Dark Border: questions about Bangs

[Adrienne]

CPXB, or any other of my players reading this thread, shoo.  I'm hoping to get a bit of advice about Bangs, to help me in the session coming up Wednesday.  The actual play thread is here.  The PCs are an aristo Stephan, looking for land, love, and glory; a Seer Barbon, of unknown desires; and a local rancher's second son Lokesh, looking to distinguish himself.  So far, the PCs have been to a festival to meet and greet, then ridden off to save a village on Nayan's land from a plague and are just coming back to the city with some suspiciously sorcerous-looking bones.  

Here are the major NPCs introduced so far:

Fiora, wife of the absent vicar Maldeo.  She seemed to get on well with Stephan.  She and her husbands are foreigners, appointed to rule Manjipe by the king.  Not much here yet, although the group may be visiting her soon to use her library (she was a scholar, before moving to Manjipor).

Dhavlesh and Tulasi are two young lovers from the area.  Dhavlesh has already distinguished himself in fighting, and Tulasi is a social success at court.  They're engaged since childhood, perfect couple, etc.  Except that Dhavlesh stole an evil book ten years ago, when he was a whelp serving in Border skirmishes, and lately he can't resist the lure of taking it out and reading it.  Tulasi knows or suspects that he's messing with dark powers, but doesn't know what to do.  She's looking for someone to help fix her relationship--or someone to trade up to.

Nayan is an older, respected landholder who has done his duty and wants to live in peace.  Ten years ago a failed Shadow raid delivered a strange book into his hands; a little while later, another wave of the same series of attacks killed his wife.  The book gave instructions for speaking with the dead, and he made the first preparations before putting the book aside in a crisis of conscience.  The next morning, the book was gone, and the secret has shadowed his years since.

His daughter Asha, who was a young girl then, knows at least some of what happened.  She wants to protect her father's secret.  For herself, she's a painfully shy young woman who's come to court because Nayan insists it's unhealthy for her to hide away on his estate.  She's also his only heir.

Vitale is an envoy from Portona, a northern province of the kingdom.  Taxes levied on Portona pay for mercenaries to defend the Border, so the more short-sighted or greedy Portonans want Manjipe to break away from the kingdom to remove their tax burden.  So, Vitale might be in the area to stir up trouble, or he might just be semi-exiled to a shit post from home--I'm thinking vaguely of Londo from the earlier seasons of Babylon 5.  He has a young assistant, Delfino, to play the role of Vir (long-suffering lackey, that is).

The elephant in the room at court is the ghost of the Takkarian Empire.  The province of Manjipe is all that's left of that vast country, now swallowed by Shadow.  The king of Tarencia was forced on the Borderers only a hundred years ago, and many of the local aristocrats still cherish dreams of independence.  The memory of empire, coupled with their current dire straits, gives rise to the famed Borderer pride (and courage--one common saying in the books is "Borderers always run the wrong way").

The other issue, which I probably should have mentioned first except that it's not yet well-defined, is the vampire.  One of the players mentioned that he thought it would be neat if there was a vampire stirring up intrigue at court.  I liked the idea, and I hope that by now I've embellished it enough to still hold some surprises for him.  

With regards to the above NPCs, the book that Dhavlesh has (that he stole from Nayan) belonged to the vampire, who wants it back.  He can't take it directly because Dhavlesh has learned enough from the book to protect himself magically.  A less direct approach is required--and besides, the vampire was originally from Manjipe before falling to the Shadow, so he probably has old grudges to settle at court.

Okay, I hope that was a reasonable framework to set things up, without drowning everyone in detail.  My current ideas for Bangs are as follows.

Stephan is approached by Asha, who's received a note claiming that he can expose her father's secrets.  She will plead with him not to betray her father, offering herself as the only payment she has.  (Note that Stephan has no such secrets, although he may eventually piece them together.)  To sweeten the deal if he seems disinterested, she'll offer to have a Seer verify her words--after all, why should he believe her?  Then, finally, she's even willing to marry him if he gives his word not to persecute Nayan.  Following the example of the bangs in the Dornish crown thread, I've tried to distill the question this asks:  Is Stephan more interested in the promise of a wife and land or in satisfying his curiosity?

Assuming nothing else demands the screen time, I'll then turn to Barbon, in a scene that happens concurrently.  He's approached by Delfino, Vitale's assistant (who is completely infatuated with Asha).  Delfino will explain that he knows Barbon is a Seer, and that he needs Barbon to read someone's mind because one of Delfino's friends is about to make a terrible mistake.  That'd be Asha, of course.  Delfino tried to talk her out of believing the note, but she panicked.  So, he wants Barbon to read the thoughts of Dhavlesh, who he thinks sent the note.  He'll explain that he's heard of the financial troubles of Barbon's family up north, and he could persuade Vitale to exert influence on their behalf.  The question:  Will Barbon choose professional ethics or prosperity for his family?

It probably won't come up for a few sessions at least, but I'm thinking of making the vampire Lokesh's grand- or great-grandfather.  He's the only PC from the area, and has been the most concerned so far with his family, so using that tie is irresistable.

I could use any of the following:  feedback on the bangs I've worked up, suggestions for more (especially for Barbon), questions about the NPCs, or anything else that comes to mind.  :)  I'm also noticing that my bang ideas so far include isolating the PC in question, because I'm worried that one of the others would say something and make the decision via peer pressure instead of character development.  Is this normal?

Thanks in advance for any help!

[Mike Holmes]

The PCs are an aristo Stephan, looking for land, love, and glory; a Seer Barbon, of unknown desires; and a local rancher's second son Lokesh, looking to distinguish himself.

OK, you give only a small amount of detail for the PCs, and lots for the NPCs. All backwards. Bangs are not about finding out what the NPCs are doing that's interesting to the PCs. Bangs are about finding out the PCs issues, and making the NPCs do things to bring those out. You may be doing this already, but it's hard for us to help if we don't know the PC motives.

So far, the PCs have been to a festival to meet and greet, then ridden off to save a village on Nayan's land from a plague and are just coming back to the city with some suspiciously sorcerous-looking bones.

