Shadows(Ya shouldn'tna'done that, he's jus'ta boy.)

[sirogit]

So, unkowledgable to myself I had agreed to run another one-shot for Chris H and some of his friends, so I picked out Shadows, and played with: Chris M, Chris H and his girlfriend, Rose.

I chose to have people play characters that were not themselves, primarily because I wanted to run something in a creepy southern atomsphere and thought it'd be strange to do so otherwise. So I had people underage members of the same, very large, very poor family.

It was intereasting playing the game with someone who hadn't roleplayed for a bit, because I'd answer statements such as "I will probably forget what to roll in five minutes..." with "NO you won't."

Starting off with people drawing their characters, I was astounded by how much patience they had for it, spending very nearly an hour with hardly a peep, and as everyone had just as much enthuasium for it I didn't interupt it, very happy with sitting quietly and slowly receiving the very excellent portraits that resulted.

So the characters they chose were:

Chris M: Jimmy Bo, A 10 year old kid who likes a pointy stick.
Chris H: Billy, An extremely old looking 18 year old, pretty much a redneck stereotype.
Rose: Betty Sue, an older teenage girl with an exgarretated sense of her beauty.

During the character generation process, I and Chris H started peering over at Rose's drawing, who was in a state of being very well-purportioned and lacking clothing, and I believe we had a conversation consisting of

Chris: Wow, she's pretty.
Rose: Well, atleast in this game, we're all in the same family, so I'm not going to be hit on.
Me: No! You're southern, so it doesn't matter, HA!

Such began a collection of incest jokes made by Chris and his girlfriend(Who apparently are just not fond of the south, election memories?) that made me re-examine my concept for the game to be a spooky thriller about loss of control during adolescence, say 'fuck that', and re-adjust for a lighter, campy romp.

The game basicly consisted of me throwing them something to react to, and very aggressively calling for Shadow Rolls, with some very amusing results.

There was two major roadblocks:

No. 1 was when Chris H was making some more randy jokes via the shadow roll system, which promoted the following reactions as far as I could see:

Chris M: (Silence)
Me: Heh.
Rose: Haha, ugh.

While obviously pushing the group's "line", I thought it was still adding to the fun atomsphere, and decided to play with it a little: To encourage more use of the token system, I'd urge Chris H to base an incest joke in a Shadow roll, so that people could spend tokens to 'deny' it from entering the game's offcial reality. I think this created a playful atomsphere that worked for the couple, but my brother Chris M. started making some angry noises followed by loud complaints.

I asked him what was the matter, and he told me that he was sick of the incest jokes and wish'd people move on. I said that's an acceptable idea and wish he'd spoke up sooner, and than asked him how we might avoid pissing him off in the future, at which point he totally clammed up, saying something along the lines of "I don't want to hold up the game."  

Everyone else had a short discussion about it, and something remarkable I notcied was that I never had any 'negative' feelings whatsoever during the discussion. Usually when these types of things come up in games, I get this feeling from other people of friction, of people proclaiming other people as wrong and being completely blind to the other's point of view, but this time was just a fun and enjoyable discussion among friends.

My brother, however, just seemd to get quieter and more resentfull, not engaging in the conversation of the game except to air very vague complaints, but still quite intereasted in playing.

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At the end of the game, Chris H and Rose told me that they really enjoyed themselves and Rose was intereasted in joining one of my regular games, but my brother seemed still kind've miffed. He really doesn't want to discuss his problem with it. I forsee a problem with next game I'm gonna run, as the people I have lined up are into that boundry-pushing stuff, and my brother really doesn't want to be out of the game, but I see no reason why similar ripples wouldn't be coming up.

[Lord_Steelhand]

By way of disclosure, I will admit up-front I am Southern.  If you feel I am coming off as "Mr. Victim", please ignore this post with my apologies.
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Sirogit, You seem at the end of your post to imply that the ability to make it past the line of the group's average is a sign of a more advanced player.  When you said that your next game would be with people who like to do more 'boundary pushing" play, do you mean their boundaries or someone elses (or a sort of "everyman's" values)?

The reason I ask this is that I have noticed in some players an enhanced response to approaching the edges of another player's comfort - like riding a roller-coaster.  This aspect enhances the fun of ceratin types of play because they get to see someone "squirm".  Maybe that was not at all what was happening here, but it does at least open the subject for discussion, in my mind.

* How does/should the GM's personal lines influence how play is managed in terms of subject matter?

* How should a GM handle a situation where play begins to get close to a previously undisclosed or unrecognized line for a player?

* What systems or play-policies would aid in avoiding or discussing these issues with a group?

Thoughts on this from anyone?

[sirogit]

You did not seem to be out-of-line with any of your remarks and I thank you for your temperence.

I didn't mean to imply that there's something paticularly advanced about "line-pushing", just that its a reasonably enjoyable activity for myself, Chris, and Rose, but I suspect not for my brother.

When I talk about line-pushing, I mean the group's assumed line, which is somewhat below what everyone would actually be comfortable with. The problems with it come in when people stop communicating their feelings about it.

The discussion for myself is moot as my brother is forgoing my next game to run something himself next semester, but its an intereasting line of theory none the less.

[Callan S.]

I asked him what was the matter, and he told me that he was sick of the incest jokes and wish'd people move on. I said that's an acceptable idea and wish he'd spoke up sooner, and than asked him how we might avoid pissing him off in the future, at which point he totally clammed up, saying something along the lines of "I don't want to hold up the game."

I find this behaviour interesting. In my estimate, he's believed the game to be of a certain type and is ready to concentrate there. However, I'm getting the feeling there's a social contract break coming in as someone else opens up the focus of the game for discussion itself, as in your starting the incest jokes, another player continuing them and your intertwining this with the matter and patter of play (the shadow rolls).

I think he's found what he presumed the original focus (and I think it was the original focus, from your post), ended up being up for discussion and change. I think he felt there would be a solidarity of purpose from the start, and your asking what people should do stop pissing him off made him clam up. After all, in his mind it's not about avoiding pissing him off, it's 'what the hell happened to the solidarity of focus we started with here? I don't want the game to revolve around my want (so as to not piss me off). I want the group focus to come back (and looking at what I want as an individual is counter to that)!'

And as GM, I'm guessing he was looking to you to help arrange that. Sound far off?