[DitV]Life and death conflicts

[Eric Provost]

I think something that's been missing here is an essential part of the Dogs rules.  Everyone has to agree on the stakes of a conflict before you can drop the dice.  The GM dosen't have the authority to set stakes that the players don't care for.  So, if the GM calls for an ambush where the stakes are the life of a PC that the player dosen't want to risk so directly, then the player has every right to object and veto those stakes.

So, I'm willing to say that, without a doubt, there is NO way that a GM can kill off a Dog without the permission of the players.  All of them.

-Eric

[Brand_Robins]

and a case could be made that no player would ever want to do that, given that there's only one person who ever raised the dead and its unlikely he's returned as a Dog,

Just as a note, this is untrue in LDS (Mormon) theology. Resurection is possible, given the proper priesthood authority and the Will of God. So a murdered Dog, surrounded by other Dogs, sounds like one of those places where it just might be possible.

You could also turn it into a great conflict, if the Dog's player was willing, by having the contest be based on the Dogs life, afterlife, and willingness or unwillingness to come back, and/or his sins holding him back from recieving such a blessing, and so forth.

I mean really, if you're a Dog killed in righteous duty I'd assume you get a "go to heaven, go straight to heaven" card. Do you want to risk blowing that by coming back to life for as petty thing as revenge? Even when you can see what it is doing to your comrades, family, and friends?

And if the others convince/bless him into coming back, there still could be resistance from the demons. They may not want dead Dog returning, or may try to tempt him with dreams of hate and revenge as he crosses through the viel, and that could be another great contest. I mean really, if someone had up and shot you in the head, wouldn't you want bloody revenge? And what does that mean about you? Think High Plains Drifter, but with Dogs.

Damn, now I want this to happen in game.

[TonyLB]

Plus, it can give the Dog a relationship with Heaven.  Every conflict that happens after that resurrection has the potential to include things about Heaven directly in its Stakes, for extra dice.

"Do I save her soul, and give her a place in the Paradise I glimpsed?"
"Do I assert the Will of the King, or failing, do I lose my chance to return to Heaven?"

I'm with Brand... I want this now.

[Sydney Freedberg]

Form of -- a quibbling academic!

there's only one person who ever raised the dead and its unlikely he's returned as a Dog,

Just as a note, this is untrue in LDS (Mormon) theology....

It's actually untrue in Judeo-Christian theology, period:
The prophet Elijah resurrects a boy (I Kings 17:17-24)
as does his successor Elisha (II Kings 4:32-38)
as does the mere touch of Elisha's bones! (II Kings 13:20-21)
The apostle Peter raises a woman, Tabitha (Acts 9:36-42)
and Paul raises a young man, Eutychus, who falls out of a third story window (Acts 20:9-11)

(No, I don't have a theology degree. I have Google -- plus a real Bible to doublecheck the Internet.)

So there are plenty of precedents for Christian characters in RPGs raising each other. What's so special, in Christian eyes, about Jesus is that He is the only person ever who resurrects Himself.

Plus:

Vincent's being all modest or somethin', but everybody, go read this discussion of character death on Vincent's great blog.


Now let's all go out and kill our players! Yeah!

[cdr]

Ooh, excellent points from Brand and Sydney. I also like Tony's idea of a relationship with Heaven (as a place or an organization).

But mechanically, what sort of dice do I roll to oppose the Dogs calling their dead brother back from Heaven?  4d6+(demonic opposition) doesn't seem like enough.  Do I take the next NPC off the list and call it The Angel Guarding The Gates of Heaven? :-) (And yes, I know I can do whatever I and my players want, but I'm interested in hearing other's thoughts.)

And once you bring ONE person back from the dead, why not more?  Talk about pushing it further in the next town. :-)

--Carl Rigney

[TonyLB]

Ye olde standard answer:  If all of the Dogs are in agreement that something should be done then it's the Will of the King.

But, really... what are the odds that all of your Dogs are going to agree to something this controversial?  I suppose some groups might all agree to that as a matter of course.  But others would see it as a wonderful opportunity for rich, fun-producing conflict.

Absolute first Dog I'd nominate to be against the ressurection would be the dead one, of course.  As GM it's so easy... "So what does Ezekiel think of this whole 'Pull him back from heaven' plan, anyway?  You gonna help 'em, hinder 'em, what?"

[lumpley]

(If anybody's waiting for my stamp of approval on this matter of bringing Dogs or whomever back from the dead, consider it stamped. Yeah. Cool stuff.)

-Vincent

[Brand_Robins]

(If anybody's waiting for my stamp of approval on this

Stamps? We don't need no stinking stamps!  ;)

[Sydney Freedberg]

(If anybody's waiting for my stamp of approval on this

Stamps? We don't need no stinking stamps!  ;)

errata for DiTV -- add under "False Doctrine":

VINCENT TOLD ME TO KILL HIM.