[Munch-Mausen Tales] Ronnies feedback

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

Joe J. Prince's Munch-Mausen Tales makes a nice trilogy with The Rat-God's Girlfriend and Me & the Rat. It'd be a neat thing if all of them became products which mutually advertised one another, and I think all the authors should play one another's games and comment on them in Actual Play. I'm posting them as a "set" which all start with this paragraph.

Here's the feedback which applies to all three games equally:

This game presents a hilarious basic situation, well told and full of possibilities for what to do and what might happen. It is less suited to development as a role-playing than to development as a card or other sort of token/item/board game, much on the Cheapass model. Whether it's cards, dice, put-together squares, or what, doesn't matter.

The actual system needs to take one thing into consideration: right now, this is a "conch" game. I use this term in reference to the conch in Lord of the Flies, which was used as authority to speak. Effectively, as it stands, this game represents an elaborate means of permitting one person to speak while everyone else listens.

I think conch games don't work. I think strategy games with light narration do work - Give Me the Brain, for very simple version; Before I Kill You Mr. Bond, perhaps Clue in some cases, and so on. I think whatever-we-call-them, "role-playing" games work as well.

But a conch game isn't either one. It's ultimately an unsatisfying activity that leads to limping-along, exhausted attempts to "make a story to win" crossed with "win in order to make the story." The closest any game I've seen come to success is the card game Once Upon a Time, and it suffers badly from a weak endgame for this very reason.

These aren't the only conch games in the Ronnies entries - All Growed Up, The Great Rat Raid, and others are similar. These three I've lumped together because they share so much in common regarding "rat" and "girlfriend," and I am certain that the three authors can benefit and hone the respective designs by focusing away from the "story" and more towards the fun competition.

In other words, use the great introductory text to draw people in, just the way Give Me the Brain does. "Zombies, working in an all-night fast-food place, and they just wanna finish their damn shift and go home!" Laughing yet? You should be, it's funny. But after that, it's a card game that works as a card game, with funny pictures to reference the introductory joke.

As I see it, that's where these three could go with the right kind of work.[/i]

Now for some comments about this one specifically, from my notes.

1. Wait a minute - if you bore everyone, you get coins? That doesn't seem to make sense.

2. "Conclude the tale successfully" seems both vague and unlikely, as a means of determining a mechanical outcome.

3. I like the coins and cards - very casual, very easy, a major improvement on Baron Munchausen in my view. This is the strongest feature of the game.

4. The rules are too involved for rapid-fire narration. Can the pacing be speeded up, from person to person and moment to moment? For instance, I like the in-the-tale risks and benefits - can the same kind of thinking be applied across turns, as well as within it?

At the moment, there seems to be way too much talking, posturing, and a tactics until you get to the good stuff. The overview of play, how it moves around from person to person, needs to be streamlined.

5. The scrum at the end ought to be more likely, not less. I suggest that an announcement just does it.

6. Are total coins not involved in determining victory?

7. Does less cards mean higher percent to win? Actually, my notes are a bit puzzling on this point. Perhaps a paraphrase of the rules might help?

Best,
Ron

[Joe J Prince]

Thanks for the feedback Ron, sorry I've not replied sooner, but you're probably pretty busy with all the Ronnies anyhow.

I'll try and address the specific points you made first:

1. You get coins for boring the other players as they effectively pay you to shut up! It's a disadvantage to the tale teller to be awarded coins in this manner as it ends their tale, meaning they can't improve their qualities.

2. Fair point, it is a little vague. The successful conclusion is supposed to be the rat narrating himself achieving whatever he originally declared the tale to be about.

3. Thanks, that's what I was going for. The duelling mechanic in Baron Munchhausen is too harsh I feel.

4. Hmm yes more streamlined play would be preferable. That said I feel MMT runs faster than any other rpg I can think of (perhaps barring Baron Munchhausen). Essentially anyone can interject at any time - any stake will give you a slice of conch! I'm not sure what you mean by trying to expand the in-the tale risks across turns??

5. Actually an announcement does just do it "Punch Up!" pg 12

6. Well, not directly although the idea is that the more coins you have at the end the more cards you can buy to improve your odds of victory.

7. No, generally more cards are better. However in the final brawl the best hand you can have is a trump suited flush draw and there's more chance of holding that if you have fewer cards - but statistically you're still better off with more cards.

I love card games and cheapass games and I understand the comparison. I'm certainly gonna try and hook up with the other two game designers you mentioned.
I know where you're coming from when you say this isn't a rpg, most traditional rpg fans would probably agree.

However, I personally disagree. This is a game in which you role-play a character telling a story. I think in MMT you spend far more time in-character than most other rpgs. All the tales are delivered in-character meaning you have to role-play (as opposed to roll-play). It's primarily drama-driven with one player having authority or "conch" at a time, but this authority can be challenged, in-character, by any other player at any time. How the relationships between the competing Munch-Mausen are role-played will have a vast effect on the tactical game! Talking, posturing and tactics is kinda what the game's all about.
The whole game is still pretty rough around the edges I'm hoping to playtest some more and clarify some (most) of the rules.

Thanks again for taking the time to look at my game, stay tuned for my next ronnies attempt...

All the best
Joe