The Mountain Witch - Lost in the Woods

[DrVital]

I've been looking to run a "next gen rpg" for a while, and settled on "The Mountain Witch".  The book is great, but it was the posts in these very forums that allowed me to understand the subtle points of the game without having ever actually played it before.  I hope this play report is a helpful way to say thanks.

A friend of mine is leaving the country, and I wanted to have a chance to play TMW before he moved.  Having read the descriptions (and replies) on play here I decided to not try and push the whole game through in a single session, even if we weren't going to be able to complete it.  Instead I figured that it would be better to do a solid single session rather than push the game towards a broken conclusion.  That turned out to be, in retrospect, a good instinct (as you'll see. 

Character creation went pretty well.  People got their fates together quickly, although, as mentioned here, the abilities took too long.  I think that it's hard for people to get their heads around the ideas of "effects" that don't modify the die rolls in any way, but I found that leaning on the idea of powers that can do one thing got us through it fairly successfully.

Oh, and hiding the fates from the GM is pretty cool.  I really think it empowers the players, and gives them a sense that this isn't the "usual" kind of rpg right from the start, although it also led to some player's shutting down a little bit, since they didn't want to give away their fate too early.

Since I was trying to get a handle on things I started the session with a warm-up scene.  Everyone wanted to get to know how these characters had met, so instead of placing the players on the mountain I has them meet in a bar the night before and start talking.  One player rolled against the bar to see how well his gambling was going, and came away with a partial.

Leaving the Bar and heading up to camp on the slopes of Mt. Fuji I then sent some Baku into their pre-game "dream" sequence.  I actually had one Baku appear as one of the character's he had just met and accuse him of being an idiot for trusting him.  That was a little confusing, but ended up being okay...

The players began fighting to wake up from their nightmares.  Meanwhile as the characters did wake up they had to fight to fend off some wolves that had invaded the camp. 

At this point we were struggling with the system a little bit.  I was trying to get my head around the what the GM was, and wasn't,  supposed to do.  At first it was hard for me to remember that I wouldn't for narrating all the outcomes, although as soon as I started pitching it back to the players it went pretty well.

The best move I made all day was sending the player's into an enchanted wood.  I gave it a base of 3 dice (1 for the woods, 1 for the magic, and 1 for the darkness of the dense canopy).  When things slowed down there was always the wood to deal with, and it gave things a nice background tension.

One player used his power to shimmy up a tree, and he saw a glimmering lake a few miles in.  I'll also not that if you fell the need as a GM to narrate something, just don't make it a contested roll... This gave the player's a direction to head, and things got rolling.

The Wood's goal was to separate the players, and that worked out nicely.  They separated into two groups right away.  The first one found a ghost, who (after I asked) became one character's (Jiro) murdered father.  The ghost was pointing for them to go back, but couldn't speak.  The father's goal was to communicate, and Jiro wanted to find out if he really was his father's ghost.  The mixed success gave the father-ghost a partial he could use as damage.  This was nice because I described it as a disorienting blast of frustration.  When the Father got a success he told his son to go back.  (Advice he ignored.)

The group quickly got back together and tied themselves to each other with a rope.  I think that for people who are more used to traditional RPGs the idea that you can't "plan" your way out of a problem is a hard lesson to unlearn.  But their rope was no match for the haunted wood that rolled a six and separated them all from one another instantly.

This is when the system really got humming, as I started a "round the table" approach, giving each player a small scene on their own.

The first player (Shigeru) tried to find the other player's, but failed solidly (critical).  I sent him skidding down an embankment for his failure, and landed him in a puddle of mud for the extra partial.  (Damn that forest was mean!)  Sitting there he tried to get his wits together and listen for the others.  Failing at a critical again I had him have a slight fit of panic (partial), and discover that he had taken some damage in the fall he hadn't noticed at first (regular).

The other players used the time to try and find each other, but only managed to become more lost.  Heiji got trapped in a bog, and was able to use his rope and a critical success to finally free himself and start to find his friends.

