Another Attempt to Pull an Indy Game out of my Ass with ease

[TooManyGoddamnOrcs]

I find kill puppies for satan to be an excellent game because of what I interpret (quite uncharitably) as its central idea: this style of play displeases me and so therefore I will take this to its logical conclusion by making the characters that style of player given the powers of that style of character but in a universe with the exact opposite ethos.  Thus, even in the Evil Industry, the PCs are working at the equialent of Wal-Mart and (even) the players are expected to screw them over.  Having, more or less, been out of the hobby except for PBeMs will make this task even easier for me as my targets can be half-formed memories and impressions, which means I needn't worry about bad things happening to them.  In short, I want to create a game that that noone wants to play but contains some interesting things that can't be transplanted, much like HoL.

Anyway:
play style I want to reward - being an asshole without suffering consequences because you're too sanctimonious.  I figure it this way:

MINOR REWARDS
Interrupting another player for what is deemed a valid reason.

MAJOR REWARDS
Derailing a fellow player's, or even the GM's, entire story arc by proving that a prime mover "Wouldn't Have Acted That Way"

GENERAL PENALTIES
Failing to prove your rightness to the satisfaction of the rest of the table, roughly equivalent to the .

MINOR TO MODERATE PENALTIES
Failing to show respect to a player that deserves it (by not doing anything that the table concensus views as wrong... )

Faliling to follow the Ground Rules established by the GM to favor players or playstyles as he sees fit (subject to debate whether the rules fit the setting during the Social Contract Phase).  

Failing to maintain the Vibe chosen during the Social Contract Phase, the Vibe is a statement which describes the groups ostensible creative agenda(rather than their Creative Agenda, I need a better term), for example Evil is Banal, We're All Artists Here or It Never Hurts to Ask the GM Questions.


MAJOR PENALTIES
Admitting you're wrong.      

I want the system to be class-based and have a few other bits of crunch like that so that the players have things to argue about.  I have this sneaking idea that Ninjas should be forced to behave like paladins (because Evil should never have power, they already have Numbers and this is a game about the Superior Few against the Inferior Masses).  

The crunch will be necessary as there should be more categories than any one concept will need so every character will have a few undefined fronts where the other players can get their hooks into him.  

Basically, I want to make this a game of being Holier than Thou on as many battlegrounds as I can (Canon, Alignment, Play Mechanics) and probably a written Social Contract just to pour confusion on those troubled waters.  Feedback, Abuse and Suggestions I Flesh Out My Ideas Before Presenting Them to the Public are all welcome.  Remember: it's not about art, it's about deflecting self-loathing onto others by feeling Good about Yourself.

[TonyLB]

Quick clarification:  These rewards and penalties are for players acting in this way, or representing characters that act in this way?

[TooManyGoddamnOrcs]

I figure they'd be metagame rewards, since the aim of the game is to gain power for your character by snubbing the other players (I'm thinking equal parts Hackmaster, Paranoia and a spte-fuelled worst-case game of Universalis).  Thus, this is a game of arguing what Aelves are REALLY like and whether or not they'd do what the Aelph's player wants their Aelph to do.

[TonyLB]

So you're rewarding the actual players for something that you find utterly despicable.

Isn't that roughly akin to playing Kill Puppies for Satan with actual puppies?  Or am I missing something?

[inky]

So you're rewarding the actual players for something that you find utterly despicable.

Isn't that roughly akin to playing Kill Puppies for Satan with actual puppies?  Or am I missing something?