Again, not seeing a lot of motivation here, just characters meandering. That's not to say that motive doesn't exist, just that it's not apparent here.

The elephant in the room at court is the ghost of the Takkarian Empire.  The province of Manjipe is all that's left of that vast country, now swallowed by Shadow.

OK, we'll keep that in mind as background. Are any of the PCs invovled in the issue? That is, do they have goals that revolve around this fact? If not, then I'm afraid that it would be bad advice to tell you to make it a central issue. Instead use it as backdrop for what the players are really interested in, in terms of their characters.

The other issue, which I probably should have mentioned first except that it's not yet well-defined, is the vampire.  One of the players mentioned that he thought it would be neat if there was a vampire stirring up intrigue at court.  I liked the idea, and I hope that by now I've embellished it enough to still hold some surprises for him.  

Which NPC is the vampire? He's not on the list. So you're saying that he's a "monster" and not an NPC? Vampires are the ultimate NPC. He should be at court, seeing people at night, fooling everyone into thinking he's just some harmless member of the retinue or something. That is, why not have it that he previously insinuated himself into the court, and is now just another NPC for the players to meet. Who they'll then be stunned to find out is a vampire when it happens.

Or won't that work at this point?

With regards to the above NPCs, the book that Dhavlesh has (that he stole from Nayan) belonged to the vampire, who wants it back. He can't take it directly because Dhavlesh has learned enough from the book to protect himself magically.  A less direct approach is required--and besides, the vampire was originally from Manjipe before falling to the Shadow, so he probably has old grudges to settle at court.

He's even got the perfect NPC motive - a reason to need the PCs to get something for him.

Stephan is approached by Asha, who's received a note claiming that he can expose her father's secrets.  She will plead with him not to betray her father, offering herself as the only payment she has.  (Note that Stephan has no such secrets, although he may eventually piece them together.)

To be clear, some party X sent the note claiming that Stephen has her secrets? Who was the sender? Why did he send the note?

To sweeten the deal if he seems disinterested,

Disinterested in dropping the curiosity that he'll presumably have once she starts telling him about the note? This is assuming something, I think. What if Stephen's player stops her and tells her that he sent no such note? What if he takes the honest approach? Actually, that works out fine, I think, because it says that he's honest. But none of the extra fallout that you discuss will occur if he goes this rout.

I have a feeling that I'm missing something here.

she'll offer to have a Seer verify her words--after all, why should he believe her?

Verify that she's willing to go to bed with him? There seems to be a simple enough verification method there.

Then, finally, she's even willing to marry him if he gives his word not to persecute Nayan.  

Cool. Again, however, I sense that it won't get to this point.

I keep getting this vision of how the scene would have to play out, and it's a tad comedic:

Asha: Stephen, I've learned that you know my father's secrets, and I've come to make a deal.
Stephen: What are you talking about?
Asha: A letter arrived telling me all about how you know of the horrors that my father has performed.
Stephen: I sent no le...
Asha: Don't deny it, you're going to tell everyone, and get him burned at the stake.
Stephen: I don't even know what your tal...
Asha: Playing it coy, eh? I'll make it plain. If you give me your word that you won't tell anyone, I'll...I'll...oh I can't say it.
Stephen: um, ah, wha?
Asha: You can take me. <Throws her head back and heaves out her bosom in surrender.>
Stephen: What exactly have you been drinking, Asha. I have no...
Asha: Fine, you get your way, I will marry you. Are you satisfied now?
Stephen: Uh, sure, I guess.

You might want to "lead" into this somewhat so that Stephen's player is more prepared. Like somebody letting him know that Asha seems to be worried about Stephen for some reason. Then he might be looking for blood in the water when she comes to him.

Assuming nothing else demands the screen time, I'll then turn to Barbon, in a scene that happens concurrently.

Bangs shouldn't neccessarily be scheduled like this. Ask the players what they're doing first, and then insinuate them when they make the most sense. Doesn't mean that you can't follow one upon another. Just that you don't need to plan this out neccessarily. Bangs are not a script for the session, they are events to throw in when neccessary.

He's approached by Delfino, Vitale's assistant (who is completely infatuated with Asha).  Delfino will explain that he knows Barbon is a Seer,

How does he know? The player will want to know, and will ask, in-character if he has to, to find out, given that he's been hiding it so far. So you have to have a damn good reason for how he knows. Perhaps another seer discovered the fact? Or he has some magic item that he got specifically to track down a seer? Whatever is the simplest and most plausible reason. If you can link it back into play somehow that's cool, but allow the player to basically have "gotten away" with being incognito for the moment. Or he'll resent you destroying all that effort that he's put into it with just fiat.

In fact, you might want to make a contest of it, just to make it seem more fair. Give the magic item like 10W3 to detect Seers, and have him try to resist. If he manages to succeed somehow, let him continue to get away with it. Make it seem like he's really dodged something. Have him note Delfino, however, and try to make the player curious about why he has such an object. He may follow up himself.

Yeah, his turtling is precisely what we're trying to crack, but you have to do it carefully.

and that he needs Barbon to read someone's mind because one of Delfino's friends is about to make a terrible mistake.  That'd be Asha, of course.  Delfino tried to talk her out of believing the note, but she panicked.  So, he wants Barbon to read the thoughts of Dhavlesh, who he thinks sent the note.  He'll explain that he's heard of the financial troubles of Barbon's family up north, and he could persuade Vitale to exert influence on their behalf.  The question:  Will Barbon choose professional ethics or prosperity for his family?

So was it Dhavlesh? Why would he pressure Asha like this? Or is it that he was going to approach her, and she jumped the gun and assumed that the annonymous note must be from Stephen? What is it he wants from Asha? Is it simple blackmail? What will he do when he hears that she thinks it Stephen? Won't he try to clear things up?

It probably won't come up for a few sessions at least, but I'm thinking of making the vampire Lokesh's grand- or great-grandfather.  He's the only PC from the area, and has been the most concerned so far with his family, so using that tie is irresistable.

Cool. Again even more cool if the character is at court and he finds out that the charming guy that's been cozying up to them is, in fact Lokesh's great-grandfather. Like learning first that some innocuous dude is, in fact, Darth Vader, before learning that he's Luke's father.

