Why WOULDN'T you publish a print version?

[Andrew Morris]

I know there are at least a few publishers out there who are either sell PDFs exclusively, or only offer certain products in PDF. My question is why? When there are resources like Lulu, you can just send your PDF over and, boom, you've got a print version customers can order. Using Lulu, you don't have to put up any money, or worry about fulfillment.

So, are there any good reasons not to offer a print version?

[Josh Roby]

Even with Lulu, your profit margin is smaller -- and I highly suspect that if you carried over all the Lulu fees to the print product's cost, people would buy the pdf in the mistaken impression their DeskJet could print it 'cheaper'.

Also, there are a number of pdf games out there that don't even top 48 pages -- a print version would just be this floppy thing that looked more like a trapper keeper folder than a book.

[Andrew Morris]

I don't see how the profit margin would be smaller, Joshua. If you charge $10 for the PDF, and Lulu charges $5, you set your print price at $20. You are making $12 per book, after the Lulu commission. And you still have a $10 PDF and $20 print version, which seem pretty standard to me. Certainly not so high that people who prefer print will go to the PDF because it seems so much cheaper.

Size is a valid reason, which I hadn't considered. Still, you could use some of the services to perfect bind even small documents.

Everything I've heard from indie publishers is that offering multiple formats only increases sales, though, so I can't understand why a publisher with a decently sized PDF wouldn't go ahead and offer a print version. It seems like it would only offer another source of revenue, as well as offer customers more choice.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Andrew,

There's a crucial variable you're missing - that people want to do things their way, sometimes.

I discontinued the Elfs PDF when it went to print. Why? I wanted to. I like the idea of Elfs being a book only. I own it, I publish it, and it's my decision - and you know, I really don't care "why."

That's a pretty powerful variable in the world of self-publishing.

Now, if I also wanted to max out the number of copies that were out there, and make as much dough as I could from them, then I would be pretty dumb to limit Elfs to the print version only. By "dumb," I mean that I'd be trying to satisfy two First Principles simultaneously.

But since my economic guiding principle is "make more money than you spend on it," without any particular threshold figure above that, then "I just wanna do it in print, that's all" doesn't contradict the economic goal, and can take its place in this case as the First Principle.

Best,
Ron

[Andrew Morris]

Ron, if "variable" in the context you use it means the same thing as "motivation," then, yes, I agree -- I'm missing many of the variables that would inspire a publisher to offer only a PDF of their game. That's what I'm trying to find out with this thread. I can understand why a product might only be offered in print -- piracy concerns (however mistaken), convenience (converting to PDF is an extra step that might require additional software), and so on.

And you'll hear no argument from me that wanting to offer a product only in one format is a perfectly valid reason for a publisher to do so. I'm concerned with the "why" of it, though. I might decide that I only want to offer a product in Russian. That's fine, but it doesn't say anything about the reasoning behind such a decision.

So, do you think you could identify any of the specific motivations behind offering a product in PDF only (such as Trollbabe)? If so, would you mind discussing them here?

I'd also like to hear from other publishers who offer products as PDF only. If you're in that group, why did you make that decision?

[John Harper]

I was originally going to offer Stranger Things as PDF only, because I'm not interested in becoming a game "publisher" again. But, the easy-factor of Lulu has made me reconsider. Offering a print book through Lulu is totally painless for me, and it satisfies people who really want a bound book (me included). I don't see a downside, in my case.

[GreatWolf]

A little background, first.

I just released my RPG (Legends of Alyria) as a blog.  It's not a PDF, but it is electronic, so I figure that I can contribute a bit to this discussion.

I did this for a couple of reasons.

The first is similar to John's. I'm not really wanting to become a game publisher and go through the hassle of producing a bound work, even through Lulu.  So this is one way to get the game out so that people can play it.

The second, though, is that I wanted to take advantage of the format to allow for some interchange that is not possible with a print work.  Specifically, I wanted to make the text of the game to be a jumping-off point for the game's players to add their own material, either through annotations on the text itself or links to other websites.  To this end, I separated out each section of the book, allowing for comments on each.  I had considered using a wiki for this, but I've never managed to edit a wiki page successfully, and I didn't want to have to worry about someone trashing the text that actually belonged to me.  This way I have control over my text and can edit it as needed, while others can offer their thoughts and feedback in the comments section.

Will this work?  Beats me.  However, as you can see, my goals would not be met by using print publication.

[Andrew Morris]

John, I'm of the same opinion -- Lulu seems like a totally painless way to go. This means that publishers who offer a PDF but not a print version must have some specific reason for it. That's what I'd like to learn about.

