[Legends of Lanasia]

[dindenver]

Hi!
  My game is called Legends of Lanasia. It is a 2d6 system that is easy to learn and play.
1.) What is your game about?
Sword and Sorcery adventure and challenging stereotypes.

2.) What do the characters do?
Explore the world of Lanasia, find creative solutions to Lanasia's challenges and explore the uniqueness of each player's character.

3.) What do the players (including the GM if there is one) do?
Description
- The Judge (GM) describes the scene as the characters perceive it, at a minimum this information should:
- Be consistent with previous events and/or the character's backgrounds
- Include a location
- Anything the characters can see
- Anything the characters can hear
- Anything the characters can smell and potentially taste
- Anything the characters can feel
- Anything that the characters would know about what the NPCs are doing
- Any clues that the characters vitally need to know for the story to continue
- Allow players to roll for Awareness and other skills to notice clues or minor details
- The players should describe what their characters are trying to do, including:
- What you character's intent is. There may be a skill roll involved or another character may resist your efforts.
- What your character is doing to accomplish this intent
- What objects your character is using to accomplish this intent
- What your character is saying to accomplish this intent
- If relevant, include what your character is feeling/thinking about this intent

Task Resolution
- The Judge and player determine if this task has a chance to fail. Character conversations, trivial efforts and anything that the player and Judge consider a normal or logical outcome
- If there is a chance of failure, the Judge and player determine what Skill or Talent is appropriate
- The Judge determines the Difficulty Number and modifiers
- The Player rolls the dice and modifies for Skill Mod for the appropriate Ability, Skill level and any other modifiers
- The Judge and player determine how successful the attempt was and create a new description

4.) How do the various parts your system reinforce what your game is about?
The Talent system reinforces the uniqueness of each character, while the list of available skills reinforces a sense of adventure

5.) How does your setting (or lack thereof) reinforce what your game is about?
Lanasia is a wide world with with characters that reinforce some stereotypes and challenge others.

6.) How does the Chargen of your game reinforce what your game is about?
Character generation involves the background of a character and guides them through picking skills. Characters are fully-formed beings and potentially heroic. While the selection of a Talent empowers the player to create a truly unique character.

7.) What types of behaviors/styles of play does your game reward (and punish if necessary)?
The game encourages heroic play, group cooperation and exploration.

8.) How are behaviors and styles of play rewarded or punished in your game?
It's pushed as advice to players and Judge (GM). It was not part of my design philosophy to enforce a specific style of play over others.

9.) How are the responsibilities of narration and credibility divided in your game?
The primary storyteller is the GM, with the players portraying their characters within the scope of the rules. There is a Destiny system that allows each player to directly influence the Narration.

10.) What does your game do to command the players' attention, engagement, and participation? (i.e. What does the game do to make them care?)
XPs are awarded by use of skills and creativity instead of kills or money amassed.

11.) What are the resolution mechanics of your game like?
All skills (combat and/or non-combat) are resolved by rolling two dice, adding the skill mod for one ability and youtr skill level and comparing to a Target Number. It is a classic Task Resolution system. For non-combat skills, the number of rolls is reduced to maximize the value of Luck.

12.) How do the resolution mechanics reinforce what your game is about?
The skills available are geared towards adventure.

13.) Do characters in your game advance? If so, how?
Characters do gain XPs, these can be used to improve skills and the character's Talent. There is also advancement through other means as well.

14.) How does the character advancement (or lack thereof) reinforce what your game is about?
Advancement is tailored towards each charcer's Talent, Skills and goals.

15.) What sort of product or effect do you want your game to produce in or for the players?
The ultimate goal is fun through storytelling. With a hopeful intent of challenging player's stereotypes.

16.) What areas of your game receive extra attention and color? Why?
Magic, Prayer and Mystic Techniques. They form the metaphysical basis for the universe of Lanasia.

17.) Which part of your game are you most excited about or interested in? Why?
The Talent system, it is unique, creative and well designed.

18.) Where does your game take the players that other games can't, don't, or won't?
Characters are entitled to be heroes from day one.

19.) What are your publishing goals for your game? Who is your target audience?
Ultimately to publish this game for profit to players. I do not know much about marketing. As soon as I can get a handle on it, I will try to target my audience.

I hope this will be enlightening.