I could use any of the following:  feedback on the bangs I've worked up, suggestions for more (especially for Barbon), questions about the NPCs, or anything else that comes to mind.  :)  I'm also noticing that my bang ideas so far include isolating the PC in question, because I'm worried that one of the others would say something and make the decision via peer pressure instead of character development.  Is this normal?

It's normal to isloate PCs when neccessary to make a Bang. But it's not always neccessary. That is, sometimes it's even more fun if the character has other PCs influencing them. Think about the IRC game; we often have people catcalling from the peanut gallery with their suggestions. That's normal. The player still has the last word about what the character does, so they can still do whatever they want. But if the do something crowd pleasing, then that makes the game all the more entertaining for everyone. So, rather than worry about "interference" by other players, encourage it.

Mike

[Adrienne]

Yikes.  Good feedback.  I'm not sure what I'll do if I can't get things straightened out by tomorrow night, since I suspect my ideas might be equally confusing for my players.

OK, you give only a small amount of detail for the PCs, and lots for the NPCs. All backwards. Bangs are not about finding out what the NPCs are doing that's interesting to the PCs. Bangs are about finding out the PCs issues, and making the NPCs do things to bring those out. You may be doing this already, but it's hard for us to help if we don't know the PC motives.

Well, I didn't want to completely regurgitate what I've posted on the other thread about them.  CPXB has stated explicitly that Stephan is looking for land and hopefully a wife, since his character doesn't stand to inherit and land is "easy" to come by on the Border.  (Easy in the sense that it's more available than in Seynyor, although holding it can be difficult.)  Also, like many Seynyoreans, he has a strong sense of duty to fight against the Shadow, even though it's not his country.  

Lokesh wants to get out and see more of the world, or at least the big city.  He'd like to distinguish himself in his family's eyes, as well as get out from under their thumb for a bit.  He's also a second son, so no big inheritance coming unless he makes one for himself.

Barbon has come south to fight the Shadow.  Also, his family has recently fallen on hard times, so he wants to relieve them of the burden of supporting him.

OK, we'll keep that in mind as background. Are any of the PCs invovled in the issue? That is, do they have goals that revolve around this fact? If not, then I'm afraid that it would be bad advice to tell you to make it a central issue. Instead use it as backdrop for what the players are really interested in, in terms of their characters.

Backdrop is pretty much what I had in mind for this element, yes.  I threw it into my post because it seemed like it might convey a bit of the flavor I'm going for.

Which NPC is the vampire? He's not on the list. So you're saying that he's a "monster" and not an NPC? Vampires are the ultimate NPC. He should be at court, seeing people at night, fooling everyone into thinking he's just some harmless member of the retinue or something. That is, why not have it that he previously insinuated himself into the court, and is now just another NPC for the players to meet. Who they'll then be stunned to find out is a vampire when it happens.

I haven't put him in yet because I've only recently gotten a firmer idea of who he should be and what he wants.  I could definitely introduce him at this point, though.  It's tempting to introduce him and mention that "he looks strangely familiar," but then I'd have contests on my hands and maybe give the whole game away in the fourth session.  :)

Stephan is approached by Asha, who's received a note claiming that he can expose her father's secrets.  She will plead with him not to betray her father, offering herself as the only payment she has.  (Note that Stephan has no such secrets, although he may eventually piece them together.)

To be clear, some party X sent the note claiming that Stephen has her secrets? Who was the sender? Why did he send the note?

Yes, Party X is aware that Asha scares easily, and is using her to make Stephan suspicious of Nayan.  Right now, he has only mild reasons to distrust Nayan, but another clue pointing in his direction may be enough to get him on the trail.  That would, hopefully, keep him distracted from the sender of the note, who is either Dhavlesh or the vampire--I hadn't decided yet.

Disinterested in dropping the curiosity that he'll presumably have once she starts telling him about the note? This is assuming something, I think. What if Stephen's player stops her and tells her that he sent no such note? What if he takes the honest approach? Actually, that works out fine, I think, because it says that he's honest. But none of the extra fallout that you discuss will occur if he goes this rout.

I have a feeling that I'm missing something here.

No, you've got a good point--what if he cuts her off before she can finish?  I'm fairly sure, although I could be wrong, that the player's curiosity will mean that Stephan will question her further even if they only get to step one of your (hilarious) predicted scene below.  If I'm wrong, I suppose I could let things rest there.

she'll offer to have a Seer verify her words--after all, why should he believe her?

Verify that she's willing to go to bed with him? There seems to be a simple enough verification method there.

Hehe.  No, verify that her father did something sort of shady in the past, which his enemies might use against him, but that he's done nothing seriously wrong.  That she's throwing herself at Stephan to prevent a  character assassination, not to cover up an actual heinous crime on Nayan's part.

You might want to "lead" into this somewhat so that Stephen's player is more prepared. Like somebody letting him know that Asha seems to be worried about Stephen for some reason. Then he might be looking for blood in the water when she comes to him.

That's easy enough to slip in, and if you think it'll sharpen his curiosity, well worth it.  

Bangs shouldn't neccessarily be scheduled like this. Ask the players what they're doing first, and then insinuate them when they make the most sense. Doesn't mean that you can't follow one upon another. Just that you don't need to plan this out neccessarily. Bangs are not a script for the session, they are events to throw in when neccessary.

It might be my newness at using bangs, but I'm having a little trouble finding ways to insert them in any arbitrary time and place.  (I wanted to do this particular one immediately afterwards because I thought it might add some interest if the players notice that they're seeing another facet of the same issue Stephan was just involved in.)  More on that in a minute...

He's approached by Delfino, Vitale's assistant (who is completely infatuated with Asha).  Delfino will explain that he knows Barbon is a Seer,

How does he know? The player will want to know, and will ask, in-character if he has to, to find out, given that he's been hiding it so far. So you have to have a damn good reason for how he knows. Perhaps another seer discovered the fact? Or he has some magic item that he got specifically to track down a seer? Whatever is the simplest and most plausible reason. If you can link it back into play somehow that's cool, but allow the player to basically have "gotten away" with being incognito for the moment. Or he'll resent you destroying all that effort that he's put into it with just fiat.

