What are the best skill-based RPGs and why?

[Space Cowboy]

Hey all,

I'm in the process of further refining Wild Sphere's game mechanic and wanted to take a look at how WS' mechanic compares to other skill-based systems.  So, does any one have a favorite skill-based system, and what makes it great/fun?

Many thanks in advance!

[Bankuei]

Hi SC,

Welcome to the Forge!   In order to get some real feedback, you'll do best by narrowing down your question with a few more qualifiers.   It may help you to first of all, explain something about what the goals are for your game Wild Sphere, and how your mechanics make that happen.  Then, folks can give some other games which may do similar things, better or worse.  

Right now, the question is so wide open, its like asking "Which flavor of ice cream is the best?", and without and qualifiers, its basically an opinion poll.

It may also do well for you to explain what exactly do you mean by a "skill based" system.  I'm going to assume that it means that characters are rated by skills in terms of ability, but other than that, it doesn't really explain anything.   A skill in D&D is not the same as a skill trait in Over the Edge is not like a skill Ability in Donjon.  

Chris

[Space Cowboy]

Hi SC,

Welcome to the Forge!   In order to get some real feedback, you'll do best by narrowing down your question with a few more qualifiers.   It may help you to first of all, explain something about what the goals are for your game Wild Sphere, and how your mechanics make that happen.  Then, folks can give some other games which may do similar things, better or worse.  

Right now, the question is so wide open, its like asking "Which flavor of ice cream is the best?", and without and qualifiers, its basically an opinion poll.

It may also do well for you to explain what exactly do you mean by a "skill based" system.  I'm going to assume that it means that characters are rated by skills in terms of ability, but other than that, it doesn't really explain anything.   A skill in D&D is not the same as a skill trait in Over the Edge is not like a skill Ability in Donjon.  

Chris

Hey Chris,

Thanks for your post!  I'll try to think of a tighter question.

Cheers

[M. J. Young]

Chris is right. I was going to say something to that effect on the thread you started about point-based character generation, but since I don't play any such games I don't have any other input than that opinion polls are discouraged here.

Let me suggest that there are a number of aspects to "skill systems" that might be relevant to your question, and you might want to think about which of these matter.

[*]Scope of skill lists. In Multiverser, an effort is made to cover everything, or at least to make a place for everything, so that any kind of character can be a Multiverser character. In Star Frontiers, by contrast, there are something like a score of skills which cover everything any player character in that milieu is expected to be able to do, from fire a gun to fly a starship to heal an alien life form. The question then is how comprehensive do you want your skill system to be.[*]Breadth of individual skills. Multiverser makes a lot of this a referee judgement call. Do you let your players take "driving" skill, or do you distinguish "combat driving", "heavy transport driving", "racecar driving", and "stunt driving" into distinct skills, or do you take it further and give skills in "skid turn", "jump", "high speed maneuvering", "ramming", and other individual possibilities? Under what circumstances do you want to dictate the level of discrimination or generalization of skills, and under what circumstances do you want to leave those questions to the end users?[*]Organization of skill system. Multiverser divides skills into four areas (tech, psi, mag, bod), then divides each area into fifteen levels based on core principles (psi telepathy, telekinesis, precognition), then divides each level into ten intensities based on the complexity of the application (simple wedge, levered wedge, opposed levered wedges). Star Frontiers divides skills into three Primary Skill Areas, Military, Technological, and Biosocial, and then tacks on Spaceship skills independently. It then has a limited number of skills in each area, each of which has subskills, abilities incorporated within the skill, usually with specific rules concerning how these work in play.[*]Relation of the skills to the resolution mechanic. Multiverser rates skills with a skill ability level, added to a select attribute according to bias area and a bias number, modified by other numbers according to the situation (including whether this is being used as an attack form), and then does a roll-under; it also limits skills by disallowing the use of any which are outside the current bias. AD&D2's psionics system relates skills individually to one of three ability scores, usually with a modifier, such that the player has to roll under the ability score to use the skill successfully.[*]Potential for skill improvement. As appears in the previous note, Multiverser's skill ability levels can be increased by practice, so the character gets better at individual skills. In contrast, AD&D2's psionics skills only improve if the player manages to increase an ability score--a very difficult task in that game.[*]Effect of skill improvement. In Star Frontiers, a character's skill rating can advance from the first to the sixth rank, each increase boosting his chance of successfully using the skill (by ten percent). In Multiverser, the character increases through up to thirty steps of one percent improvement increments on chance of success, but at the eleventh step he doubles his speed and/or effectiveness, and at the twenty-first step he triples it as compared with the first step. Thus it's not just the chance of success that improves, but also the speed and quality of success.[/list:u]Obviously, I think Multiverser's skill system is an excellent example worth examining. The question, though, is what are your objectives in having a skill system at all? It may be that none of these aspects are issues for you, and it may be that all of them are.

--M. J. Young

[Tomas HVM]

I'll stick to the original question. I published a game in -99, a fantasy RPG called Fabula.

- It has a skill system with levels going from 0-20 (20 being the practical, but not absolute, top). The skill level is added to a D20 for success and quality, in one throw. Average modifiers range from -6 to +6.

- The die is open ended. 1 is bad for you (GM discretion). 20 is good for you (throw die again and sum it).

- A D20 is used to check for XP use. Use one XP on a skill, throw the die, and raise the level of the skill if result is over current level (makes it harder as levels rise). Average modifiers range from +0 to +3.

- Level 20 is the level of a master. Mastership negates a botch on the die (1 on the die being only 1, not a bad failure). Anyone with the same skill will notice mastership. Others may notice. A master has the right to be titulated as "Master". Not doing so is a breach of etiquette.

- There is few skills in the basic system. A very broad range of actions are covered by 25 skills (as broad as any RPG I've seen). Each character type in the game start with 6 or 7 skills, making them proficient in their field of expertice (war/leadership, guiding/wilderness, commerce/entertainment, scholarship/magic).

- Skills are described efficiently (short paragraphs), and with focus on different options of use (a fencing skill not only helps in combat, in different ways. It may also help the character spot a combat in brewing, assess the opposed forces, and stop combat from taking place by fleeing, intimidating or softening the opponent).

- Skills overlap to a certain degree, making the use of different skills possible for the same task (with varying modifiers).

- As the setting expanded to include other races and cultures, they got their own mix of char-types, with different sets of skills, making it possible for one culture to have one skill covering the same actions as two skills in another culture. This makes for totally new char-types, with unique skills, overlapping the fields of expertice of char-types of other cultures. Each culture/race got its own set of char-types, and its own set of skills.

THE BENEFITS:
- Speed: success and quality in one throw!
- Versatility: broad range and deep desription of skills enrich character options
- Realism: skillcheck-results carefully weighted towards rest of system!
- Robust: easy to spot consequences of tweeking, easy to tweek
- Atmospheric: "cultural" skill names and descriptions strenghten play on character background

SUM:
- The best traditional RPG there is! Superior feeling! Superior flexibility! Superior drive! Superior potential for the gamesmith and the game master in creating challenging settings and scenarios!

DRAWBACK:
- It's written in Norwegian. Not many people talking Norwegian in the world of today, and even less playing roleplaying games. A pity.

(I like this thread)