Jiro tied his severed rope to a tree, figuring it would protect him.  Instead he failed his roll and got pulled toward some Tengu by the forest, Evil Dead style.

At this point Shigeru, covered in mud, ended up discovering one of the other Samurai who had once been a part of his household.  This Ronin now worked for the mountain witch and began to offer Shigeru a job.  Sato made his discovery roll and came upon the scene.  He immediately attacked and manged to get in a flesh wound.  Angered, the Witch's samurai began to taunt them both, laughing at how far he the mud drenched Shigeru had fallen, literally and figuratively.

During this battle the players began to see the power of working together.  Something clicked and the battle turned quickly from a slow death by a thousand cuts to a beautifully executed dual kill by both samurai.

Meanwhile, somewhere else in the forest, Jiro was having a hard time with the Tengu, although their goal was only attempting to humiliate him rather than killing him.  Jiro rolled a partial success, and then began to narrate the Tengu in a totally different way then I had planned.  That was a really surprising moment for me.  It was also when I realized that I was just as beholden to his narration as he was to mine.  In some ways I think that this was the moment things really clicked for me that this wasn't what I was used to either.

Heiji made his discover roll and helped him to attack the Tengu.  They were angry demons but no match for my player's new understanding of the system.

At this point everyone was getting tired and had been pretty beaten up.  I ended the chapter and let them juggle their Trust.  I used the hidden allocation rules, and nobody gave anyone trust who hadn't helped them out at least a little.

After another failed attempt for the two groups to find each other I had the forest itself attempt to lead them to the next Bang I had planned, the lake in the middle of the forest.  The forest got only partials, and one group (Shigeru and Sato) made a fire and sat down for the night.  The other pushed forward and found the lake.

Since I knew by this point that Heiji had the romance fate I figured he'd dig the Bang I'd made for that.  A "Ghost Woman" living in the hut at the center of the lake. Jiro, who by this time was using his fate powers at every opportunity, pointed out that the hut had once belonged to his uncle before their family had been run off these lands.  Once again I found myself wanting to do it "my way" and finding out the system wasn't going to let me.

But in the end, although the player's found it amusing, I felt that the bitter ghost (who had murdered her husband after he had killed her lover) fell flat in comparison to the eerie malevolence of the forest itself.  I got in some fun acting, but the players were beginning to fade.

Sensing the end of the game was near Shigeru really wanted to stir things up.  He kept looking for a way to gain an advantage over Sato while he slept.  "Can I steal his sword?"

"Yes, but it'll make no difference to the actual roll he makes if and when you fight."

He wondered if he could to use the Ai-Uchi and take himself and the other player out with a Double Success.  I didn't allow it.

Instead he woke Sato up, and admitted to him Sato's master had killed his lord, and now he wanted revenge.  I told Sato he didn't have to go this way, but He went for it, and we discovered he had secretly allowed his lord to be assassinated by his son.

[Halzebier]

Oh, and hiding the fates from the GM is pretty cool.  I really think it empowers the players, and gives them a sense that this isn't the "usual" kind of rpg right from the start, although it also led to some player's shutting down a little bit, since they didn't want to give away their fate too early.

That's interesting. Maybe I'll try that on my second run.

The Wood's goal was to separate the players, and that worked out nicely.

This sounds great & I'm kicking myself for not having separated the PCs in my game so far. But I'll definitely make this the goal of some effect up ahead (maybe an avalanche).

He wondered if he could to use the Ai-Uchi and take himself and the other player out with a Double Success.  I didn't allow it.

Could you tell us why not? It's allowed by the rules, AFAIK, but I can imagine good reasons to intervene, so what were yours?

Thank you for excellent your write-up - I've been hunting down TMW threads in the last couple of weeks and yours adds a few fresh things.

Regards

Hal

[timfire]

Sorry, for the late reply!