I was actually planning to do something much more mundane than detection by magic.  Delfino has been reading Vitale's papers, and I was planning to make Vitale financially associated with Barbon's family (which is why Delfino can offer to help the family if Barbon does what he wants).  So, Vitale and thus Delfino is aware that Barbon has been through Seer training, since that's not a secret process.  I didn't think that would be too intrusive, since only a few people will know.  

So was it Dhavlesh? Why would he pressure Asha like this? Or is it that he was going to approach her, and she jumped the gun and assumed that the annonymous note must be from Stephen? What is it he wants from Asha? Is it simple blackmail? What will he do when he hears that she thinks it Stephen? Won't he try to clear things up?

I haven't decided if it was Dhavlesh or the vampire who sent the note.  The note will actually have said that Stephan is about to expose her father, which is why she'll go to him.  So, the sender won't have any interest in clearing up why she went to Stephan, because that's exactly what he wanted.  Sorry if that was unclear in my post; hopefully I'll do a little better in presenting it at the game.

Cool. Again even more cool if the character is at court and he finds out that the charming guy that's been cozying up to them is, in fact Lokesh's great-grandfather. Like learning first that some innocuous dude is, in fact, Darth Vader, before learning that he's Luke's father.

Yeah, I'm definitely seeing the appeal of introducing him now.  Lokesh could definitely use a buddy to commiserate about the hard ranching life, how it sucks being a second son, etc.

Since I posted this, CPXB and I did some brainstorming and came up with a second bang for Barbon--a secret group of sorcerers and corrupted Seers trying to recruit him.  (To tie them into the above, the group is part of Dhavlesh's new social circle, but one or more of the members is a pawn of the vampire, working to get to Dhavlesh.  I hope I'm not getting too complicated for my own good, here.)  I see a couple of options for introducing them, right now.  Either a member of the group was eavesdropping on Delfino and Barbon's conversation, or I could go the magical detection route you suggested above.  The only thing that worries me about the latter is that I have little confidence that the player will pursue the matter if Barbon makes the resistance roll.

Anyway, my rough plan there is for someone to approach Barbon, feel him out about the club, and then propose some sort of oath or initiation activity.  If Barbon balks, it'll be "well, you've heard to much to just walk out now," probably followed by a physical or character assassination attempt.

[Kerstin Schmidt]

Ok, first: open the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.  Read the large, friendly letters that appear as you open it: ~DON'T PANIC.~  :) Seriously.

You'll do fine.  You were already doing fine before, even when you weren't using bangs. You were all having fun playing. You're now merely adding another GMing technique to what you were already doing, that's all.  At the worst your bangs will not operate as bangs, but you'll still have introduced NPCs and NPC goals to work with in the future. So relax and enjoy your game tonight, it's going to be good.  


Second, a few points, not all of them necessarily relevant for this session, or not only this one. This bang-preparation thingie means that after a little while you end up with tons more material than you'll ever need, and your players will help by adding more through their play.

CPXB has stated explicitly that Stephan is looking for land and hopefully a wife, since his character doesn't stand to inherit and land is "easy" to come by on the Border.  

Oh cool. Asha would really fit that bill then, wouldn't she? So have her eager to meet Stephen/come to know him better. Maybe she's in love with him (or falls in love later);  maybe she's merely pretending because she needs help ... oh, say because of the evil book. Perhaps the family needs it back because its destiny is linked to it somehow (some curse).  

She might confide in him that someone is "having power" over her father, blackmailing him or similar. Heck, she could ask Stephen whether he knows any seers who could help track down the villain with the chokehold on her family.  If you present her as vulnerable-and-cool, I'll bet you Barbon's player will perk up. Stephen of couse can't help with a seer at this point, so have some other favour ready that Asha could ask of him.  Also have her give Stephen some inside information that gives him a chance to do something that makes him look good in front of Nayan.  

And if they've already had a conversation about Stephen "knowing" her secrets as you were planning, all the better. So have her come back and try a new approach. Perhaps at that point let her complain about an NPC who's pestering her with his unwanted love and she's beginning to be worried about him - perhaps Stephen could escort her to the dance tonight? If going to the dance with her means he has to skip doing something else (such as meeting another possibly interesting contact for dinner), it's a bang. If not, then it's just an event building towards future bangs.  If at the dance Stephen has to confront Ashas's admirer (who is another important lord's son), he'll have to choose: help her out by insulting him / shoving him out of the way? hang back because he doesn't want the son as an enemy? convince Asha to go out into the garden for "fresh air" to avoid the meeting? At which point of course she'll want kissing... and so on.  Tons of options.  

Lokesh wants to get out and see more of the world, or at least the big city.  He'd like to distinguish himself in his family's eyes, as well as get out from under their thumb for a bit.  He's also a second son, so no big inheritance coming unless he makes one for himself.

Play with Lokesh has also given you two more NPCs to work with:  his father and Sujit. As long as Sujit isn't a follower, use him.  I don't know what the problem is with him, so it's hard to get ideas - maybe have people come after him, or have Lokesh realise (perhaps through another NPC who tells him) that his new servant is having clandestine meetings with strange people.

Barbon has come south to fight the Shadow.  Also, his family has recently fallen on hard times, so he wants to relieve them of the burden of supporting him.

Cool, a possible conflict. If you want to get him embroiled, have a family member arrive, desperate for financial support for the family, before anyone approaches him for seer services.  
Or if it's plausible, have a family member be thrown in prison for an alleged crime... like stealing Nayan's Family Book.  Make sure Barbon knows the book thief must be somewhere around, so he'll have a strong incentive to investigate. Perhaps things are happening to Nayan and family that can only have been done by someone who knows the book.  

It's tempting to introduce him and mention that "he looks strangely familiar," but then I'd have contests on my hands and maybe give the whole game away in the fourth session.  :)

No you won't. All you'll be giving away, at a maximum, is as much of the game as you've planned out up to now. Trust yourself and your players to come with lots more stuff beyond that once it becomes relevant.

