[Schism] Introducing Epoch Games

[JohnG]

I just joined about 10 minutes ago but I just have to spread the word as soon as I can.  I've been working on my own RPG system for about 2 years and it has just now reached a point where I can begin work on my playtest version.

The settings are the easy part since I've already had 3 stuck in my head for longer than I'd want anything stuck up there.  I've decided to focus on scishm which is a gritty near future setting where the world is in a state of upheaval.

The question I have is what things do you all think are vital for the game itself.  I'd like to learn from people who've already been there so I only have to fix a million things instead of ten million lol!

If anybody would like to know more about the setting and give me advice on that as well I'd appreciate it.  I'm mainly worried about making it interesting and as original as I can.

Thanks to everyone who helps.

[ADGBoss]

Hello Strong & welcome to the Forge.

As for advice, definitely read all the stickies threads in all of the forums, to get a feel for the rules, the style, and what has gone before. I would also recommend going through the http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/">Articles section.  Lots of good stuff in there.  Finally peruse and ask questions. As with any forum its always good to start slow and not get involved with too many disparate discussions all at one time. :)

As per your game, well tell us as much about it as you can.  Tell us about the mechanics (ie Dice, Characters etc), also comments on the settings, but most importantly describe how you envision Play, that is how will a game session go? What will players do?

People will ask you poignant questions, so be prepared. :)


Welcome & Good Luck,


Sean

[Mike Holmes]

The question I have is what things do you all think are vital for the game itself.  I'd like to learn from people who've already been there so I only have to fix a million things instead of ten million lol!

You'll get tired of this before it gets better (if it ever does), but I'll ask a question in return. What do you mean by "the game itself"? That is, you know what a RPG is, we know what an RPGs is...so what are you actually asking?

Are you wondering what the minimum is to put into a book so that you have an entire playable game? Are you wondering what to focus on in the rules? Are you talking about setting here, or by "game" do you mean the system apart from setting information?

You'll find that the more precise you make your questions, the better the feedback you get here.

Mike

[JohnG]

The minimum I need to put in for a playable game.

[JohnG]

Are the names Insurgency or Exile in use?  Also does anyone happen to know the legality of using quotes from music or books in an RPG?

[Andrew Martin]

...
I've been working on my own RPG system for about 2 years and it has just now reached a point where I can begin work on my playtest version.
...
The question I have is what things do you all think are vital for the game itself.

It's really, really important to test the game with players and GM soon after you've designed it. Waiting two years seems excessive, and leads to the designer wasting a lot of time (like two years...).

Are the names Insurgency or Exile in use?

You might be OK with "Insurgency". The only game I found using Google with that name is:
http://www.madmonkey.net/page.cgi/showgame?id=256
Flair Games doesn't seem to be in business.

"Exile" is used in the Myst series of computer games, and in a computer game by Spiderweb software: http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/.

[JohnG]

It wouldn't have taken so long except I worked on it on my own and the system changed so much that it's totally unrecognizable from the original version.  The mechanics themselves are ready for playtesting as soon as I put them all into a semi-coherent order lol

[F. Scott Banks]

Hmmm, well I do know the legality of using books in an RPG series and that one is prickly.  For that one you could be jumped by either the author or the company.  Just mentioning a certain dark elf ranger can cause the ground to split open and lawyers to pour forth.

However, you'd be surprised what you can get by asking permission.  Hell, some writers would be willing to give you a complete fantasy or sci-fi setting just so that good idea they had back in college gets to see the light of day.  I've been tempted to share ownership of one of my ideas, just to let one of the designers on here turn it into something I beleived I couldn't.

Troll for "writers" and you'll be surprised what comes out of the woodwork.  You may not have to do much more than work out gameplay while someone else fills in the nooks and crannies with story.  You'll also get a pretty cool title.  I've found that trying to make a title based on gameplay is damn near impossible.  Make on based on the story and it'll practically write itself.

[Ron Edwards]

Hiya,

SBM, almost all of your questions are better suited to the Publishing forum. Please feel free to bring them there - we have lots of information for you. Also, check out the link to the Resource Library at the top of this webpage.

Best,
Ron

[Mike Holmes]

Well, the problem with defining a minimum is that for some people, less is more. That is, some people want a simple generic system that they can use for multiple genres. Meaning that you don't need any setting information, or color, or even starting situation. All you need is a system and player willingness to explore. So, from one POV, the "minimum" is very little. Pocket Universe, for instance, I think explores that minimum boundary pretty well. It's something that I can see people using, yet it's tiny - only a few pages of text.

Now, you've already got more than that, I imagine. So I'm guessing that you're wondering if you're missing anything critical. The problem with that thinking is that there will always be people for whom the minimum requirement is quite high. So high that the games they play are actually so heavy as to be inaccessible to most. So there's no optimum point to be at, really.

There are two principles that seem to apply - unfortunately they're both vague. First, you need to put in enough stuff to make the text capture the imagination of the reader. That is, after reading, they should say, damn, I want to play. Some people ignore this principle, and just go for making the game a good read - the problem with this is that if the game doesn't get played, then people don't hear about it being played, and your most important source of advertising, word of mouth, doesn't occur. So the text has to give the reader such a good idea of how they're going to have fun in play that they can't help but try it out. This means, in practice, that the reader should get a feel for what sort of characters the game can have, and what sort of action that they'll be propelling the characters through. We ask this all the time - who are the characters, and what do they do that's fun to play through? If that's not obvious, then readers have less chance to become players.

The second principle is if something isn't absolutely neccessary to playing the game well, it's probably not something that you need. That is, often people think that if they just slam more stuff in a game, it'll seem like a better value or something. But if that material actually just makes the game less accessible without adding to play in a dramatic way, then it's just damaging the game, really. You can always release it supplementally for those who might have a particular interest in that stuff. Even the people who have the higher minimum requirements don't appreciate stuff that hinders rather than helps (they want more really helpful stuff, only).

This is the elegance function - add only as much as you need to in order that the game plays well, and no more. Playtesting can help a lot here.

So you have two balancing forces. Have enough that the player has an idea of what play will be like, and yet not so much that the book is better for reading than for playing.

Does that help at all?

Outside of that, there have been successful publications that have failed to include things that other successful products have had. There's no magic formula.

Mike