Rise Again

[Laurel]

I must admit part of my reasons for keeping the Second Civil War thing is entirely aestetic: I really, really like the image of anthroporphic animals in modern fatigues with archaic, civil-war trappings (like a Calvary cap or a saber), fighting with futuristic weapons.

With the right artists, you could pull this off images of this probably really nicely.  I think, however, that as it stands you are chasing after too much, and trying to create explanations for how all of this could happen that are just going to get nitpicked to death.  

So my next question is: who's your intended audience?  What kind of games do they already like, and what is it about your proposal that would catch their interest?  ((Just another way to approach the whole matter, brainstorming))

[erithromycin]

I'd just like to say that I too thought the future history thing muddied the waters a little. I must say, however, that to be honest the only part of your theme list I can see that wouldn't fit into any of the conflicts I mentioned [and I do intend to try it with Vietnam] is the Animal Rights/What is Humanity thing, and I've a suggestion:

Cheat. You've seen Jacob's Ladder? [If not, do...]

What if the 'animal' status was confered by a combat drug, or equivalent?

Oh, and your download thing didn't seem to be working. Might be me.

drew

[Valamir]

I must admit part of my reasons for keeping the Second Civil War thing is entirely aestetic: I really, really like the image of anthroporphic animals in modern fatigues with archaic, civil-war trappings (like a Calvary cap or a saber), fighting with futuristic weapons.

Oh the imagery is great.  One of my favorite episodes of ST:TNG was where Q had the crew fighting bestial versions of Napoleonic soldiers armed with some kind of pulse energy musket.

I think its a fabulous setting, I'm just having trouble visualizing it as being deeper than B Movie grade sci-fi.  For instance your opening fiction was extremely cool.  But once I realized that this was a future setting every Sim fiber in me was screaming..."We won't be fighting future wars with archaeic lines of battle" and other similiar things.

It would fun in the same way that Sky Galleons of Mars is fun, I just can't see that type of setting as a vehicle for real soul searching issues.

If you manage to pull it off, I'll be the first to tip my hat.

[xiombarg]

Mmmm, it looks like I won't be posting the revision tonight, I just a big heapin' helpin' of Real Life, though the situation involves ethics, so it may inform my game design. Keep the comments coming, I like the way y'all are thinking so far, even if I don't agree with everything. ;-) With luck, I should have more tommorrow (Tuesday)...

[Bill_White]

There are a lot of themes sprawling through the Rise Again setting that Xiombarg has described, and I think that in their profusion they may obscure each other. Here are the themes that I read Xiombarg as most interested in continuing to explore:

Theme 1:  The ambiguous position and ironical character of modern Southern culture, with the Civil War as a touchstone and emblem of this ambiguity and irony.  More broadly, the place of "local" or "traditional" national identities and the received histories associated with them in a larger and more complicated world.

Theme 2:  The ethical quandaries inherent in war, especially when cultural norms (e.g., of "honor" or "gentility") or prejudices clash with instrumental norms -- the old means vs. ends debate, in other words, with life-and-death stakes.

Theme 3:  Issues of ontology (what it means to "be", or to be human) and deontology (issues of what one ought to do) in a "posthuman" era -- i.e., when status as "human" or "not human" is not easily assigned nor necessarily stable.

Hmm.   As an aside, let me just mention that I am not a big fan of sf that's just historical fiction with the serial number filed off.  There's a David Drake novel where the spaceships operate like 18th century sailing ships, right down to boarding actions with cutlasses.  Spare me.  

So a science-fictional setting, to be faithful to the genre, should try to imagine how to get from here to the particular future that's being envisioned, rather than simply transplanting the past into the future.  Let's try that as an exercise.

One thing I am struck by is the extent to which the idea a unique Southern cultural identity preserved even in the face of the assimilative force of the larger national identity mirrors more modern concerns with the tension between globalization (economic and cultural) and revived forms of nationalism throughout the world.

So, you might ask, what would it take for a revived Southern nationalism to take a coherent and active political form in the middle years of the 21st century?  Your answer to this will depend on your personal political or ideological hobgoblins.  Let's make it easy on ourselves and blame globalization.  So:

The economic and cultural forces of globalization, spearheaded by powerful corporate conglomerates and protected by the increasingly activist hegemony of the United States, the sole remaining superpower, brought to fruition in the early part of the 21st century the "new world order" alluded to by George H.W. Bush in the waning years of the 20th.

However, the flaws of globalized capitalism -- the concentration of wealth in increasingly fewer hands, the marginalization of local culture in favor a single homogenous "pop culture" matrix, and the structural inequities favoring developed over developing nations -- led to resistance, even violence, in some parts of the world.  By the middle of the 21st century, the United States -- even with the limited assistance of the European Union and Japanese militaries -- was hard-pressed to maintain its security commitments throughout the world as well as domestically, especially in the face of sophisticated Chinese hacking, spoofing, and phreaking capabilities and continuing expenses related to efforts to deploy a space-based missile defense system.  "Imperial overstretch" was proving a very real and problematic drain on the resources of the United States.

The Datapanic of 2059 and subsequent bailout of the United States government by AOLsoft set the stage for the Second War of Rebellion.  AOLsoft lawyers, announcing their intention to place the 51 state governments in receivership as well, were met with a countersuit by an alliance of former states, including most of the old 19th century Confederacy.

As the legal battle played itself out, rebellious governors mobilized their National Guard units and sought the aid of the "upstart-ups," software and finance corporations based around Atlanta.