I was actually planning to do something much more mundane than detection by magic.  Delfino has been reading Vitale's papers, and I was planning to make Vitale financially associated with Barbon's family (which is why Delfino can offer to help the family if Barbon does what he wants).  So, Vitale and thus Delfino is aware that Barbon has been through Seer training, since that's not a secret process.  I didn't think that would be too intrusive, since only a few people will know.  

The only thing that worries me about the latter is that I have little confidence that the player will pursue the matter if Barbon makes the resistance roll.

I dunno. Why would he pursue the matter anyway? Unsavoury, corrupted people talking to him. What's his benefit in even hearing them out? When already he hasn't been using his powers all by himself?

If Barbon balks, it'll be "well, you've heard to much to just walk out now," probably followed by a physical or character assassination attempt.

What if he walks away and refuses to listen? What if he denounces the club to the authorities? Those are all valid options I think. Just be prepared for the player to make a choice like that and run with it.

If he walks, let him walk. Then maybe next thing he hears is that a guy with a nervous face tic (just like the one who approached him) was talking to the couple who cashed in on the reward for denouncing Barbon's relative, the one accused of stealing the "family book".

If he goes to the authorities, have them be grateful.  Give him a reward. let him know that the authorities are looking to replenish their cadre of seers after the recent losses to [insert Shadow vileness]. Don't put pressure on him to reveal himself, but play the authority people as being pretty certain that he must be a seer. (Like in the films: detective hands over a card. "If you change your mind, call.")

If on the other hand he shows interest, put in some more stages. "All right. You want to hear more? Come talk to the boss. Midnight, behind the graveyard." Cut to midnight, behind graveyard. Have him swear an oath of secrecy about what he's going to hear next.

Then if he swears, tell him more stuff. Again, if he says no after that, let him walk away.  Tell him to remember his oath. "We'll be watching."

Then you'll have two sets of NPCs set up who may come back to him in the past to ask for help:  the authorities; and the unsavouries.  (Not to mention his unlucky family member, if you decide to go for that.)  Much material for future bangs, and for now you give the player a chance to feel that his character is important and has options.

Just some ideas - and good luck for the game! You'll have fun.

[Adrienne]

Heh.  I've reminded myself, "DON'T PANIC."  For good measure, I even installed the "I must not fear" extension for Firefox.  I should be golden.

And if they've already had a conversation about Stephen "knowing" her secrets as you were planning, all the better. So have her come back and try a new approach. Perhaps at that point let her complain about an NPC who's pestering her with his unwanted love and she's beginning to be worried about him - perhaps Stephen could escort her to the dance tonight? If going to the dance with her means he has to skip doing something else (such as meeting another possibly interesting contact for dinner), it's a bang. If not, then it's just an event building towards future bangs.  If at the dance Stephen has to confront Ashas's admirer (who is another important lord's son), he'll have to choose: help her out by insulting him / shoving him out of the way? hang back because he doesn't want the son as an enemy? convince Asha to go out into the garden for "fresh air" to avoid the meeting? At which point of course she'll want kissing... and so on.  Tons of options.

This is great.  Asha's little screen time in the past has portrayed her as painfully shy, so approaching him romantically would be out of character... unless he'd handled her difficulty about the note with discretion.  (If he didn't, of course, she'll still need to have some handle on him to keep him from giving her trouble in the future.)  I even have a party planned, although I don't think we'll get to it tonight.  I'd planned for Asha to not show, because the people there aren't really her crowd, but if she has a protector (or thinks she does), that's a different story.

Play with Lokesh has also given you two more NPCs to work with:  his father and Sujit. As long as Sujit isn't a follower, use him.  I don't know what the problem is with him, so it's hard to get ideas - maybe have people come after him, or have Lokesh realise (perhaps through another NPC who tells him) that his new servant is having clandestine meetings with strange people.

I suspect he'll be buying him as a follower, but even then I could still use some of this.  I like it, because I already have some strange people for him to meet with/be attacked by.  Although I haven't figured out how, I'm thinking that Sujit's family (through his dad, who was Lokesh's mentor) are mixed up in the vampire business somehow--maybe they're one of the grudges that the vampire wants to settle.  There's also another NPC who's been mentioned in the game, but only as a background piece:  Lokesh is staying in town with a friend of his father, because he's too cheap to pay for his own room.  He might come up soon.

Cool, a possible conflict. If you want to get him embroiled, have a family member arrive, desperate for financial support for the family, before anyone approaches him for seer services.  
Or if it's plausible, have a family member be thrown in prison for an alleged crime... like stealing Nayan's Family Book.

Awesome.  The first I can definitely manage now--Barbon is an only child, but everyone has cousins.  The second would be a little harder to figure out for tonight, but I can work it in later (assuming the player doesn't hate this bang stuff, that is).

I dunno. Why would he pursue the matter anyway? Unsavoury, corrupted people talking to him. What's his benefit in even hearing them out? When already he hasn't been using his powers all by himself?

Although I might fail, my intent is to present Delfino as a guy who's not unsavory, just worried about his friend and a little desperate.  For the other group that approaches Barbon, I'll do my best to hint that they can offer him training and knowledge that he's unlikely to find elsewhere.  While they aren't as nice as Delfino, I don't plan to have them wear their "eeeeeeevil" badges on the first meeting--just a little threatening because of the secrecy.  :)


(snip)

Then you'll have two sets of NPCs set up who may come back to him in the past to ask for help:  the authorities; and the unsavouries.  (Not to mention his unlucky family member, if you decide to go for that.)  Much material for future bangs, and for now you give the player a chance to feel that his character is important and has options.

Your suggestions were less direct than I intended, because I suspect that he might evade all the major consequences (join the cult or they send guys after you, for example) if I don't put them inevitably in his path.  That is, I think the player is timid enough to avoid all excitement if I let him.  But who knows?  Having two sets of people seek him out and try to recruit him, plus some money pressure from his family, might be enough excitement for one evening.  Hmm.

[Mike Holmes]

Like Kerstin says, you'll be fine.

Well, I didn't want to completely regurgitate what I've posted on the other thread about them.  

