[8-Bit Dungeon] First addition: Lamp, Coffers, Map

[Levi Kornelsen]

This is the game I'm working on.  Based on some thinking of my own, and the advice I recieved in [url=http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=17832.0]this thread, I've started in with a change, and the first possible addition (of several).  The change is that money goes to the player with the Coffers, not directly to the players after a fight, and gets distributed from there.  So, the addition:

THE THREE ITEMS
Immediately after receiving an adventure, a group must assign three special items: The Lamp, The Coffers, and The Map.  Each character can carry only one of these items at a time, and all three items must be handed out.

Who gets what?
To determine who gets which item, place a token representing each in the middle of the table.  The players may then discuss the division of these items, speaking as their characters, for as long as they wish, until any player decides to count to three, out loud.  On the count of three, each player points to the token representing the item they want.  If more than one player is pointing at the same thing, they all make fighting rolls; the highest score wins (in case of a tie, everyone rolling for that item rolls again).  If any items were not claimed at the end of this first round of discussion, the players who do not have items may continue to debate the remaining items until someone counts to three...  Right.  You get it.

The Lamp
Whoever has the Lamp may, after monsters are assigned to attack characters, reassign one monster to fight a different character.  Since the Lamp isn't represented by an actual item like the Map and Coffers are, it's recommended that a group use a token of some kind to represent the Lamp – whomever has the token has the lamp.

The Coffers
Whoever has the Coffers figures out how much Gil is gained at the end of each fight, and keeps a running total of that money over the course of the adventure as money being carried in the communal party reserves.  Any time that the characters are not in a fight, the character with the coffers may dispense money from these reserves to the characters, including their self, dividing it in any way that they wish.

The Map
Whoever has the Map actually manages the physical map for the adventure, and is the ultimate authority on any decision of where the party goes when they are in a Dungeon.  In effect, the character carrying the map always leads the party in the Dungeon.

Knockout!
If a character holding one of these items is knocked out, and the fight they were knocked out in ends, their item is up for grabs for any member of the party that wants it, and the character that is knocked out must await any exchanging of items before waking up.  In order to claim this item, a character must either have no item, or declare that they are putting down the item they are carrying to pick up the other.  If there is any disagreement over who picks up which item, players are expected to debate it, speaking in character, until someone counts to three...

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Any thoughts?

[Sean]

I like this. But it seems as though the Lamp maybe should do more, like the guy who has it can turn it off to spite the party, and then you have to move in the dark.

So the map tells you where to go, the lamp lets you get there, and the coffers contain the gold.

The main function this mechanic generates though as I see it is to set up a 'Mexican Stand-off' at the end of the adventure. As you get close to conclusion, the lamp character has to try to browbeat the coffer character out of treasure before the coffer character is close enough to just make a break for it and sneak out through the darkness. Ditto the map character, except there the issue is finding your way rather than seeing your way.

Or anyway I assume this kind of competition is what you had in mind. And then maybe characters who don't have these during the adventure get first crack at magical treasures or other cool stuff, something like that? So if you find the Broadsword of Belgord you can tempt the Coffer character into trading for it? If you have a trading mechanic like that then the tension (will the guy with the coffers rob us blind or what?) goes on throughout the adventure. And it should always be the case that (a) you can't directly attack another party member for any item except during the free-for-all and (b) the thief character has a great chance of just making off with the loot if he ever gets the Coffers.

Anyway, just thoughts, hope they're useful to your project.

[TonyLB]

Would it be more fun if people didn't have pockets?  So they can't buy things.  Only the person holding the coffer can buy things.

If you're Black Mage and Fighter comes asking you for money to buy a new sword you have to choose between (a) accompanying him to a sword shop (annoying!) or (b) giving him the Coffer and knowing that he'll spent every last Gil on a sword, leaving nothing to buy food or spells.

[Levi Kornelsen]

I like this. But it seems as though the Lamp maybe should do more, like the guy who has it can turn it off to spite the party, and then you have to move in the dark.

Strangely, I've wondered if the Lamp was overpowered.  Hm.  Playtest will tell me.

The main function this mechanic generates though as I see it is to set up a 'Mexican Stand-off' at the end of the adventure. As you get close to conclusion, the lamp character has to try to browbeat the coffer character out of treasure before the coffer character is close enough to just make a break for it and sneak out through the darkness. Ditto the map character, except there the issue is finding your way rather than seeing your way.