People got their fates together quickly, although, as mentioned here, the abilities took too long.  I think that it's hard for people to get their heads around the ideas of "effects" that don't modify the die rolls in any way, but I found that leaning on the idea of powers that can do one thing got us through it fairly successfully.

Yeah, I'm thinking of putting up some more examples on my web page, since this continues to be a problem area. But really, I think this seems like more of a problem than it really is, 'cause the rest of chargen is so quick.

Oh, and hiding the fates from the GM is pretty cool.  I really think it empowers the players, and gives them a sense that this isn't the "usual" kind of rpg right from the start, although it also led to some player's shutting down a little bit, since they didn't want to give away their fate too early.

Do you mind elaborating on this a bit? What happened specifically? I haven't had anyone shut down, but sometimes it takes people a while to decide what they want to do.

At this point we were struggling with the system a little bit.  I was trying to get my head around the what the GM was, and wasn't,  supposed to do.

Did you feel that you got it by the end of the session? If yes, was there any point where you felt that it clicked? The game really does have a learning curve, despite how simple the mechanics are.

The best move I made all day was sending the player's into an enchanted wood.

The forest definitely sounded cool. In particular, the stuff you did with the Father and the Witch's samurai seemed liked really good situations, bang-wise. How did the players react to these situations compared some of the other situations?

During this battle the players began to see the power of working together.  Something clicked and the battle turned quickly from a slow death by a thousand cuts to a beautifully executed dual kill by both samurai.

Yes, most of the time players start the game thinking they can do it on their own. But after a fight or two some really dramatic success happens and they suddenly realize how powerful Aiding is.

Jiro rolled a partial success, and then began to narrate the Tengu in a totally different way then I had planned.  That was a really surprising moment for me.  It was also when I realized that I was just as beholden to his narration as he was to mine.

Yep, that's why I love sharing narration. I was speaking with Ron, and he commented that games like tMW that share narration end up with more fantastic imagery and events than games where narration falls primary on one person, as everyone brings in their own ideas to the table. People don't get tired as quickly and everyone plays off of each other's narration.

Sensing the end of the game was near Shigeru really wanted to stir things up.  He kept looking for a way to gain an advantage over Sato while he slept.  "Can I steal his sword?"

"Yes, but it'll make no difference to the actual roll he makes if and when you fight."

He wondered if he could to use the Ai-Uchi and take himself and the other player out with a Double Success.  I didn't allow it.

You could have narrated the sword stealing as damage, if you had wanted. That would have given Shigeru an advantage, though Sato could continue fighting. The Double Success Ai-Uchi is also totally acceptable. That's one of the reason I wrote those rules, for just that situation. It's a totally samurai thing to do, to give one's life for the success of your goals.
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BTW, have both of you guys checked out my website recently? I've begun posting clarifications on the text. I've also put up a page with reviews and actual play, and I just about every actual play account I know of linked on the site.

[Eero Tuovinen]

People got their fates together quickly, although, as mentioned here, the abilities took too long.  I think that it's hard for people to get their heads around the ideas of "effects" that don't modify the die rolls in any way, but I found that leaning on the idea of powers that can do one thing got us through it fairly successfully.

Yeah, I'm thinking of putting up some more examples on my web page, since this continues to be a problem area. But really, I think this seems like more of a problem than it really is, 'cause the rest of chargen is so quick.

Well, in my experience the problem is indeed with balancing an useful ability - it's not overtly simple, when you have to ensure that the ability is qualitative (not just "better than others at something") and useful as well. Perhaps the best method is to emphasize the role of abilities in differentiating characters, and make a point of taking it as your job as GM to make the abilities useful. In other words, let the players just free-associate the first three things that pop to mind about their character, and run it by others to make sure they're OK with the one character having that distinction.

For example: in the game I ran one player wanted to have a horse as one of his abilities. The way I see it, this implies that the other characters can't have horses, should that become relevant. With the same logic you can make a wide range of abilities work ("Smart? OK, but only if the other players want to not be."), as long as you the GM can craft a situation where the ability becomes relevant. I'd even go as far as to suggest that the GM prepare one scene per ability in play when prepping, just to make sure he has the environs for the abilities to possibly matter. Especially if there's stuff like "Tea Ceremony expertise" on the sheets.

