Goal-based reward mechanic

[Lance D. Allen]

First off, Thanks for the replies!

Second off.. It's typically Forge policy not to resurrect threads that have fallen off the front page and/or are more than a month old. Generally you're supposed to start a new thread and refer to the previous one with hyperlinks. (though that does seem a bit odd to do in IGD..)

Third off.. Thanks again. Now that it's resurrected anyhow, I definitely appreciate the feedback.

As regards the problem of players wandering off away from the Plot (TM), why couldn't the GM also give the characters goals, individually or as a group, without an XP cost to them? That extends the game (by extending the End Count, as I understand it), deals with the problem of, well, Gandalf, and gives the GM increased control over play direction, which as he's the poor guy who has to write the mad plots the players come up with, is probably a good thing.

See, that actually goes counter to the idea I'm going for. There isn't "The Plot (TM)", nor is there intended to be. This mechanic is designed for less intensive GM control, more the style I go for. My GMing style is "I've got a few cool ideas, but what can I make happen from the characters and their backstories?" This alleviates the burden of coming up with cool things for the PCs to do; The GM just takes what the players have set for themselves, and twists it around a little bit.

That said, in the final iteration of the mechanics, I am going to include rules and suggestions that allow the GM to ask the players for XP to build goals for them. I don't see the players grudging the GM these points in any group I've ever been part of, and I can actually imagine groups where such a strong player-driven-story dynamic isn't the norm actually setting up a system where the players might even "tithe" a goodly portion of their XP to the GM to build goals with.

Bill,

Valid concerns, and some I've considered, as is noted in "Hole #1" in my last post. I've done a little already to sweeten the pot, but perhaps not enough.

So far, there is no longer any penalty whatsoever for failing a Falling Action. Failing a Falling Action returns the full amount of XP invested to you, but only deincrements the EndCount by the amount earned (if any) before the failure. This makes Falling Actions *slightly* more attractive by removing the possibility of it biting you in the ass.

That said, here's my take on your points.

1. Players like power. Investing in Falling Actions won't give them any

Well, indirectly, it will. As I mentioned, it gives them additional time. The actual advancement rules use both a training-time mechanic and a advancement point requirement.

2. Players like End Game. It's fast, it's exciting and it's something they usually work towards, not away from.

True in many cases. However, I've run into more than a few gamers that grow attached to a character, and never want to quit playing that character, or at the very least, want more time to play that character. Others may have certain issues their character has to be resolved, and a mad dash toward End Game might make that difficult and hasty. Again, Falling Actions are all about giving more time for these things.

3. Players expect that they will be powerful enough to deal with End Game when it arrives.

And so they should be. I don't believe I mentioned it, but on the flipside of the whole XP angle, the GM is able to advance his NPCs to match the overall power level of the PCs. Basically, for every point of XP the PCs use on character advancement, the GM gets an equal amount to use on improving his NPCs. So basically, if the PCs ramp up their power immensely, the GM will still be able to offer them a challenging EndGame.

I may toy with the idea of adjusting the amount of XP return to amount invested for Falling Actions, but I really like the idea of Falling Actions having primarily narrative or non-mechanical effects. In some groups, Falling Actions will be seldom used as the group drives quickly toward EndGame. In other groups, I see them being used more often. It's a continuum.. My only concern is that there might be an across the board low level of use of Falling Actions. Do you see this happening without improving the mechanical benefit, Bill?

[Bill Masek]

Wolfen,

As your system stands right now Wolfen, yes, unfortunatly.  I think Falling Actions are a really cool idea, I just don't see them getting any play.  After all, the PCs could just as easily invest those points into their powers/abilities and have more effective PCs.  I can't see that many players tying their XP up in goals which won't generate anything for them.

What if Falling Actions gave you just as much XP as a Rising Action, but you had to spend it (or half of it) on a specific subset of options.  Such options would be focused on story control rather then powers/abilities.  It could include cosmetic effects (my character has energy crackling out of her eyes!), relationships (or creation of new NPCs possibly with PC control), some kind of mechanic which temperarily makes your character more effective (such as burning a point ot reroll a dice) or new Falling Actions.

This would give players reasons to purchase Falling Actions without simply making them less effective Rising Actions.  Plus the Falling Actions will eventualy become self sustaining so there won't be an XP gap at the end of the game.

Best,
Bill

[Lance D. Allen]

Having other benefits to Falling Actions than simply XP is a definite idea. I'll kick it around and see what I come up with.

This would give players reasons to purchase Falling Actions without simply making them less effective Rising Actions. Plus the Falling Actions will eventualy become self sustaining so there won't be an XP gap at the end of the game.

What do you mean by XP gap?

[Bill Masek]

Wolfen,

By XP gap I mean a situation where a certian amount of XP is 'lost' by investing it.  Lets say that player A invests 30xp into a falling action (with the modifications you posted).  Odds are 66.6% that he will complete this action before end game.  Thus, by investing in the Falling Action he would effectively loose 10xp.

By making your Falling Actions generate limited XP (of which one of the actions is to purchasae  more Falling Actions) as well as returning the original XP spent to the player they will only risk their initial investment.  Since your chances of sucess are near 100% at completing your first Falling Action there is a very low chance you will loose any XP on it.  Then the extra XP generated can be used to purchase more falling actions and you have a self-sustaining cycle.

All this is assuming you can't just say "Yeah, I fail this Falling Action." without any reason and get the XP back at any time.  Based on your previous posts it seemed like something had to happen to make the PC fail the Goal she invested in.  I personaly agree with that take.   If you allow your players to simply abandon a Falling Action at anytime without reason they will be a lot less invested in them, and thus Falling Actions will be a lot less interesting.

Best,
Bill