Or anyway I assume this kind of competition is what you had in mind. And then maybe characters who don't have these during the adventure get first crack at magical treasures or other cool stuff, something like that? So if you find the Broadsword of Belgord you can tempt the Coffer character into trading for it? If you have a trading mechanic like that then the tension (will the guy with the coffers rob us blind or what?) goes on throughout the adventure. And it should always be the case that (a) you can't directly attack another party member for any item except during the free-for-all and (b) the thief character has a great chance of just making off with the loot if he ever gets the Coffers.

Anyway, just thoughts, hope they're useful to your project.

Competition of that sort, though more spread out over the course of the adventure, is what I have in mind.  If you mote that the party cannot seperate, and the rules simply don't allow for players wandering away, then you run headlong into situations where the Coffer keeper cheats a bit, the Lamp holder threatens not to warn him about monsters coming his way (that is, threatens sending that extra monster after him), and the map keeper tells them both to shut up, if they keep this up he'll get the whole party put down and their argument will be settled the hard way (total party knockout).

Something like that.  And I think I'm close.

But the trading mechanics, and the idea of bringing "the artifact for this adventure" into that for whoever is short, strikes me as a great one. Orginally, I was trying to figure out how to use either a ten-foot pole or 'fifty feet of rope' as one of the items, but I couldn't get it to fly.  Still, I'm sure there's something more I can do here.

Would it be more fun if people didn't have pockets?  So they can't buy things.  Only the person holding the coffer can buy things.

If you're Black Mage and Fighter comes asking you for money to buy a new sword you have to choose between (a) accompanying him to a sword shop (annoying!) or (b) giving him the Coffer and knowing that he'll spent every last Gil on a sword, leaving nothing to buy food or spells.

It does sound good.  The difficulty being that if that's the case, I'd only want the Coffer on the way back into town, rather than constantly wanting it (remember, you can split gold at any time a fight is off, so as it's written now, I can be embezzling all the time).   I think I expect "Knockouts as item transfer" actually occuring once or twice per adventure.  Still, though, I do like the idea of increasing interactions, especially in regards to money, and the image you've given me does sit well.

...I'll think on that, and after some testing, I'll try to work on drawing it in.

[sayter]

maybe add a fourth item, so that all 4 players of the traditional console RPG are represented. Perhaps make it Theives' Gloves. The holder of the thieves gloves gets to make a d6 roll, and on a certain value they automatically get the treasure. Thief might get a bonus to these rolls.

In fact, you could make each class type more proficient with the four items. Perhaps Fighter is better with the Map, Mages are better with the Lamp, Thieves with the gloves and the Coffers perhaps to a different class as well. They dont HAVE to choose that item, but they might have a better degree of use with that particular artifact?

[dindenver]

Hi!
  Just a thought, call the Lamp, the backpack (where the food is kept) and instead of fighting to keep it, the players fight to give it away. Extra monsters attack whoever has the food...

[Arpie]

I like the count-to-three rule. It sounds like it will save a lot of arguments and dindenver's idea is kind of funny.

I'll have to check out the rest of the thread!

[Dan Svensson]

"then you run headlong into situations where the Coffer keeper cheats a bit, the Lamp holder threatens not to warn him about monsters coming his way (that is, threatens sending that extra monster after him), and the map keeper tells them both to shut up, if they keep this up he'll get the whole party put down and their argument will be settled the hard way (total party knockout)."

why would the mapkeeper want to knock himself out? What does he gain?

[Levi Kornelsen]

maybe add a fourth item, so that all 4 players of the traditional console RPG are represented.

While I'd prefer not to link items to class, the idea of a fourth item is becoming more fixed as a good one in my mind.  The idea of it being something 'theft-related' appeals, to some degree.

Just a thought, call the Lamp, the backpack (where the food is kept) and instead of fighting to keep it, the players fight to give it away. Extra monsters attack whoever has the food...

Awesome.  It could actually be described this way, but stilll allow the holder to lure a monster away (tossing the backpack or some food to lure a monster elsewhere) - I'll need to think it over - but that's a great image.  And the idea of having an item that players fight to get rid of appeals as well.

why would the mapkeeper want to knock himself out? What does he gain?

All the equipment needs to be reshuffled in this case; and, if the map keeper really manages to nail the group to the back of a dungeon, he can get them all killed - which is a "reset"; the whole party wakes up at the Inn they last stayed at, but loses everything gained on the adventure.

In effect, the map keeper has a 'tool of last resort' that they can threaten the other characters with if they feel far too put upon, in addition to the authority to tell the party where to go.