Well, the original poster said they want to write a game that nobody wants to play. It sounds like the intent is to make a, hmm, Gamist parody of a Gamist game. I'm not quite sure what feedback is being sought here, but if it's just rules suggestions:

[*] Have a rule that says that the rules are absolute. This is important to ensure the GM can't just end arguments by fiat.
[*] At the same time, have many areas explicitly left up to "the common sense of the playing group".
[*] Possibly provide some kind of official voting mechanism for resolving disputes over the rules. Encourage backstabbing (but not explicitly, of course).
[*] Since you want alignment to be an issue in this game, have some character classes explicitly required to be moral absolutists and some required to be moral relativists -- forget just arguing good vs evil, this is good vs there's-no-such-thing-as-good
[*] If you want to keep open the possibility of this resulting in an actual physical brawl, have a Party Leader position who gets some sort of power to make decisions for the group, and have a Special Leader Hat, and say whoever's wearing the hat is the Party Leader. Then stand back.
[*] There is a very fine game called Dragon's Gold where the players team up to fight dragons, and then have a fixed amount of time to agree on how to divide the treasure, or the treasure vanishes. Possibly something similar could be instituted here.
[/list:u]

Is this the sort of thing you're looking for?

[TooManyGoddamnOrcs]

So you're rewarding the actual players for something that you find utterly despicable.

Isn't that roughly akin to playing Kill Puppies for Satan with actual puppies? Or am I missing something?

The thing is, it's only emotional violence and therefore it's all good until someone ends up in therapy.  I sort of envision this game as competitive calvinballing.  

On reflection, each character is governed by several traits, I'm thinking D&D traits like Race, Class and Alignment as well as Vampire Traits like Concept, Virtues and maybe more Indy style traits like Rage Stimulus, Social Level and so on.  I'm thinking we give the players a priority system so they could have a very well defined Race, say the Space Aelves with traits desgined exclusively , but have to pick their Fear Stimulus from a short list in the back of the book.  Now, as mentioned before, a player's action may be cut short whenever anyone else determines they've acted out of character... Maybe the very lowest priority traits are picked by another player.

Possibly provide some kind of official voting mechanism for resolving disputes over the rules. Encourage backstabbing (but not explicitly, of course).

This is exactly what I'm going for, think Paranoia only with Grognards instead of Troubleshooters...

If you want to keep open the possibility of this resulting in an actual physical brawl, have a Party Leader position who gets some sort of power to make decisions for the group, and have a Special Leader Hat, and say whoever's wearing the hat is the Party Leader. Then stand back.

This is too good not to use somewhere, maybe a Gamemaster Pin, to add a sharp object to the mix....

[TooManyGoddamnOrcs]

Possible other player positions:
Mapkeeper - I remember once thinking every party in D&D needed a mapkeeper.  In this game, one (secretly and randomly determined) non GM player should make a list of horrible, yet genre appropriate things that characters can do.  Thus, in a Gothyk-Punque game, one point goes to the first player to have his character buy a trenchcoat and/or a katana and five goes to the player with the crazy vampire who acts like Gary Busey if Gary Busey had severe head trauma.  

Keymaster - can screw with dead player characters in a fashion to be determined later.

Keeper of the Ways - Secretly nominated, this poor wretch gets points every successive turn that noone derails the plot.  

Other positions may be inserted in the Social Contract.  I'm thinking the Social Contract phase is like Master Creation in that it should probably take a session and flavors the rest of the game.  The Social Contract must be a physical document, it must also be waved in the face of whomever breaks it.

[TooManyGoddamnOrcs]

Further reflection gives the character its final form: five statistics, changed by genre and possible pre-game argumentation but basically each defines an area of a character.  There is a priority system:
Top: Player makes up entirely
Second: Player chooses from the big chart
Third: Player chooses from the small chart
Fourth: GM chooses from big chart
Fifth: another player choses from big chart

You could choose to move a priority up in order to move another priority down to

Sixth: GM makes up entirely
Seventh: Other player makes up entirely

Thus the statistics would be a measure of the player's credibility (the big charts would have specific and far less negotiable variants of what's on the small charts.  Qualinesti Elf or Aelph (Christmas) as opposed to the more generic "Elf."  

The rest is more sadistic window-dressing but I think this is turning into an actual system...