[Ron Edwards]

Never post again to a closed thread. I have split this post into a thread of its own, but I could just as easily have sent it to the Inactive File. Next post of your that defies my moderation will indeed go there, and possibly any further posts regardless of content.

Discussion of Legends of Lanasia is welcome to continue here.

Best,
Ron

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya,

It is enlightening, Dave.  Now let me ask you one more question.  Is there any part of your game you are currently looking for feedback on?  Are there any questions you answered in the Power 19 that you are unsure about or want some help on?

Peace,

-Troy

[dindenver]

Hi!
  Well, actually one thing is bothering me, I think I have a handle on the why, but I am not sure if/how to fix it.
  In play test, players are having a REAL hard time choosing a Talent. It's the last step in chargen, By this time, the concept of their character should be solid. .They should have fleshed out their character's history and background, abilities, skills and even filled in some details about their personality.
  Still, players are at a loss as to what makes their character special.
  Part of the problem is I have a couple of "casual gamers" that enjoy our group and like playing, but haven't gotten "into" the game world. But even dedicated players are a little overwhelmed. I asked one of the players to tell me what problem they were having. He said the problem was that he did not know the mechanics well enough to pick "the right" one.
  So, I have some issue to sort out:
   1) Is this a problem?
   2) Is it a problem with the system or the players?
   3) What's the solution? How do I fix the Talent stumbling block without pushing the reader into some kind of pigeon-hole?
  Any suggestions would be appreciated!

[Michael]

1) Is this a problem?

I would think so.

2) Is it a problem with the system or the players?

Maybe both. If the casual players are having trouble getting into the setting, then maybe you need to put together a little one-page-ish blurb that outlines the setting well enough to give the players an idea of what they are getting into.

Of course, that comment from the last player (about making the "right" choices) sounds a little metagamish/munchkiny. If so, he's not going to be happy until he figures out the system and how to exploit its weaknesses (which is great for system playtesting, but not for running an actual game). If not, maybe he is also having problems wrapping his head around the setting and figuring out where the PCs are going to fit into it.

3) What's the solution? How do I fix the Talent stumbling block without pushing the reader into some kind of pigeon-hole?

What are the mechanics behind the Talent system? What about it allows characters to make "unique" characters? How about a couple sample Talents and effects? It's hard to give advice on a fix if one doesn't really know what one is trying to fix.

[Nathan]

A suggested solution to the Talent problem:

You might try making the Talent one of the first decisions in character creation, including it in sort of the concept of the character from the outset.

If selecting a Talent is such a big problem, maybe it should be incorporated into the basic idea/concept of the character -- in other words, you build the character around the Talent.

[joepub]

Of course, that comment from the last player (about making the "right" choices) sounds a little metagamish/munchkiny. If so, he's not going to be happy until he figures out the system and how to exploit its weaknesses

Just to clarify this point:
That player was me, and I was not intending it in a metagamey way.

What I meant was that because I had a limited understanding of how task resolution worked in LoL, I didn't know how these talents would come into play. I felt like I didn't know what substituting Tactics for Luck would play out like in an ingame situation.

I think the problem, if it is indeed a problem, is that talents are very hinged on replacing different ingame values, at a very "technical" level. It made it hard to understand the practical implications of my choice.


Because talents are "what makes my character unique", understanding my choice was crucial, IMO.

[dindenver]

Hi!
  OK, it's a littl long, but here goes:

Talents

  Use your imagination to devise a new Talent that best describes their character's special qualities. Talents cannot be added to skill rolls. Not even indirectly like adding to an attack roll. Talents cannot add to Abilities either. Below we will describe each of the current Talent mechanics:

Skill Replacement
  Instead of rolling using one of the listed skills, you will roll using the Talent. These Talents should be specialized versions of existing skills (fencing for instance). In order to balance these Talents, it is necessary to allow players to add the Skill Modifiers for two abilities (Strength and Prowess for instance) and the Talent should count as two points of skill for each level of Talent. Finally, the Talent roll should be modified based on the following table:
Talent Scope Modifier
Specialized (Talent can only be used in limited situations)   Roll, plus two Ability Skill Mods, plus two times the Talent, Talent can also negate one group of skill penalties up to the level of the Talent
Broad (Talent is limited, but could still be worked into many situations)   Roll, plus two Ability Skill Mods, plus two times the Talent, Talent can also negate one specific skill penalty up to the level of the Talent
General (Talent can be used in almost any situation)   Roll, plus two Ability Skill Mods, plus two times the Talent, no other special modifiers
Note: Consider the scope of the Talent from the perspective of the character's profession. For instance, Fencing might be specialized for a Librarian and General for a Mercenary.
Example: Fencing – This Talent comes into play any time a character is wielding a sword in combat (Melee or Slashing swords included). For most characters, this would be considered Broad. So the character would roll two dice, add their Prowess and Perception Skill Modifiers and two times their Fencing Talent. Since this is a Broad Talent, the character can also negate Initiative Penalties up to an amount equal to their Talent.

