[Sorcerer] What die do you use and why?

[Lxndr]

Hey Ron, do you still have that argument?  I'd be interested to see what line of reasoning the 'smug monkey' used.

[Yokiboy]

Hello again,

What about using D6s just for their stability, as they're stable and easier to move around the play area, while saving rolls during combat etc. The little we played with the system while creating characters for our first run, the D10s we were using rattled and rolled all over the place. What is the experience of more seasoned Sorcerer players?

With D6s you'll probably end up with less victories though, but on the other hand the handling time to spot what's been rolled should decrease. Eh, I just have to start playing this game so that I can decide for myself what I like or not.  :p

TTFN,

Yokiboy

[Trevis Martin]

The problem with D6's is the high incendence of ties.   You'll have a lot of marginal vicotories.  Of course that might suit the flavor of your campaign.

Trevis.

[Andy Kitkowski]

OK, ran my wuxia gunslinging action Sorcerer setting at the Con last weekend- I'll post an Actual Play writeup when I can.

I used all d20s.  I wasn't satisfied enough with the moderate amount of successes that my recent d10 rolling had been giving me- Not for this game, anyway.  Note, that this observation is the equivalent of saying "My dice are cursed" with a straight face, so take it with 2 cc's of salt.

Outcome: Fan-fucking-tabulous in most regards - and again I wouldn't recommend it always, just for wild action, wild drama games. Rarely were you crossing off the highest die, looking for the "one die that was higher than the other guy's"- Just reading the top die was enough to let you know who won.

Rolling 8 dice vs 2 isn't such a guarantee of a Sure Win as it is using d10s, to be sure.  It caught me off guard when a relatively huge pool of dice was knocked out by a single "18" or "20". But again, that's the flavor I chose and I rolled with the punches.

In other words, a player will choose an action ("I bluff the gunslinger - my 6 dice, 8 for the really cool way I just described it, vs his 2 dice"), as he does so you'll naturally let your brain think "OK, in the bag, start thinking 5 seconds ahead as to what happens"... and you may come up with a cool outcome. Then the dice come up, and the underdog won, forcing you to "hiccup", rewind your brain about 20 seconds, and pursue another path.

A small, small irritation.  And again, I don't suggest d20s unless you're willing to have a 10 die roll potentially get slammed by a one die roll 10% or more of the time.

Amping abilites/rolls gets a little riskier too.  It helps in d10 Sorcerer when you use a high-rated action to Amp, in the next roll, another action (using the Sorcerer Currency).  You figure you have your player do something he's good at in the first "round" to amp something he's not good at in the second roll.  Well, I had 2 Amps (of about 4 or 5) backfire in the course of a 3-hour adventure. Amping isn't the die-getter it is with d10s.

Hope that wasn't too vague.

-Andy

[Bailywolf]

Over in the Anvilwerks forum, the dice used in Donjon (which uses the same roll V roll core die mechanics as Sorcerer- only with d20's by default) were kicked around- and if memory serves, there was talk of 'd02' or even/odd resolution.  It turns into something like the Headcount resolution from GMS's UnderWorld.  Throw a number of coins, count the heads, and compare to the heads the other guy throws.  

Something I played with when using d6's was to give the winner all ties.  This pumped the levels of success up pretty high.  A 6, 6, 6, 5, 4, 3 vs a 6, 6, 6, 4, 4, 2 in standard Sorcerer would give you 1 Victory to the first guy.  With winner-takes-ties, this would be 4 victories.  

-Ben

[Andy Kitkowski]

Y'know, that's actually pretty interesting- I had the same thought a long, long time ago and totally forgot about it since.  Thing is, if you use d6es or d4s, you could get some incredibly wild results right off the bat, even more than with the d20s...

-Andy

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

You guys do remember that Sorcerer's core system's direct parent is Prince Valiant (1989), right? Underworld's system is essentially identical to Prince Valiant.

Or if you want to look at it this way, "Sorcerer using d2."

The Donjon variant is pretty interesting, but I think it would best apply to Sorcerergames in which character death isn't too likely even with death-potential damage (lasting penalties > 2x Stamina). I'm not sure if you guys are used to playing in games where a demon with Power 12 is likely to whack a player-character with Lethal Special Damage, but even using the standard Sorcerer rules, it's a very ugly thing. If ties go to the victor, I see a lot of dead characters in the future.

If I were to use that variant, then I'd do it in a genre in which taking that level of damage would be "correctable" in easier ways than modern day or low-tech historical.

Best,
Ron

[Bailywolf]

How do the maths work out on the various die types?  Has anyone charted them out?

-B