered, another type, without a mechanical blade.  Basically your usual main gauche again, but instead of the mechanical trident function, it had a wide blade, with sort of barbed saw edge on the back, designed to catch and hopefully hold narrow thrusting blades like rapiers and small swords.  I would probably treat it the same mechanically, but don't lower the DTN.  Probably more difficult to catch something in there, but again, I've never really tried one.

Really they weren't intended to "hold" anyones weapon, just tie it up or control it for a split second so you could perforate the other guy.

Pics of replicas on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1552&item=2238632916&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20272&item=2238593112&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

[Salamander]

Yeah, what Caz sez. It is a bit far-fetched to think you could break a sword. If anything you would break the sword breaker (or your Carpals, Metacarpals & Phalanges) in the effort. Steel is amazingly strong in all three axis. Much stronger than your hand or a smaller piece of steel.

Some examples of the first type Caz was referring to
http://www.myarmoury.com/albums/displayimage.php?album=14&pos=58

http://www.myarmoury.com/albums/displayimage.php?album=14&pos=197

and an example of the second type (which I more liken to a comb)
http://www.myarmoury.com/albums/displayimage.php?album=14&pos=237

[Lance D. Allen]

Hey, Lizard.. None of those look like what was described. You may want to check yer links.

[Blankshield]

If I gave them unique mechanics at all, I would give them a lousy ATN and a comparable DTN to dagger, with a lowered activation cost for Bind and Bind & Strike manuevers.

James

[Jake Norwood]

Breaking a stiff Rapier wouldn't be that difficult if it was tied up (with, for example, the sword breaker) and you whacked it good with your off-hand or a stouter blade (like a cut and thrust). I mean, if some of the masters discouraged swinging your rapier at a guy because that could break it, it's not so far-fetched to believe that you could intentionally break one if trapped right.

The real question is "why break it?" If you've tied him up, disarm him or kill him, but don't leave him with a weapon for close-combat.

Jake

[Caz]

Hehe that's another matter entirely.  Breaking a sword with the "sword breaker" alone would be like trying to break a steak knife with the fork you trapped it in though.
   
"If I gave them unique mechanics at all, I would give them a lousy ATN and a comparable DTN to dagger, with a lowered activation cost for Bind and Bind & Strike manuevers."

Does bind and strike even have an activation cost?  I wouldn't change the ATN or DTN, it's a friggin dagger, still in the shape/function of a main gauche.  It's not like a few extra ounces or a slight blade variation is going to make it harder to stab with or defend with.  I seriously doubt they weigh over 1 pound tops.  Balance isn't an effective factor, and they're designed to parry better than a usual dagger.

[Salamander]

Hey, Lizard.. None of those look like what was described. You may want to check yer links.

Groo?

They look exactly as they were described to me...

[ulfhiden]

ive always thought they were for twisting a sword out of someones hand

[Caz]

"ive always thought they were for twisting a sword out of someones hand"

Understandable if you don't practice these arts, but leverage makes that pretty much impossible too.

[Salamander]

"ive always thought they were for twisting a sword out of someones hand"

Understandable if you don't practice these arts, but leverage makes that pretty much impossible too.

And versus a weaoun held in two hands can lead to your "sword breaker" working as a guide for a sword in your face, or a pommel, or quillon, or set you up for a throw.... God I love sword fighting...

[Thagorod Alynsson]

The real question is "why break it?" If you've tied him up, disarm him or kill him, but don't leave him with a weapon for close-combat.

Jake

Jake sure got a point here. I believe I got on the unsteady Freudian ground, thinking metaphoric "breaking his sword" means breaking his power. I'm sure some knights really got pissed and lost some moral due to a broken sword (if that ever was possible).  But then again, as Jake said "why leave him with a weapon for close combat?".

I believe I have to discuss this further with my seneschal. If I can have a dagger who binds a little bit better than other parry daggers I'm happy. If I can walk around breaking my enemies blades I'm even happier.

[Blankshield]

Hehe that's another matter entirely.  Breaking a sword with the "sword breaker" alone would be like trying to break a steak knife with the fork you trapped it in though.
   
"If I gave them unique mechanics at all, I would give them a lousy ATN and a comparable DTN to dagger, with a lowered activation cost for Bind and Bind & Strike manuevers."

Does bind and strike even have an activation cost?  I wouldn't change the ATN or DTN, it's a friggin dagger, still in the shape/function of a main gauche.  It's not like a few extra ounces or a slight blade variation is going to make it harder to stab with or defend with.  I seriously doubt they weigh over 1 pound tops.  Balance isn't an effective factor, and they're designed to parry better than a usual dagger.

I'm not sure if B&S has an activation; I don't have handy access to a book right now.  I guess that the 'notched back' dagger version wouldn't be different enough to warrent a poor ATN; I'd been thinking more of the hand trident/Sai varient which strikes me as a really crappy thing to try and attack with.

James