But yes, I definitely favor a list of example abilities. That's useful for character ideas, setting information and possible challenges. I wouldn't be averse to giving a table to roll on, even; in my mind it's more important that the characters have abilities, not that they're necessarily very thought out. Could be interesting to take three random abilities and build your character around them...

Sensing the end of the game was near Shigeru really wanted to stir things up.  He kept looking for a way to gain an advantage over Sato while he slept.  "Can I steal his sword?"

"Yes, but it'll make no difference to the actual roll he makes if and when you fight."

He wondered if he could to use the Ai-Uchi and take himself and the other player out with a Double Success.  I didn't allow it.

You could have narrated the sword stealing as damage, if you had wanted. That would have given Shigeru an advantage, though Sato could continue fighting. The Double Success Ai-Uchi is also totally acceptable. That's one of the reason I wrote those rules, for just that situation. It's a totally samurai thing to do, to give one's life for the success of your goals.

Of sword-stealing: taking it as damage is a great idea, I wouldn't probably have realized that myself. Here's how I'd do it:

The fundamental maxim is that it's winning (narrating) player who decides whether he wants a fact or damage. The two are complementary, dissimilar effects, but equal in the eyes of the rules. Sword-stealing as damage is pretty simple, it lowers the effectiveness of the character more or less, depending on how dependent he is on his sword (that is, how large was the success). Taking it as a fact, however, is even more powerful: now there is the fact of him being disarmed against any conflict stakes the player wants to initiate, disallowing him from a range of goals - if one character didn't have a sword and others did, I'd say the character can't participate in duels or take aggressive goals in a fight, for instance. First he has to get a weapon from somewhere. It's exactly the same is the character didn't have wings: you can't fly without your wings, you can't fight without your sword. TMW does not support quantitative penalties, but it certainly handles qualitative conditions, as the fact mechanics and character ability mechanics assest.

Facts, despite seeming otherwise, can be a powerful tool in the game, because they have the conflict system backing them; you can't just narrate the nullification of a fact established by the conflict system right afterwards. And because the characters are always limited by their immediate environs in establishing stakes in conflicts, you can effectively cordon your opponent by establishing suitable conditions through previous conflicts or otherwise. This is related to the infamous parable of The Tengu and The Bow, wherein the brave ronin is at an advantage due to having a condition of ranged weapon on his side against the staff of the tengu - the tengu can't attack and cause damage, because he isn't close enough. Being that outside conflict the tengu can't very well get close (assuming the ronin resists), he has to go into a conflict over gaining the distance, allowing the bowman a "free attack" opportunity before closing in. Similarly, a man without a sword has to first disarm his opponent or gain a sword himself, before getting on with the killing. (The simplistic equation of no sword = inability to fight is implied by the decision to take the fact instead of damage; because we assume losing the sword has to matter somehow, it's natural to assume that this is it; if a player is not convinced that losing the sword makes dueling impossible, he should take the damage instead. The TMW system recognizes only absolutely qualitative facts and absolutely quantitative damage penalties; there is no such thing as a penalty focused to one domain, like sword-fighting only. This is a feature, not a bug.)

Related to the above considerations, I've found that there is little difference between character abilities and narrated facts, because they both are by necessity system-backed conditions that affect the establishment of stakes. Thus, it's my conviction that you should be able to affect character abilities, removing, adding and changing them, through the medium of conflict facts. Thus, if a character has the ability of "Magical spear", he can lose it, should he lose a conflict with an opponent intent on stealing the spear. Likewise, a character who can speak to the dead might lose his ability through a curse or disrespecting the dead, or a character without a magical spear gain one by stealing. As character abilities and narrated facts work identically towards the conflict system (controlling certain stakes, but not imposing numerical effects) there cannot be made a difference between the two.