Nat'l Protect Your Players Day

[lumpley]

...Just for Ron.

This isn't me moderating, it's me setting tone for the convo:

Dogs can be a serious game that takes on no foolin' issues. I don't think we really need to mention it again every time someone brings up a new issue.

We all know not to play games we don't want to play, right? Let's assume that, absent other information, everybody here will respect and take care of their fellow players. Nazism, divorce, child abuse - let's let people develop their thoughts without us reminding them it's a no foolin' issue. I think they realize it already.

We also all know about lines and veils, for when we play games we do want to play, right?

-Vincent

[MajorKiz]

Fair enough. I agree, actually, and deleted a fairly snarky reply that could have been summed up as "I said be aware, not don't do it." But it's probably better to just take that as a given everywhere.  Religion is, after all, always a touchy subject. :-)

[Ron Edwards]

So wait, I don't get it.

Does that mean people are supposed to stop posting "oh no, they might be offended"?

Or that people can post all they want about that and I have to stop replying with "oh get over it" posts?

Can't be both, so I'm confused.

Best,
Ron

[MajorKiz]

So wait, I don't get it.

Does that mean people are supposed to stop posting "oh no, they might be offended"?

Or that people can post all they want about that and I have to stop replying with "oh get over it" posts?

Can't be both, so I'm confused.

Best,
Ron

I read it as "assume they know it might offend folks and don't bother pointing that out."

[Joshua A.C. Newman]

I never quite got the line/veil thing, even though I read Sorcerer (but couldn't get my group into it. They made nauseous faces). But, since it seems particularly relevant to this game, let me ask a question to clarify here:

Is the idea that a group has:

• A line, past which no one will tread (let's say, for me, playing a fascist);

• A level, the 'veil', that players are relatively uncomfortable with, so we 'pan away' at appropriate moment, leaving the details to the players' imaginations, as far as they want to take it;

• A broad area of shared experience in which everyone is comfortable, where most of the action takes place?

Is that an accurate summary?

[MajorKiz]

Is the idea that a group has:

• A line, past which no one will tread (let's say, for me, playing a fascist);

Personally, I'd put that line as "Here There Be Dragons."

It's not that you should never go past it, just that if you go past it by accident, not knowing what you're doing, you could end up in trouble. Facing giant spiders in a game with arachnophobes, making a player whose mom just died of cancer go through something similar with their PC's mother, putting child rape into a game where the players get visibly squirmy whenever the subject comes up... it's not necessarily a no-go area.

You might get some amazingly intense and/or cathartic roleplaying out of it... if you do it right.

[Ron Edwards]

Hiya,

Joshua (Nikola), yeah, you've got the Lines & Veils terminology down perfectly.

Line = "There is no torture in the events in our game. We don't do it, NPCs don't do it to us or to each other. Whether it happens elsewhere in the setting is not an issue in terms of enjoying play."

Veil = "Torture does happen in the game world and may happen in our game in some way or another. But if and when it does, we do not role-play it directly or depict it verbally. Everyone is trusted to play their characters as reacting to it appropriately without us having to experience it vicariously."

Those terms are from Sex & Sorcery and repeated in the Forge Glossary, in the Articles section. They're both major aspects of Social Contract.

Best,
Ron

[lumpley]

Does that mean people are supposed to stop posting "oh no, they might be offended"?

Or that people can post all they want about that and I have to stop replying with "oh get over it" posts?

The former!

-Vincent