OK, but what would help is a sort of "deeper" analysis. What you've got here and in those previous posts is what the players put down as goals. Which, it might surprise you to know, often do not equate to issues for the character. For example, Stephan is looking to get land and such. OK, that gives him one motive, but nothing opposing it at all. And, in fact, is this what really interests the player about the character? What you're looking for is what the player is really interested in terms of the character's evolution (it might be, actually, but it might not). For example, does Stephen's player like to do a lot of intrigue sorts of stuff? Does he have fun investigating how well his character can fight? Take these sorts of things, and base the conflicts off of them with the goals as a backdrop for them.

Ironically, we know more about Barbon's players interests (or lack of them) than any other player's because you've been trying so hard to figure out what he's interested in.

What's important is to determine several things that are important to the character, such that they can be thrown into opposition. What relationships have they relied on in play? What personality traits? What other abilities? What have they spent HP on increasing? What makes them animated when playing?

I haven't put him in yet because I've only recently gotten a firmer idea of who he should be and what he wants.  I could definitely introduce him at this point, though.  It's tempting to introduce him and mention that "he looks strangely familiar," but then I'd have contests on my hands and maybe give the whole game away in the fourth session.  :)

I agree with Kerstin. You seem to have this timeframe in mind. But, if he isn't "strangely familiar" at first, then how do you plan to reveal his nature? How long will be long enough for the players to find out?

Like Kerstin says, more will come to you. Or, possibly the plot will all wrap up - what's wrong with a four session plot? Basically, you'll make it work out no matter what happens. It's a pretty natural process. You just have to give up a tad on the control of the pace through revealing things, and get to revealing more. What I'd do is have the revelation of who the vampire is as a Bang that you'll be ready with when the time is right. But consider sooner rather than later. My best example is that in the TV show "The Saint" the first thing that happens in each episode at the end of the opening gambit is that Simon Templar's cover is blown. Still they somehow manage to get an entire plot out of each episode.

Secrets aren't the key to plot, character issues are. Only once the character issues are all resolved is it time for the story to end. So they chase the vampire off? Big deal, he'll be out there lurking and waiting to plot his revenge or to otherwise interact with the PCs. Which is more suspenseful than them not knowing that there's a vampire out there waiting to get them.

Yes, Party X is aware that Asha scares easily, and is using her to make Stephan suspicious of Nayan.  Right now, he has only mild reasons to distrust Nayan, but another clue pointing in his direction may be enough to get him on the trail.  That would, hopefully, keep him distracted from the sender of the note, who is either Dhavlesh or the vampire--I hadn't decided yet.

It's fine not to know which - in fact that's a good technique IMO. But what you should know is why each of them might be doing it. If the idea is to throw Stephen off the trail of the sender why send a note to Asha? How does messing with Asha's mind relate to all of this? Wouldn't the sender worry that Asha's conversation with Stephen might go like:

Asha: So, what have you heard about my family, Stephen?
Stephen: Nothing, why do you ask?
Asha: Oh, no reason.

Does the sender know Asha well enough to know that she'll stress-out and confront Stephen directly (even if that's what you have planned as GM)? I can't see how sending the note to Asha makes it any less suspicious - is that what you were angling for?

The dichotomy here, as you have it, is curiosity vs potential wife. Well, consider a better way to get at this dichotomy that's less convoluted. Why not have them send the note directly to Stephen? Make it look like a friendly warning that Nayan might be up to no good with dark forces.

Then have Asha come on to Stephen. Then if he questions her about her father, or prys into his business, she says not to ask, or the relationship is off. And the player must then decide.

It might be my newness at using bangs, but I'm having a little trouble finding ways to insert them in any arbitrary time and place.  (I wanted to do this particular one immediately afterwards because I thought it might add some interest if the players notice that they're seeing another facet of the same issue Stephan was just involved in.)  

Again, I think the problem is that you're not doing scene framing. You're relying on the players to drive where the scenes go using character info as their guide. You need to just take control at some points in play, close a scene, and just say to CPBX, "Later in your chamber you find a letter that warns you that Nayan might be in league with the dark - but it's unsigned. As you finish reading, Asha comes into your room and asks if you enjoyed the festivities giving you a fetching glance." And you're all set.

Delfino has been reading Vitale's papers, and I was planning to make Vitale financially associated with Barbon's family (which is why Delfino can offer to help the family if Barbon does what he wants).  So, Vitale and thus Delfino is aware that Barbon has been through Seer training, since that's not a secret process.  I didn't think that would be too intrusive, since only a few people will know.

Quite good. That's about perfect. You may want to make sure that, if you haven't already established it, that you make sure that Barbon's player knows about the link with Vitale. Before the bang happens, so that it seems like a natural evolution.

Since I posted this, CPXB and I did some brainstorming and came up with a second bang for Barbon--a secret group of sorcerers and corrupted Seers trying to recruit him.

I agree with Kerstin here, generally. What does the group offer him? If we assume that your above analysis is correct, and he's about Family vs Fighting Darkness or the like, what part of this is satisified by joining the sorcerers if they're corrupt.

Now, if by "corrupt" you mean merely morally grey and pragmatic - a group that operates outside the bounds of the law because they have an agenda that's not leaning towards the dark side particularly- then you may have something. If they, say, offer him ways to combat the Shadow, then he has to wiegh the benefits against the costs of being caught (for example he can no longer help his family out if he's incarcerated). Or, on the other side of the coin, maybe they are corrupt, but they offer to help out his family a lot if he joins them?

(To tie them into the above, the group is part of Dhavlesh's new social circle, but one or more of the members is a pawn of the vampire, working to get to Dhavlesh.  I hope I'm not getting too complicated for my own good, here.)

Nah, not too complicated. Again, however, be revealing information, not hiding it. If the players have too many missing pieces about what's going on around them, then they'll lose track of where they might want to go.

In any case, there has to be some reason why the pawn hasn't been succesful to date. Perhaps make him an incompetent Igor sort.

I see a couple of options for introducing them, right now.  Either a member of the group was eavesdropping on Delfino and Barbon's conversation, or I could go the magical detection route you suggested above.  The only thing that worries me about the latter is that I have little confidence that the player will pursue the matter if Barbon makes the resistance roll.

