The GNS of Fishing

[Cemendur]

It's like trying to discuss "sports" without defining what a sport is.  Some people consider fishing and churling (I think that is how you spell that) to be sports but I certainly don't, so without a non-subjective definition we're talking about two different things.  

The GNS of fishing.

Fishing is gamist play (i.e. sport) when the play envolves exploration of   tactical choices.

Fishing is simulationist play when it is about exploration of self or setting. Often people fish as a form of meditation on self or nature.

Fishing is narrativist play when it is about exploration of premise. i.e. Moby Dick.

Is that accurate?

Edit: The correction Gaerik pointed out.

[Andrew Cooper]

Fishing is narrativist play when it is about exploration of self or setting. Often people fish as a form of meditation on self or nature.

I think you meant Simulationist here.  This is funny as hell though.  Is hooking your fishing buddy a valid tactic in fishing?  Perhaps that depends on the Social Contract.

Also, I think simply defining Sport to be equivalent to Gamist is too broad a definition for Sport.  At that point I can define checkers as a sport.

[Cemendur]

Perhaps "sport" is a subtype of gamism?

"Is hooking your fishing buddy a valid tactic in fishing?" In "solo" and much of group play, the competition is between the fisherperson and the fish.

However, in "sports fishing", you have the further competition of size, variety, etc, and the competition over "fish tales". This is specifically overt in "fish competitions" where fishermen and fisherwomen compete against one another. In this case the "social contract" can be typically, but not always, compared with competitive solitaire - the players do not interfere with each others "deck" (no hooking your neighbor). However, as in mushroom hunting and busking, their is the further competition for prime territory.

[Blankshield]

Hmm.  Perhaps I'm trying to take a reducto ad absurdum example and make it serious; if so, apologies.  However:

Fishing is not inherently pushed towards any given GNS.  But, if someone is fishing to see who lands the biggest fish, or to brag around the fire about "the one that got away", they could be said to approach fishing in a gamist fashion.

If someone is fishing because they enjoy the out-of-doors or drinking with their pals, or can spend hours happily at the hardware store looking at lures, they might be simulationist.

If someone fishes only to feed their family, and never for sport, or perhaps deliberately fishes only overpopulated species, they could be narrativist fishing, although it's a bit of a stretch.

James
(If someone fishes for suckers using reducto ad absurdum examples as bait to say "these guys will apply theory to anything", that's definately narrativist.  <grin>)

[M. J. Young]

Simulationism: if someone is fishing to learn about the fish, that's simulationist; if they're fishing to understand what fish are in the lake, when they are likely to be caught, how many there probably are, what their movement patterns are, these are simulationist interests. They might be fishing to learn about the lake--how polluted is it? Are we going to dredge up boots and tires instead of fish? Is there a significant population of turtles here?

Now, if someone is fishing and they're raising questions about whether lures or bait are appropriate, that might be narrativist--I heard a fisherman once say that it was unsporting to use bait, because you were appealing to the fish's hunger, while in using a lure you were attempting to catch him by your skill at enticing his curiosity. If indeed there is an issue of the fairness of how to fish, that might be addressing an issue. There might be other "issues" in regard to fishing that could be addressed. But I really find this stretching to get a narrativist version of fishing out of it.

--M. J. Young

[Doyce]

If indeed there is an issue of the fairness of how to fish, that might be addressing an issue. There might be other "issues" in regard to fishing that could be addressed. But I really find this stretching to get a narrativist version of fishing out of it.

I suppose narrativist fishing would come down to whether or not you could ask and address a premise through the practice of fishing.

And by that I mean a premise more engaging than 'Will I catch fish?'

I'm not sure that I can think of such a question/premise.  I certainly can't at the moment, but perhaps others can.

Hmm.  More accurately, I suppose the question could also be whether or not a premise and theme can be exposed when recounting the tale of the fishing.  For most narrativist play, it's conflict, not task resolution, after all :)

[Ron Edwards]

Sorry guys, I'm calling it. This isn't about role-playing, and if someone is trying to articulate a "can GNS be applied elsewhere" question, there are better ways to do it.

Closed.

Best,
Ron