Re-Rolls
  The level of your Talent will allow a specific number of re-rolls to an existing skill over a specific amount of time. Typically this type of Talent allows one re-roll per level of Talent per day of Game Time (the time the character experiences, not the time the player experiences). Base the way the re-rolls are handled from the following table
Talent Scope Modifier
Specialized (Talent can only be used in limited situations)   Character can use whichever roll (old or new) that is more beneficial
Broad (Talent is limited, but could still be worked into many situations)   Character must take the new roll, even if it is worse
General (Talent can be used in almost any situation)   Character must take the new roll, even if it is worse. Characters cannot re-roll Unmodified 2's
Note: Consider the scope of the Talent from the perspective of the character's profession. For instance, Pottery would be General for an Artisan and Specialized for a Librarian.
Example: Disarm – Characters use this Talent to overcome traps. Since this is so specialized, characters can re-roll any attempt to detect or disarm traps and take whichever roll is more beneficial a number of times per day equal to their Disarm Talent.

Penalty Negation
  You might be able to reduce Difficulty penalties for an existing skill, based on your level of Talent. Normally, a character can negate a number of difficulty modifiers equal to their Talent. The penalties that can be negated, depend on the scope of the Talent:
Talent Scope Modifier
Specialized (Talent can only be used in limited situations)   Characters can negate most penalties for a specific skill
Broad (Talent is limited, but could still be worked into many situations)   Characters can negate a group of penalties for a specific skill
General (Talent can be used in almost any situation)   Characters can negate a specific penalty for a specific skill
Note: Consider the scope of the Talent from the perspective of the character's profession. For instance, Authority would be General for a Constable and Specialized for a Farmer.
Example: Authority – Authority negates penalties equal to their Talent for Intimidation.

Non-Skill Roll Bonuses
  A Talent might affect things that cannot be influenced by skill rolls (Initiative for example). Use the table below to see what values can be affected by which Talents:
Talent Scope Modifier
Specialized (Talent can only be used in limited situations)   Can even be used to modify numbers that have a limited range of values (e.g., Rec or Magic Resistance)
Broad (Talent is limited, but could still be worked into many situations)   Can only be used to modify numbers that have a wide or moderate range of values (e.g., Defense or Move)
General (Talent can be used in almost any situation)   Can only be used to modify numbers that have a wide range of values (e.g., Stun or Init)
Note: Consider the scope of the Talent from the perspective of the character's profession. For instance, Dueling would be General for a Gladiator and Specialized for a Librarian.
Example: Dueling – This Talent allows the character to add their Talent to their Defense when fighting with a single one-handed weapon and no shield.

Luck Replacement
  A Talent might act like luck point in regard to an existing skill. Use the table below to determine how these pseudo-luck points can be used.
Talent Scope Modifier
Specialized (Talent can only be used in limited situations)   Character can declare how much luck is being spent before or after the dice are rolled. Each point spent turns a failure to a success or adds a number of points to the roll equal to the level of the Talent
Broad (Talent is limited, but could still be worked into many situations)   Character can declare how much luck is being spent before or after the dice are rolled
General (Talent can be used in almost any situation)   Character must declare how much luck is being spent before the dice are rolled
Note: Consider the scope of the Talent from the perspective of the character's profession. For instance, Pilot would be General for a Sailor and Specialized for a Librarian.
Example: Diplomacy – This Talent allows the character to use their Talent level as Luck points on all Persuasion rolls. This Talent is Broad, the character can decide before or after the dice are rolled.