Simple, Delfino tells Dhavlish that Barbon is a seer for some reason (possibly to try to get Dhavlish's aid with Asha?). Dhavlish tells his group.

Anyway, my rough plan there is for someone to approach Barbon, feel him out about the club, and then propose some sort of oath or initiation activity.  If Barbon balks, it'll be "well, you've heard to much to just walk out now," probably followed by a physical or character assassination attempt.

Whatever you do, do not actually say the quote above from the sorcerer NPC to the player. That's likely to be seen as GM Force, meaning that the GM isn't giving the player a choice, and that he has to comply (or likely lose his character or something else bad). Instead, if he walks just have the attack happen as a consequence of the decision.

Actually, even that is a tad problematic. Because the player might feel that they're being "punished" for making the "wrong" decision. Better is to offer an opportunity from that action, rather than a punishment. For example, you could have the contact happen annonymously, meaning that since he doens't know who they are, that they don't have any incentive to kill him. The for a follow up repercussion, have a female sorcerer from the group fall for Barbon, due to his principles. She comes out to him, and hits on him. But she doesn't want to quit being a Sorcerer. So the question becomes "Girl vs Turning In a Sorcerer."

BTW, this all makes a lot of sense. The Sorcerers have done some ritual to protect Dhavlesh from the vampire, hence why he can't get the book. In any case, this strongly suggests that the vampire will approach somebody to get the book for him, most likely Barbon if he's had contact with somebody in the group. Or, anyone who's met Dhavlesh could be asked to do it. The question is what can the vampire offer? My guess for any of them is that he says he has influence at court that he'll use to benefit them socially (income, land, marrying, etc), if they steal the book for him. Does he know which sorcerer has it, however?

If there's that incompetent Igor character, then, of course, he asks the player to help him with getting the book, promising that his powerful patron will help the character out (who his patron is may or may not be obvious). In any case, at some point, somebody finds out that the Igor belongs to Grandfather Vampire. This is a good way to "cross" characters up - one PC who knows that another is meeting with the Igor sees the Igor talking to the vampire, and thus has information that the other PC would want. Players in this situation tend to make bangs out of them of the, "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" type.

Another Bang that's sitting there unwritten up, Tulasi makes a move on somebody that she thinks is on his way up. She can, of course, tell somebody about Dhavlesh and the book if she trusts them.

Hmm. How about Fiora throws herself at Stephan (I have no idea if this makes sense or not given how the NPC has been portrayed). She can promise to get her husband to help him, but, of course, it's dangerous. Subsequently, vicar Maldeo comes home, of course.

Always make sure that if somebody has one love interest that they soon aquire another. :-)

Um, how about Vitale needs somebody to steal an important document so he can blackmail somebody with it, so he can return home from this post he hates so much. He offers to talk to the higherups about land/income/wives if they help him. Of course, the person that he needs the document stolen from is somebody that the PC has become in love with or fast friends with, and they don't want to give it up for the world.

Just some more ideas. Note that they all work off of your sketchy list of motives. With a better idea of player interests in terms of their characters, the "grabs" would be more varied.

Mike

[Mike Holmes]

Believe it or not, the above post is a cross-post. :-)

Mike

[Adrienne]

This post might ramble a bit, as I try to combine commentary on the latest session, responses to previous posts, and my own musings.  (Not to say that my previous posts didn't ramble, but oh, well.)


Player Goals

Stephan's player, CPXB, is both the most familiar to me and the clearest about what he wants.  He likes to see the same things in RPGs as in fiction:  sex, violence, and intrigue, in no particular order.  Game groups being what they are, the latter two are easiest to work in, but I'll be trying to add a little sex (or at least references to it).  He likes to play characters who do a few things very well; Stephan is built to fight and to be charming, although not very perceptive.

Lokesh's player is the next most scrutable.  In previous games, he's played a steady pattern of strong, upright types--paladins in D&D, bricks in superhero games, that sort of thing.  Lokesh is less geared towards physical strength than his previous characters, but is firmly rooted in his community and upbringing as a rancher.  He's put a fair bit of thought into voluntarily lowering several of his keyword abilities, to reflect how he sees the character.  I'm not sure how he feels about complicated moral dilemmas, but my past experience leads me to believe that he'll give a good solid try at anything I throw his way.

Barbon's player has been discussed extensively on the actual play thread, heh.  In summary, he's a new player, very timid and suggestible, who wants the other characters (and players) to see Barbon as "cool" but isn't sure how to make that happen.  I think that his previous gaming experience has impressed him with the urge to seek more power for his character, and not to think through the story ramifications of his choices.


Past and Future Bangs

I still need lots of practice at making bangs, since I don't think that any of the ones I tried this session were really sharp.  (The game was very interesting, but I don't think any of the players had the feeling of making hard choices.)  I guess I'll post more about the ones I tried over on the actual play thread, where CPXB can chip in.  

I realized as we talked about the game over dinner that I have to think about bangs in a different way for each player.  That might be obvious for experienced folks, but it's new for me.  :)  CPXB is an extremely decisive player; I don't think I've ever seen him genuinely uncertain about his character's next course of action.  It might be that I can't make bangs for him, which is okay because both he and I are enjoying the game.  On the other hand, Lokesh's player shares my own tendency to waffle and try to have it both ways, so I can get multiple uses out of essentially the same bang for him.  Barbon's player I think will go for obvious personal power, then the least risky path, then any extra concerns (like helping Barbon's family).  He might have a harder time choosing if I really play up the "lower-ranked" element, like having a family member actually there to plead with him, but it'll be a couple of weeks before I can try that out.

I'm hoping that the next two sessions, with Stephan and Lokesh, will be fruitful ones.  We've now been playing for long enough that everyone has some interest in their characters, and they've formed connections with a number of NPCs (though not purchased any relationships yet).  Although I still think that Stephan may be difficult or impossible to target with by-the-book "bangs," I think I can arrange things so that the choices and actions of his character (no matter how easy for him to decide) will still lead to the kind of play that he likes.  And I'll keep trying--I might surprise us both.  I'll post more specific ideas later, ruthlessly plagiarizing the suggestions in this thread.

