[Seven Systems Legacy] - stuck on new mechanics

[Ben O'Neal]

Cool pic, but why does it have a, ummm, codpiece?

Also, I think the legs look too stubby.

But I like the idea with the missile/gun thingys that it can grab. Pretty cool

-Ben

[Tobias]

I think the pic is pretty cool too, but I'm going to pick some serious nits with it - because us gamer nerds do. Better I than someone who's holding the final product.

1. The width of the pelvis and the stubbyness of the legs means this is a SLOW and not very maneuverable robot. However, it's stable (broad base, low center of gravity). Thus able to support a ton of weapons/weight - which I don't really see. Maybe make the weapons a bit bulkier?

2. The feet cannot rotate in a horizontal plane independently. Try walking like that on an uneven surface like that yourself for a while (keeping them rigidly forward like the knee).

3. While the grabbable weapons are cool - their supports look really spindly. So you'll loose the weapon quickly. Also, the weapons are loose so that the robot can use it's hands, obviously. But what is it going to use? Not for climbing or breaking it's fall - the weapons are in the way. For grappling/punching - the weapons are also in the way. For using a 'sword' or anything else - well, these things won't be lying around, so it should be carrying one. Many of these objections could be solved with a second drawing, with the weapons in 'retracted' mode.

4. What do those shoulder-stegosaurus thingies do?

5. Unless there's lots of camera's and screens, that head won't be doing a lot of looking - but it is sheltered a bit more. The picture suggests a flexible neck, though, to me.

Not intended as a flame. God knows I couldn't draw my way out of a paper bag.

[pilot602]

Thanks,

But it is just a concept piece. ;)

I like the torso and the arms but the legs/hips are going to get a reworking.

However, I do want a kind of "stodgy" look to the "retrofit" armor. Retrofit armor is exactly that, a bodged-on armor kind of forced to fit on the machine's skeleton. The Black Thyron armor is the stuff the machine was designed to wear and as such will be much more sleek, mean, organic and mobile looking.

Also note - the weapons frame is also a retro fit. At this point in the storyline "ancient" ranged weapons have not been discovered. The only weapons from the original factories are swords, spears, knives, etc. To "extend" the capabilities of the machines Humans developed the "Weapons Frame." It's an exoskeletal "back-pack" that is loaded up with various ranged weapons. It's meant to be expendable. It is meant to be folded up behind the machine or jettisoned when the machine enters hand-to-hand combat.

[Tobias]

Thanks,

But it is just a concept piece. ;)

It's a big robot with weapons. Of course I'm going to blast heck out of it.

Your comments sound good, though.

[Sydney Freedberg]

At this point in the storyline "ancient" ranged weapons have not been discovered. The only weapons from the original factories are swords, spears, knives, etc.....

Dude, at some point you are going to have to justify this "melee weapons only" thing. Hand to hand combat is a central (if implausible) part of the "giant fighting robot" genre, but since in modern militaries, swords are obsolete and knives are mostly used for opening ration packs, you really have to come up with some explanation why they're effective again.

[Ben O'Neal]

Maybe swords and stuff could be like huge lightsaber thingies!!! That would certainly make them comparable to modern projectile weaponry, cos they can burn a hole through anything!

Ok, I'll be quite now. :P

-Ben

[F. Scott Banks]

Hmm, if I may...

I'll agree with Syd that you need to explain melee weapons, but it shouldn't be to hard with your story.  Your story is where you'll explain your technology so this is where you can have fun.

First off...why robots?  Weapon platforms are so much more effective when they serve a singular purpose.  Tanks are powerful, well armored units that have taken the place of seige weapons when pounding fortifications, other armored units, and securing potitions.  Planes are the weapon of choice for air superiority with their high speed and heavy payloads.

I'd suggest that the design of the robots makes it easier to train soldiers for combat, than having crews of them man airplanes or tanks.  The first robot armor was exosuits that allowed soldiers to perform at peak condition and evolved into armor that allowed combat in harsh environments.  Keep building on that and you eventually have armor that is capable of replacing tanks, battleships, and fighters with the proper outfitting.

However, the design of these things means that they're freaking huge and therefore easy targets.  Stoping traditional projectile systems would be the main focus of anyone making one.  Eventually, firepower would be a secondary weapon as the most effective way of stopping one of these things is by simply cutting it in two.  With shields, polycarbonate armor and electrical field dampeners, there's not much you could shoot at one of these things that would stop it outright.  With redundant systems and advanced repair technology, one-shot/one-kill would be a distant memory.  