[Bill_White]

Part of what I wanted to say got cut off of my last post.  Here's a conclusion to wrap up my comments:

***

The point of the exercise was just to think about how to make the setting you want emerge from a science fictional treatment.   This sort of setting might produce a gritty, cyberpunkish urban warfare setting with noble New Southern rebels fighting the faceless security forces of the U.S., Inc.

Theme 2 emerges from the conflict that results from a resurgent Southern nationalism confronting a corporatized global culture.  It's war, baby!  Last time, it was North vs. South.  Now, it's South vs. the World!

Theme 3 requires an underclass that's disenfranchised and downtrodden.  Cyborgs, uplifted animals, clones, whatever.  Were it me, I'd use genius-level A-Life AIs invented in the South and regarded as the intellectual property of the Southern upstart-ups challenging AOLsoft for control of the South.  "Freeing the AIs" becomes an economic issue as well as a social and cultural one.

Hopefully some of this has been interesting, if not of use.

Bill

[Ring Kichard]

Just a quick thought, because it's burning a hole in my pocket, and I like these pants:

The State motto of New Hampshire is excerpted from a longer quote, "Live Free Or Die; Death Is Not The Worst Of Evils."

Separated from The People's Republic of Vermont by the thinnest of boundaries, New Hampshire is the only New England state to consistently vote Republican (one of the strangely named "Red States") and presumably has a higher support of states rights and other things Southern.

I'm thinking of a possible defection of New Hampshire from the Northern Forces to the Neo-Confederates. Maybe they fortify their borders. Maybe they organize a pocket of resistance deep within Northern territory. Maybe they organize a gigantic migration south with every man, woman, and child armed to the teeth. Maybe they conduct an enormous airlift into Southern territory.

New Hampshire's State Seal contains the Frigate Raleigh further hinting at it's possibly contrary nature.

I'm pitching this idea as a way to separate the history of the second war from the first, and to add a possible character background a bit different from "born down south": "I came from (or even, my owners shipped me from) New Hampshire."

[Valamir]

Yeah, Bill.  That's exactly what I was talking about.  I used the "race-war" hobgoblin popular in the mid-eighties.  Globalization is clearly a more current boogey man.  Either way, point is there are plenty of current events that could be manipulated to create an environment where Xi's themes can be explored.

Your write up was also especially good.  Just enough detail to be plausible from a RPG setting standpoint but vague enough to not be nit picked to death.  Also pretty easy to research.  With all the anti-globalization demonstrations going around, I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to find some web sites where they detail their issues.  

Take the worst of their exaggerated scare monger tactics, assume they're actually real and their worst nightmares do come to pass, and voila instant background.

[xiombarg]

So my next question is: who's your intended audience?  What kind of games do they already like, and what is it about your proposal that would catch their interest?  ((Just another way to approach the whole matter, brainstorming))

Well, my intended audience is my friends. Considering several of them are Southerners, they're pretty enthusiastic about the concept so far. ;-)

Outside of that glib answer: My audience is people who are interested in the Civil War but aren't neccessarily interested in re-creating it, who are as interested as I am in exploring IC ethical issues.

[xiombarg]

I think its a fabulous setting, I'm just having trouble visualizing it as being deeper than B Movie grade sci-fi.  For instance your opening fiction was extremely cool.  But once I realized that this was a future setting every Sim fiber in me was screaming..."We won't be fighting future wars with archaeic lines of battle" and other similiar things.

I think I've fixed this with the second draft. Pop over to the other thread, where I've posted it, and let me know what you think.

And even given that, I don't mind the goofiness of B Grade Sci Fi. YMMV, but I prefer to have a little goofiness with my serious soul-searching. I can't take unremitting gloom in a setting without adding something light in: This is why I can't play Wraith, as the urge to crack a joke becomes to strong against the gloom of the setting. I'm fond of emotional contrast.

And if you don't think serious soul-searching can happen against an odd backdrop, you need to watch more Anime. ;-)

[xiombarg]

Theme 3 requires an underclass that's disenfranchised and downtrodden.  Cyborgs, uplifted animals, clones, whatever.  Were it me, I'd use genius-level A-Life AIs invented in the South and regarded as the intellectual property of the Southern upstart-ups challenging AOLsoft for control of the South.  "Freeing the AIs" becomes an economic issue as well as a social and cultural one.

Hopefully some of this has been interesting, if not of use.

Actually, it's quite interesting, and I might steal some of it for another draft. As for the AI thing, I already had an idea of a version of the background where AIs become an issue. The main reason I didn't go that way is that I wanted the oppressed class to close to humans in terms of fragility (a proper AI revolt, in my opinion, would include Ogre-style cybertanks), and because speaking as a computer scientist, I think we're a lot closer to uplifted animals than AIs at the moment, technologically speaking.

[xiombarg]

I'm pitching this idea as a way to separate the history of the second war from the first, and to add a possible character background a bit different from "born down south": "I came from (or even, my owners shipped me from) New Hampshire."

I like it. I really, really, like it. This is highly likely to show up in a third draft. With props to you, of course.

[xiombarg]

I apologize for the multiple posts. I'm feeling frenetic today.

Let's see if I can get BBCode to do with right: I have posted a second draft of the background, complete with system, in a different thread. Please let me know what you think, particularly with regard to the system, tho commentary on the background tweaks are welcome, too.