Seth, I've read your game, and I can see why you offer it only in an electronic format. Not offering a print version makes sense, based on your goals. However, I'm specifically asking about PDF games, not just any electronic format, simply because once you've gone through the steps to make a PDF, it's no more complicated than making a Lulu account and sending them the file. You already have it in the format needed. For you to offer a print version, you'd need to convert your game to a PDF or other acceptable format, then submit it. And then you'd have to change it every time you modified your work.

[Jake Richmond]

I also want a bound copy of Stranger Things. ZUsing the PDF gives me a headache, and my printer isnt working.

I'm not a huge fan of PDFs personally, but I love having the opyion to publish that way. Same with Lulu. Both are, to jump on the band wagon, painless.

[M Jason Parent]

(I'm posting here regarding my self-released projects, not general ENP products)

For my products, a lot of it has to do with where I'm at, headspace-wise, with the project proper. I -have- done a short print run of my 24 hour RPG to drag around to cons with me*, but it isn't publically available in that format yet.

This is because of

[*]the high price of small products - $5 for a 24-page booklet from lulu
[*]a feeling of incompleteness - it was a 24 hour RPG, mind you, so it isn't surprising that I don't find it complete and fulfilling yet. [/list]

Effectively, what I have out now is a 'beta-test' version of the game, I guess, and I'm going to hold out on releasing it in print until it has progressed a little further. Also, products that we give away in PDF don't sell too well in print. Our award-winning free PDF has sold 2 whole copies in print. So, I'll wait until I can get the product somewhere where I'll be happy to sel the PDF also before I make a print edition of it for general consumption.

---

* Much to my chagrin, I didn't actually unload very many copies of this at GenCon this year. I meant to give one to Luke Crane, and throw a bunch around to other designers, but in the end gave a few to some old friends from many ages ago, and one to Greg Stolze just prior to our game of "In Space".

[PlotDevice]

For me, the time and effort to format the print version is as much if not more than formatting the online version. The reward is smaller, because online I get 1 print customer for 50 pdf customers. It is simply cost effectiveness for someone of my size. :)

[Andrew Morris]

Evan, I'm not understanding you. Your PDF is formatted for an 8.5x11 inch sheet of paper, right? There wouldn't be any "formatting" for a print version in that case.

[PlotDevice]

Hi Andrew!

Most of the PDFs I do are landscape A4. There are a few reasons for this:

(1) I am in Australia. A4 is the standard for me and my friends. I didn't realise there was a different standard in the US till I was 6 months into publishing stuff, and I had a format I liked already. I have changed recently, but this was originally an impediment.
(2) Landscape looks better on screen, where most of my customers read my stuff anyhow.
(3) Art costs are less in my current format structure (1 peice per 5 pages landscape, 5 pages lanscape for 800 words per page = 4000 words... 1 piece per 4 pages portrait, portrait printable pages about 700 words per page, = 1 art work per 2800 words)

In any case, formatting for a PDF release is one thing and formatting for a print release is another.

(a) PDFs can be left low res, print releases need to come 300-900 dpi. Often for file size reasons, I will lower the resolution on art when I am formatting for a PDF only release.
(b) Print release needs to have format changes to accomodate binding (extra space left to one side of the page alternating from page to page)
(c) You do not need a cover for short release PDFs, you can use some of the internal art and formatting, but you definately need a cover for a print release. Covers cost an arm, a leg, and a kidney on top of what internal art costs.

Plus there is the whole argument of short PDFs are more economically viable than long ones anyhow (especially in d20). And there is no point in doing a print release for an item of less than 30 pages IMHO. But that is another discussion, I think.

Does that clear up where I am coming from?
Warm regards
Evan

[Nathan P.]

Along those same lines...

Just because you can create a 8.5x11 print book doesn't mean that you necessarily want to. For Timestream, I want the print edition to be 6" x 9", which means I need to reformat the entire document to that size, which is taking a good amount of time. It doesn't have enough page count (58 pp) to really fill out a full-size book, basically, and I just don't think it would look very good. I can certainly see how someone that doesn't have the time or desire to reformat a document to a more appropriate size would be satisfied with PDF only.

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

I have after some pain decided that the basic question of this thread isn't going to be useful.

To be useful, it would have to be addressed to a specific and well-defined subset of publishing, i.e., actual companies by name, in which case specialty forum, PM, or email is a better method.

Or it would have to be modified from its current "would you" construction. "Woulds" aren't very helpful inroads into the kinds of discussions that this forum is about.

So let's call it. Thread's over. However, if questions remain which can be constructed in the ways I'm talking about, then new threads are welcome.

Best,
Ron