Build and Spend
  A Talent can also work by allowing you to build special feats and then use those feats by spending points based on the level of your Talent. Magic and Prayer use a similar system.
Example: Martial Arts – This Talent replaces the unarmed skill. Character's can learn a Martial Arts attack, even if they cannot afford the Build cost of it and once they learn it, they do not forget it. Characters declaring a Martial Arts Attack Type gain a +1 Initiative. The character's attack must have a Build Cost equal to or less than your Martial Arts Talent Level. When attacking with Martial Arts, players will roll two dice, add the skill modifier for Prowess, two times their Talent and the accuracy of the Martial Arts attack used this round.
Martial Arts Build Costs
Stat----------------Base--Cost Per
Accuracy------------1-------1
Damage-------------1-------1 per 2 Damage
Shock----------------1-------1
Stun-------------------0-------1
Range Attack------No-----1
Range Increment--0-------1
Minimum Reach---1------(-1)
Maximum Reach--1-------1
Note: The Build cost is zero (0) for a base attack and reducing the values refund points (i.e., -1 Stun reduces the Build Cost by one point)
Chop
  Cost: 1
  Acc: 0
  DMG: 1
  Shock: 2
  Stun Mod: +1
  Range/Range Increment: N/A
  Min Reach: 1
  Max Reach: 1

Knuckle Punch
  Cost: 2
  Acc: 1
  DMG: 5
  Shock: 1
  Stun Mod: 0
  Range/Range Increment: N/A
  Min Reach: 1
  Max Reach: 1

Combo punch
  Cost: 3
  Acc: 1
  DMG: 3
  Shock: 2
  Stun Mod: +1
  Range/Range Increment: N/A
  Min Reach: 1
  Max Reach: 1

Jump Kick
  Cost: 4
  Acc: 2
  DMG: 3
  Shock: 1
  Stun Mod: +0
  Range/Range Increment: N/A
  Min Reach: 1
  Max Reach: 3

Qi Punch
  Cost: 5
  Acc: 1
  DMG: 1
  Shock: 5
  Stun Mod: +1
  Range/Range Increment: N/A
  Min Reach: 1
  Max Reach: 1

Tiger Claw
  Cost: 6
  Acc: 1
  DMG: 7
  Shock: 1
  Stun Mod: +1
  Range/Range Increment: N/A
  Min Reach: 1
  Max Reach: 3

Qi Kick
  Cost: 7
  Acc: 2
  DMG: 7
  Shock: 2
  Stun Mod: +1
  Range/Range Increment: N/A
  Min Reach: 1
  Max Reach: 2

Flying Jump Kick
  Cost: 8
  Acc: 1
  DMG: 5
  Shock: 3
  Stun Mod: +1
  Range/Range Increment: N/A
  Min Reach: 2
  Max Reach: 5

Vital Point
  Cost: 9
  Acc: 1
  DMG: 3
  Shock: 8
  Stun Mod: +1
  Range/Range Increment: N/A
  Min Reach: 1
  Max Reach: 1

Qi attack
  Cost: 10
  Acc: 1
  DMG: 1
  Shock: 7
  Stun Mod: +1
  Range/Range Increment: 2
  Min Reach: 1
  Max Reach: 1

  Sorry about the length.
  Also, I wasn't trying to call you out Joe and I knew you didn't mean it in a powergamer context. My guess is with Joe is that he hasn;t read much of my book and hasn't actually played yet, so the meaning of some of these potential abilities are not toally clear.
  So, this is the complete text on Talent creation. you think it needs better examples, more drive from me to get these slackers to read the book (or at least this part of it) or something else?

[Michael]

That player was me, and I was not intending it in a metagamey way.

Well that clears that up.

So, this is the complete text on Talent creation. you think it needs better examples, more drive from me to get these slackers to read the book (or at least this part of it) or something else?

I don't want to say that Talents seem clunky, but they do seem to have a broad effect on the various other game mechanics. Because of this, in order for a player to really wrap their head around a Talent, I believe they would need to understand the system pretty much in its entirety. So, keeping system as is, it might be more beneficial to spend more time orienting new players with the system.

[dindenver]

Hi!
  Michael, for pruposes of the rulebook, do you think the examples need more elaboration, or are you saying the players are not getting enough info from the GM?

[Michael]

do you think the examples need more elaboration, or are you saying the players are not getting enough info from the GM?

It could be both. I mean, I wasn't at the session so I can't say for sure how the GMing was. As for the examples, a little elaboration couldn't hurt. Perhaps if you did a sample character creation along with the text as you explain each element it would help the players with their concepts.