Humans are vulnerable to ranged weapons because you only have to destroy one percent of the human body (given it's the right one percent) to kill the whole machine.  Robots wouldn't have that drawback, reducing the effectiveness of projectiles.  Add heavy armor and shielding and guns suddenly become a lot less effective.  It's your story, so just develop these robots faster than traditional weapons.  

Rushing the shooter and getting into a position where ranged weapons cause damage to both the target and the shooter would become almost a primal tactic.  Therefore, the only weapon that makes sense is an old fashioned sword or polearm.  These robots have missiles and such I'm certain, but when it's pilot vs. pilot, the only way to get that kill should be to hack the other guy's robot apart.

That's what you're going for right?

[pilot602]

At this point in the storyline "ancient" ranged weapons have not been discovered. The only weapons from the original factories are swords, spears, knives, etc.....

Dude, at some point you are going to have to justify this "melee weapons only" thing. Hand to hand combat is a central (if implausible) part of the "giant fighting robot" genre, but since in modern militaries, swords are obsolete and knives are mostly used for opening ration packs, you really have to come up with some explanation why they're effective again.

I have, in fact it's right there in the quote you pulled! :)  

But since we're here ...  as I 've stated the ranged weapons  that are available to the player at this stage of the storyline are essentially "present-time" human/el'dan tech that get "amplified" when mounted on an SSM. So, while they do do damage and will kill an opposing SSM they are by no means the fastest way to end an SSM. The swords, spears, knives, etc. are designed to cut through stuff like Black Thyron and as such will pretty much cut an SSM to pieces within a few strikes.

And, for now, considering the EHG has not discovered any "ancient-tech" ranged weapons to be employed by these machines, the melee are, in fact, much more effective - if not more "dangerous" to use - than the retrofitted human-el'dan tech ranged weapons.

[pilot602]

Hmm, if I may...

I'll agree with Syd that you need to explain melee weapons, but it shouldn't be to hard with your story.  Your story is where you'll explain your technology so this is where you can have fun.

First off...why robots?  Weapon platforms are so much more effective when they serve a singular purpose.  Tanks are powerful, well armored units that have taken the place of seige weapons when pounding fortifications, other armored units, and securing potitions.  Planes are the weapon of choice for air superiority with their high speed and heavy payloads.

Wyld,

Thanks for the comments but I've already been through this with Mike and Syd et. al. :)

I've come up with a back story that I'm happy with (and others seem to be able to accept, at least in a rough format) and pretty much explains why/how these things can "exist" within my universe. Check out this thread http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=11599.

I think what I need to make more clear is that while Humans (and eventually the El'dan) have discovered these things and this technology, they haven't at this point in the storyline found everything or know about the technology. They know enough to use it but that's about it.

As the story goes on they'll learn about the tech and discover the "missing pieces" so in the mean time they develop "stop-gap" weapons that work because the technology they are sticking it on is itself alive and will boost and manipulate it.

Anything else, however, won't touchthese things with the one exception of the only"conventional" known weapon to the EHG that can stop these thngs are multiple nukes thrown at each SSM. Anything else just bounces off them. Thus you either nuke these things (which isn't always practical) or you send your own SSM out against 'em.

Anyway ... I've been through this ringer several times and I'm happy with the reasoning so far.

[Tobias]

I'm glad you're happy with your reasoning. One other things you could throw in the mix, if ever desired, would be the psychological aspect of giant robots on the populace.

[Sydney Freedberg]

[quote="Sydney Freedberg]Dude, at some point you are going to have to justify this "melee weapons only" thing.....

I have, in fact it's right there in the quote you pulled! :) [/quote]

Nope. You didn't justify it, just pushed it back a step. Okay, so the Ancient Aliens only left us the capability to build melee weapons. Why? Did the ancients build these things for some kind of hand-to-hand combat sport only? Did they have some technology humans haven't discovered yet that renders ranged weapons useless (e.g. Dune-style shields)? Or did they have politicians who wanted to spread the defense contracting dollars around and insisted the ranged weapons be built on a different planet we've not yet discovered?

I know this is a Big Mystery in your background and you don't want to reveal it up front, but you at least need to have a clear answer in your head (of course, maybe you do already) so you can (a) drop hints to appease military nitpickers like me (b) make the parts of your universe that are known-to-all be as consistent and coherent as possible.

[pilot602]

Duly noted.

[greedo1379]

Everything looks great to me so far!