[Kerstin Schmidt]

I'm posting my reply to your session 4 play report over here because there's bang-related stuff in it.  

In the above session summary, only the first part (up through Barbon's masked visitor) was planned by me.  The rest of the happenings were entirely suggested by the players, which was very fun.  

Cool stuff. It sounds like a very fun session.  From your writeup it looks like you were framing scenes this time round, correct?  You now have nice grabs on all your players I think (although Chris is spitting and kicking to escape his, it looks like...).

The two visitors to Barbon were quite funny.  He was all about following the rules when Delfino offered to help his family, but I saw his eyes light up when his masked visitor dangled new powers in front of his face.  

Wonderful. He's beginning to care about something, that's great.  

I didn't think I was being especially subtle with the Dark Side schtick, but he didn't seem at all perturbed that a masked man wanted him to swear an oath of secrecy for access to rare texts and training.  

I dunno. I'm going to have to take Barbon's player's side on this one.  

What's so Dark Side about a masked man and an oath of secrecy?  For all Barbon (or his player) knows, the explanation about his teachers withholding information could be literally true.  It didn't sound implausible, in fact it's something that highly gifted people are confronted with a lot in their education and upbringing.  

And just because an association isn't offically recognised or government-funded (like universities), it isn't automatically on the Dark Side.  Or does that kind of clear distinction exist in the setting you're playing in perhaps? The good guys are always official and the bad guys ain't?

And of course it's nice to hear (and very easy to believe) that your character has been recognised as "dangerously gifted" by his teachers - it immediately makes the character a lot cooler.  Which if I'm right is great. Because you now have something that the player cares about, that will make the character cool in his eyes and is so going to draw him into the game. If you'll let him.  :) More right below.

Oh, well.  I'll have the "blood opera" talk with him before it goes as far as the character getting a magic keyword, and we'll see where things go.  

I don't know what a blood opera talk is, so I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here.  Are you planning to tell the player to beware when he decides to join the secret assocation?  When, not if.  Because I'll bet you, unless you dangle freshly slaughtered babies in front of his eyes in mid-negotiation, join he will.  Heck, I would.  It sounds too cool to pass up.  

Let me continue to make the player's case here and plead with you not to destroy the coolness he sees.  Unless secret associations are bad guys by definition in your setting, consider letting these ones actually be good guys basically.  Perhaps they could be a bunch of highly-gifteds who fight against the enviously guarded monopoly of the universities or something.  

He'll love his character to be highly-gifted, and valued for that, and be "in" on some secrets. You can always put him in a lot of interesting scrapes once he joins and the association gets into trouble with the authorities - but by then he'll have something worth fighting for.  

Obviously even a secret association of good guys may have some rotten apples in it, so you can still introduce unsavoury seers through the same channel you are planning now. But it won't be as disillusioning to the player as if the entire association turns out to be a rotten sham.

He got a major victory, and the resistance was lower than Chris expected.  I admitted that I was making things up as I went along, and would have made the resistance higher if I'd had it to do over.  

Next time just say, "Yes, strange how low the resistance was, wasn't it? Suspiciously low, wasn't it really. Wonder why that is..."

And play off of that in the future. So perhaps Nayan was a little insane again that day, or distracted because he'd just received a death threat from the book's thief. Or perhaps he's giving in to Stephen on the face of it, but is secretly relieved that Stephen is headed right where Nayan wants him for his own sinister designs? Or something.

And don't worry too much about NPC stats. I'd suggest that instead you give yourself a brief time out from the game whenever you need a moment to think.  Go get a drink, wander to the bathroom;  or just sit back, consult the table at the end of the book and tell your players that you need a minute to position the NPC right for this particular contest. No one expects you to have everything prepared in advance in your style of play. Gamist groups do, for fairness-of-challenge reasons, but by its very nature narr play will move off the beaten track and into scenes, conflicts and contests no one had been planning for.

[Kerstin Schmidt]

He likes to play characters who do a few things very well; Stephan is built to fight and to be charming, although not very perceptive.

Not perceptive, eh? Well then, all the more reason for him to worry about why Nayan was such a walkover. What was it he overlooked? ... :-)

(You can still do that of course. Only because you've admitted to CPXB that you weren't happy with the resistance doesn't mean you can't provide an IC reason for it after the fact.)

Lokesh is less geared towards physical strength than his previous characters, but is firmly rooted in his community and upbringing as a rancher.  He's put a fair bit of thought into voluntarily lowering several of his keyword abilities, to reflect how he sees the character.  

Fantastic stuff.  He sounds like he's really getting into the style you want, with this and with the stuff he introduces in play - party etiquette advice etc.

Barbon's player has been discussed extensively on the actual play thread, heh.  In summary, he's a new player, very timid and suggestible, who wants the other characters (and players) to see Barbon as "cool" but isn't sure how to make that happen.  

Would joining a secret association that knows things the jealous university professors wouldn't teach him fit his bill, perhaps?

I still need lots of practice at making bangs, since I don't think that any of the ones I tried this session were really sharp.  

You now have much better material to work with than you had before the session. Someone said somewhere recently that narr play can start out by being a bit formal and undramatic until things get rolling, it's more likely that than you doing anything wrong.
What you did achieve in any case were grabs on each PC, on Stephan with Asha (although CPXB fervently denies it) and on Barbon with the masked stranger.  

That said I'm not at all sure what to suggest in the way of further play material for CPXB. His posts on the other thread make me wonder what play style he really wants.

Although I still think that Stephan may be difficult or impossible to target with by-the-book "bangs," I think I can arrange things so that the choices and actions of his character (no matter how easy for him to decide) will still lead to the kind of play that he likes.

If you're meaning to guide Barbon's player into narr play, that could prove your greatest obstacle.  If only one other player (Lokesh's) at the table enjoys that sort of thing, how is Barbon's player going to learn that bangs and troubles and losing contests and absolutely messy situations can be fun?  Just saying.  (It kinda confirms me in my opinion that you need to provide Barbon's player with a lot of perceived coolness for his character, and not shatter his illusion about the nature of the secret association he wants to join. )