TSOY - BDTP situation

[Matt Wilson]

So here's something I could use some examples for, so that I can tell a player how a cliffhanger situation might be resolved next game session.

There's this goblin in love with a human, and an elf who's been hired to kill this human. The goblin and elf are PCs.

In the last game, the guy playing the elf was giving me this vibe that he wasn't going to kill the human, so I sent in some thugs as a sort of bang to get the goblin all riled up. But then the elf is on the scene, and the final situation looks like this:

Goblin is in the alley kicking ass over the thugs trying to kidnap human, who is bound and blindfolded.

Elf is at a distance with bow, and is shouting "stop, murderer," at goblin to make it look like goblin is up to something bad.

Then third character, who is mostly cooperating with goblin, sees elf and goblin and says, "I bull rush the elf to knock him down."

The elf player says, "I use her attempted bull rush as an opportunity to make it look like I accidentally shot at the human, but I really want to shoot at the human." (awesome, says I)

"To kill him?" I ask. He says yes. (even more awesome, and damn sinister)

So, I do it like this: successes on reaction roll against the bull rush are counted as bonus dice toward the attack. Meanwhile, goblin player wants to get all ninja and have his character deflect the arrow so that human doesn't get hit.

With bonus dice, Elf gets a kickass roll: a 19!* That's 5 success levels. Goblin doesn't stand a chance. That arrow flies like a mutha.

But this human is a "named" NPC, so he only takes 5 damage. Damn, that's kind of anti climactic.

So we're at stop time, and I hang it there all cliffhangery. And elf player asks, "so he's not dead?" No, I say, you have to do BDTP to kill a named character."

So what I'm wondering is what are some cool examples of how you do BDTP against someone bound and gagged and basically helpless. Should the human just be dead since he's all helpless and stuff? What sounds good? What does the CRN-dog think?

Also, if the human is killed, does the goblin lose the key? I guess it'd still be unrequited, huh?

*dude spent all 5 advances on A skills. Crazy shit.

[Thierry Michel]

dude spent all 5 advances on A skills. Crazy shit.

This doesn't answer your question, but I'm afraid that:

"When taking advances, none of the above options can be repeated. If you've increased three of your character's abilities rated at A, for example, you can then do anything but increase three more abilities rated at A. After you've taken another advance, you may then go back and increase three more A-rated abilities."

[Clinton R. Nixon]

So what I'm wondering is what are some cool examples of how you do BDTP against someone bound and gagged and basically helpless. Should the human just be dead since he's all helpless and stuff? What sounds good? What does the CRN-dog think?

Also, if the human is killed, does the goblin lose the key? I guess it'd still be unrequited, huh?

Man, your SOY-fu is weak today! The named character looks and feels dead, sure. The named character is out of the conflict - and if it's an NPC, feel free to decide he's dead, Matt. Or feel free to decide that he comes back at a later time, like any comic book character that appeared to die over and over. Even the goblin should think the character's dead.

As for the goblin losing the key: I'd give them the chance. Let them walk away and not try to exact vengeance. Otherwise, let them keep it: it still works with a dead love.

[DaGreatJL]

Here's what I recommend.

The shoot to kill was not a conflict between the elf and the woman; it was a conflict between the elf and the goblin. Therfore, run in as a BDTP between the two of them, with the 5 damage going against the goblin; perhaps the arrow strikes too close for comfort, making him nervous, or maybe the goblin gets hit himself. But yeah, the human is bound, and is an NPC, and the goblin is obviously invested in protecting her enough to try and catch the arrow.

[Matt Wilson]

Ah, so you're saying that BDTP is needed to permanently remove NPCs, but not to make it look like they're permanently removed.

Thanks man.

And thanks Thierry for catching that. It's tough when all of us are learning the game at the same time. It's changed a bit since last time I played it, which was a long-ass time ago.

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Ah, so you're saying that BDTP is needed to permanently remove NPCs, but not to make it look like they're permanently removed.

Basically, yes. Sometimes I'm not as clear as I'd like, so to clarify the book:

Characters and named NPCs cannot be killed without their owner's permission without Bringing Down the Pain. They can be taken out of the immediate conflict, and can be "killed," in that they appear to die. Like any good comic book character, though, they can return when least expected.

[Andy Kitkowski]

...they can return when least expected.

...perhaps later as a vengence spirit/ghost that possesses the goblin? :-)

[Matt Wilson]

Here's a general statement of TSOY goodness, and I'm not just saying this because Clinton is the sexiest man alive:

Keys absolutely rule. I like them better than TROS spiritual attributes. I've got the elf assassin who's going to get XP for beating the goblin, the goblin who's going to get XP for attempting vengeance against the elf, the other elf with key of self who's going to get XP for bailing on the goblin when the guards show up, and the third elf with key of justice (sort of like mission/vengeance) who's getting XP just for observing all this and putting the pieces together.

With all the keys I got from the characters, I knew to create a scenario about love, death, justice and independence. And man, the moment any one of those players buys off a key, it's going to absolutely rock the house. When the assassin lays down his bow and says "I've had enough killing?" Damn. When the goblin says it's time to put down the torch and let the dead bard rest in peace? Damn.

I seriously can't wait to play the next session.

Plus, I meant to address this, because it's so cool:

the shoot to kill was not a conflict between the elf and the woman

Woman? The male goblin isn't in love with a human woman. The human is a man.

[Ron Edwards]

Ewwww! Matt, you're playing a fag game? Oh my GOD.

Clinton, you're clearly corrupting the world at large with your foul, perverted, wrong, and terrible book.

But Matt's right - you are the sexiest man alive.

Best,
Ron

[J B Bell]

Bwaahahahaa!

Is there just something about how Clinton wrote up Goblins that makes us want to play them not just sexually preoccupied, but deeply perverted?  "Well, he's ugly all right, pretty nasty thinking about him slobbering over the pure unwilling bride.  Might as well make him actually in love with the guy villain and into heavy S&M too!  Whee!"

Clint, if you make some kind of "Goblin Pride" t-shirt, I'd wear it to the next Gay Pride parade here in Vancouver (where it's degenerated into a big "celebration" of how we can buy tons of stuff, just like straight people!).  Hell, I'd wear it to work as long as it doesn't have any private parts hanging out.

The really fucked up thing is how these genitally-focussed buggers manage to be poignant at the same time--that cover art really says it, somehow.  (In my imagination, goblins all have the big puppy-dog eyes, even if they're froggy or lizardy or roachy or whatever.  That's how you can tell a Violator, man--no potential for love in their little pinpoint eyes.

Yep.  I loves me the Goblin.

[Clinton R. Nixon]

The really fucked up thing is how these genitally-focussed buggers manage to be poignant at the same time--that cover art really says it, somehow.  (In my imagination, goblins all have the big puppy-dog eyes, even if they're froggy or lizardy or roachy or whatever.  That's how you can tell a Violator, man--no potential for love in their little pinpoint eyes.

Yep.  I loves me the Goblin.

If I ever actually write out something about Violators, that goes in there. In fact... it's on the Wiki now.

[Bankuei]

Hi,

Goblins are basically perpetually trapped in adolescence ("Dude! Boobies! Heheh") and the Affliction is getting an actual mature emotion beyond that...  Add in their inability/dysfunctional attempts at dealing with it (Wonder Years, American Pie...) and you have this wonderfully funny, pathetic character.

Depending on how you work it, it either becomes pathetic but endearing("Oh you big goof! aww") or it becomes pathetic and tragic, like Golem from LOTR or Requiem for a Dream.

Fun and scary.

Chris